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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 01:12 AM
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reply to post by Hx3_1963
 


It would be awfully nice to know where we are getting all this money from. We shouldn't have ever started this bailout crap. It is becoming very clear that the only answer to any "crisis" situation has been turned into "let's throw money at it and hope it goes away."

This is not good at all, the scale of this collapse is way more than anybody has even thought of. I think it is really beyond comprehension to even begin to try to make logical reasoning out of this situation, no matter where you stand in this mess. Be it the people that orchestrated it or the person that just got wiped out.

Trying to make any kind of sense of this really makes your stomach turn.




posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 01:31 AM
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reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 
Yep I agree...Banks/Wall St hire a bunch of conceptual theoretical mathematicians to "invent" ways to create money from nothing...

None of the things they deal in has any real value at all...just a bunch of formulas playing with number...that appear to create wealth...

Jeez...let's see...

if a=1 and b=2 and c=3

c+b=a

see how that works!!!!

DOH...backwards but ya get my drift?




[edit on 3/22/2009 by Hx3_1963]



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 01:37 AM
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reply to post by Hx3_1963
 


I get it loud and clear.

Instead of 2+2=5 they have figured out a way for 2+2=20 which is 4 times the amount of the original 2+2. Taking into account that 2+2=5 to begin with.


Well one good thing is at least we have a front row seat to all the doom and gloom.


We will recover eventually, I just don't know if it will happen in our lifetimes.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 01:42 AM
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Geez...just a announcement like this will draw crowds...riot time!


G-20 Summit to Be Protected by 2,5000 Extra Police Officers, Guardian Says
www.bloomberg.com...
Police Cancel Vacations, Gird for G20 Protests, Guardian Says

Think they're expecting trouble???


(Started Thread to cover this topic)
Summit to Be Protected by 2,5000 Extra Police Officers
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 3/22/2009 by Hx3_1963]



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 01:48 AM
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reply to post by Hx3_1963
 


No doubt. 2,500 is all? That is crazy.

With the way things are accelerating it wouldn't surprise me if the "summer of rage" started early.

In these times they need to be completely open and transparent. They won't be though.

The thing that worries me though is this the "decision" that Obama is going to make that is going to seem very unpopular.

With what amounts to gag gifts given to Brown and his recent outreach to Iran Obama could very well get his "mettle" tested behind close doors and what could amount to the most important meeting in current history.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 02:02 AM
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My analysis:

My analysis:

So this weekend there has been positive news (bank plan will be released next week) and negative news.

The bank plan is of course good news. I don't think there will be many surprises in the plan that the media has not already reported. One thing nobody knows is, what is the government going to demand in exchange for being so generous? My guess is that politicians will be in the board rooms of these banks telling them what to do. Which is actually a large factor in why we are in this mess in the first place. The market will not look kindly on this. Also, it is now prevailing around Washington that nobody who needed aid should give out bonuses, and if they do, they should tax them extraordinarily. Again, this will not be favored in the market.

I also came across this as well. Obama has called the financial chief of Sweden who nationalized Swedish banks during their property crisis. Obama said that they may learn from the Swedish model. www.telegraph.co.uk...

Bernanke and Bair spoke to regional bankers on Friday saying that the "too big to fail" must end.

Also, legislation is being pressed through to create a government entity that seizes large institutions like the FDIC as to minimize fallout.

Linda Bair has said that she will need at least 500 billion in new funding for the FDIC.

All this is very uncertain and isn't good for the market. It seems the government is preparing to seize important institutions in the future.

Not to mention increases in credit card defaults will hurt the securities tied to such debt which are as large as mortgage securities. I think this could be contained if unemployment doesn't rise much more, but it will.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If played right, doubling-quadrupling an initial investment is easy. The problem is knowing when the short the hell out of the financials and quickly switching sides to going long



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by Hx3_1963
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 
Yep I agree...Banks/Wall St hire a bunch of conceptual theoretical mathematicians to "invent" ways to create money from nothing...

None of the things they deal in has any real value at all...just a bunch of formulas playing with number...that appear to create wealth...

Jeez...let's see...

if a=1 and b=2 and c=3

c+b=a

see how that works!!!!

DOH...backwards but ya get my drift?




[edit on 3/22/2009 by Hx3_1963]


There ya go, taking fantasy and making it reality, that's the big mistake being made. AKA Monetizing Debt.

Debt is a fantasy, printing it into reality is a mistake........



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 03:40 AM
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Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by stander
 



Dear Pause,

You are an expert on computer trading, so I hope you can help. You know that I'm not a greedy guy, but the morning was really slow, so I pushed CTRL + ALT + PAUSE and things started to move... but in a wrong direction. Do you know what keys to press to put it back?

Secrets of the trade are - you will understand - generally relayed via a nod and a wink. However you have clearly spent so much time at the keyboard that it is now only a matter of time before you happen across its lesser-known functions. The esoteric combination you seek is ALT-SHFT-MANIPULATE.


Dear Pause,

Maybe I'm blind but I just can't find the MANIPULATE key on my keypad. I got BACKSPACE, ENTER DELETE, PRTSC, SHIFT . . . but not that key you advised me to press. Maybe that's because I don't have Window Vista. Can you please find the key sequence for me to press that is good for Windows XP Home Edition?

Sincerely,
Stander



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 04:43 AM
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edition.cnn.com...

World Bank chief says stimulus plans are setting up for another financial crash and that they are comparable to "sugar highs".



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by stander

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by stander
 



Dear Pause,

You are an expert on computer trading, so I hope you can help. You know that I'm not a greedy guy, but the morning was really slow, so I pushed CTRL + ALT + PAUSE and things started to move... but in a wrong direction. Do you know what keys to press to put it back?

Secrets of the trade are - you will understand - generally relayed via a nod and a wink. However you have clearly spent so much time at the keyboard that it is now only a matter of time before you happen across its lesser-known functions. The esoteric combination you seek is ALT-SHFT-MANIPULATE.


Dear Pause,

Maybe I'm blind but I just can't find the MANIPULATE key on my keypad. I got BACKSPACE, ENTER DELETE, PRTSC, SHIFT . . . but not that key you advised me to press. Maybe that's because I don't have Window Vista. Can you please find the key sequence for me to press that is good for Windows XP Home Edition?

Sincerely,
Stander



Sorry old boy. You need a bespoke keyboard as issued to the select few only.

However, in case you may be able to procure an example via some unspecified behind-the-scenes machinations, the product in question is manufactured by Crony & Associates, Inc.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 09:39 AM
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I would like to wake up tomorrow and not have any of this to continue obsessing about but alas,not gonna' happen.


The Great Depression vs. the Great Recession(from todays NY Times):

krugman.blogs.nytimes.com...

Some of the comments after the article are also very telling.

(I"ve tried to use the ATS media thing to post graphs but it hates me,LOL!)

[edit on 22-3-2009 by irishchic]



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by irishchic
 


Nice find IC. Here it is:


Below is the change in industrial production, measured in logs, from the previous peak in 1929-30 and 2007-9.




...And here's a telling comment in the blog that follows:


Move the GR chart 6 months to the left and you have a perfect sync...



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


The money is the easiest part.. the Fed can print the money (buying treasuries) from the Treasury, the yield is effectively turned back to the treasury in some form or another, and all this money from nothing (they just tried to make it look legit. Why the Treasury doesn't just print the money I am unsure of, the Fed is very confusing) But all in all, the money is created from thin air -- hence the US Dollar dropping 25%.. the Fed buying billions of Tbills and other assets essentially means we just debased our own currency..

Which is going to piss China off like no other. (Cheaper currency is good for our corporations, bad for our citizens, but the corporations make profit converting currency).



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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You know what really breaks my stilletos?

The fact that they truly believe all of us are stupid...there is SO much damn info out there although it's really getting hard to condense and absorb so much and they just keep pulling crap.

I found this interesting:

zerohedge.blogspot.com...

"Geithner's plan is illegal because it involves the Fed and FDIC giving grants disguised as loans. The Fed and FDIC do not have legal authority to make grants, so these disguised grants are illegal. Geithner is resorting to these illegal actions because he is afraid Congress won't authorize more TARP -- ahem, grant -- money to gift on insolvent banks."

AND then this just popped up:

www.bloomberg.com...

Geithner may not "last long" as US Treasury Chief

Sooooo....who and what might be coming???



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 12:01 PM
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I have an idea.

Instead of injecting 700+ billion dollars into these banks that are loaded to the gills with toxic assets, why didn't we just take that 700+ billion dollars and start entirely new banks, that are completely free of toxic assets and let them do business?

We know for a fact that we would have a positive ROI, confidence would be somewhat restored, and credit would be able to flow again because the newly created banks have no obligations other than to make a profit.

The only problem with that though is that TPTB would have to admit that we don't have a credit flow problem, we have to much debt to begin with. Other than that I don't see why that wouldn't work.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


I was in favor of letting the bad banks go bankrupt, and giving the TARP money to healthy banks, who would have used the money to lend. Of course, this assumes that healthy banks were in existence.

There might be some reason they didn't do one of the common-sense things, and they just aren't telling us what that reason is for fear that people would freak out.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by theWCH]



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
I have an idea.

Instead of injecting 700+ billion dollars into these banks that are loaded to the gills with toxic assets, why didn't we just take that 700+ billion dollars and start entirely new banks, that are completely free of toxic assets and let them do business?

We know for a fact that we would have a positive ROI, confidence would be somewhat restored, and credit would be able to flow again because the newly created banks have no obligations other than to make a profit.

The only problem with that though is that TPTB would have to admit that we don't have a credit flow problem, we have to much debt to begin with. Other than that I don't see why that wouldn't work.


I think they should have taken over the bad large banks and given the money to smaller regional banks who would definitely pay us back because they have to toxic assets and they could use that money to buy up the assets of larger banks at fire sale. So then we have like 40 "large" banks instead of 8 super banks.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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Gregg: 'This country will go bankrupt'
politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...

WASHINGTON (CNN) – Even though he was almost a member of the new Obama administration, New Hampshire Republican Judd Gregg Sunday slammed President Obama’s approach to handling the country’s fiscal outlook.

Watch: Gregg warns of fiscal 'crash'

“The practical implications of this is bankruptcy for the United States,” Gregg said of the Obama’s administration’s recently released budget blueprint. “There’s no other way around it. If we maintain the proposals that are in this budget over the ten-year period that this budget covers, this country will go bankrupt. People will not buy our debt, our dollar will become devalued. It is a very severe situation.”

Gregg, known as one of the keenest fiscal minds on Capitol Hill, also told CNN Chief National Correspondent John King that he thought it was “almost unconscionable” for the White House to continue with its planned course on fiscal matters with unprecedented actual and projected budget deficits in the coming years.

“It is as if you were flying an airplane and the gas light came on and it said ‘you 15 minutes of gas left’ and the pilot said ‘we’re not going to worry about that, we’re going to fly for another two hours.’ Well, the plane crashes and our country will crash and we’ll pass on to our kids a country that’s not affordable.”


Despite his criticism of Obama’s approach to the long-term finances of the country, Gregg praised how Obama’s top economic lieutenants are trying to get the sick banking system back to health.

“They’re doing the right things,” Gregg said about embattled Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and White House economic adviser Larry Summers. “They haven’t done it as definitely as they should have . . . but they are moving in the right direction and the Fed is moving in the right direction,” Gregg said on CNN’s State of the Union.

Gregg broke ranks with some of his fellow Republicans and said he did not think Geithner should step down from his Cabinet post.

On the recent scandal of more than $150 million in bonuses paid to the AIG employees whose work pushed the financial giant to the brink of collapse, Gregg criticized the plan afoot on Capitol Hill to tax those bonuses at very high rates. But, Gregg pointed out that the Obama administration and, to some extent, the Bush administration before it failed to “discipline” the bonuses paid out by AIG, which is now 80 percent owned by the federal government.

The Republican senator was appointed to be Obama’s Commerce Secretary but then bowed out unexpectedly, citing policy differences with the Democratic administration.
...And this guy was on the inside...

They better hope this last hurrah works...if not...

Can any say/fix "Chow Mein?"


PRECIOUS-Gold down as Chinese dealers sell, ETF at record
www.reuters.com...

SINGAPORE, March 20 (Reuters) - Gold crept down on Friday as dealers in China and Southeast Asia booked profits, taking advantage of bullion's rise to a near three-week high a day earlier, but a holiday in Japan may keep volumes thin.

As the dollar heads for its biggest weekly fall in 24 years and holdings of the largest gold-backed exchange-traded fund hit a record, traders said sentiment remained strong as investors scrambled for safe-haven assets.

"Some physical selling from China and Southeast Asia came in this morning," said a Hong Kong-based trader. "They found the price close to $960 a good level to sell a few positions."

Another trader echoed gold's safe-harbour allure at a time of wavering risk appetite, saying: "People are still not confident about investing in stocks. They have nowhere to go."

Spot gold was trading at $956.30 an ounce by 0540 GMT, down from New York's notional close of $958.60. Earlier in the day, it was down as much as 1 percent. On Thursday, gold hit $961.50 an ounce, its loftiest level since Feb. 27.

Gold is down 5 percent from its 11-month high above $1,000 struck in February after investors booked profits and sales of scraps intensified as holders sold back jewellery and coins for cash. It hit a record of $1,030.80 last March.

Bullion rose 3 percent this week, largely supported by the weakening dollar after the Fed said it planned to buy long-dated U.S. Treasuries along with U.S. mortgage and agency debt in a big way, the central bank's most aggressive purchase since the early 1960s. [ID:nN18343369]

Reflecting gold's continued popularity, the SPDR Gold Trust GLD said its holdings rose to a record 1,103.29 tonnes by March 19, up 18.96 tonnes, or 1.7 percent, from the previous day. [GOL/SPDR]

For a graphic on the SPDR holdings, click: here

"The ETF trend -- successive records and that too very frequently -- is a clear indication that sentiment is strong and will remain strong in the near term," said another Hong Kong-based trader.

"Some physical selling took place but gold looks like one of the safest assets at the moment. And the dollar weakness is a key factor."
More at Link...

Very interesting...another move at beating down Gold for a future by back???

[edit on 3/22/2009 by Hx3_1963]



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 
That chart reminds me of the one I was using to gauge the current market to the '29-'32 market...

Seems we're not the only ones seeing a definite correlation...


BTW: Did you ever pass on my keyboard function combinational solution to Stander?


[edit on 3/22/2009 by Hx3_1963]



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by Hx3_1963
reply to post by pause4thought
 
That chart reminds me of the one I was using to gauge the current market to the '29-'32 market...

Seems we're not the only ones seeing a definite correlation...



No, it seems like we're quickly moving away from the fringe and becoming the majority view. Erin Burnett was on Meet The Press this morning, saying that the days of "three cars in every driverway" are gone -- forever. It caught me off guard, given the fact that her job is basically to keep people investing in the stock market.




[edit on 22-3-2009 by theWCH]




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