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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:08 AM
reply to post by redhatty

You're a donor right Red?

I would imagine if the end of the world is coming you would be kind enough to clue us in.

The markets are starting to trend down now.

When is the Quadruple Witching taking place? That just doesn't sound good.

Also for people that don't know what Quadruple Witching is from

What Does Quadruple Witching Mean? A day on which contracts for stock index futures, stock index options, stock options and single stock futures (SSF) all expire.

Investopedia explains Quadruple Witching
This is similar to the triple witching hour, except that the quadruple witching hour sees also the expiry of SSFs.

[edit on 20-3-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:11 AM
I think it's fine that it shuts it down to all but the donors. I figure you guys are paying for his services. I really don't understand those people who go on TF and complain about it. I've just never seen it happen when he's not posting about indicators that the world is about to implode, so I was like: "WTF???." Thanks for the info.

[edit on 20-3-2009 by theWCH]

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:15 AM
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

Is incredible I just had to open a thread on this even when I know people will not care much about this news.

I am so upset you can not believe.

This are the banks that AIG has been funneling tax payer money, actually what they took was peanuts compare to what the did with he rest of the money.

Among the foreign recipients of U.S. taxpayer dollars are the central banks of Europe, Japan, Brazil, Australia, Canada, Denmark, England, South Korea, Mexico, New Zealand, Norway, Singapore, Switzerland and Sweden

Deutsche Bank AG of Germany received $11.8 billion in taxpayer money through AIG. France-based Societe Generale received $11.9 billion and London-based HSBC Holdings, the world’s largest banking group, received $3.5 billion.

If you noticed many of this banks are banks that the wealthiest in the nation uses to hide their fortunes to avoid paying taxes.

I wonder how many in congress have accounts with this banks

Even the most older analysts and respected financiers are talking about the reality of what is going on in this nation.

Good morning to you redhatty

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:15 AM
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

Yes I am a gold donor
I can relate info back - just not a C&P of KD's personal ticks and such, but all news, etc - I always share

So I don't think this was posted yesterday - seems to me DC is realizing that they are clueless and calling in new help..

US calls on Sweden's "Mr Fix It" Bo Lundgren

brief blurb:

The Swedish financial chief known as "Mr Fix It" has been summoned to Washington to advise on how Sweden's model might avert a global banking meltdown.

I can't knock this move - though I am a little warry of turning into a Sweden based model... But the type of socialist activities they use are not reall socialism. Here is an extremely long article about what the Swedes did, and it seems this guy knows his stuff.

Small excerpt:

So what did the Swedes do to save their banking system? More from the Governor:

The Swedish Bank Support Authority had to choose between two alternative strategies. The first method involves deferring the reporting of losses for as long as is legally possible and using the bank’s current income for a gradual write-down of the loss making assets. One advantage of this method is that it helps to avoid the bank being forced to massive sales of assets at prices below long run market values. A serious disadvantage is that the method presupposes that the bank problems can be resolved relatively quickly; otherwise the difficulties compound, leading to much greater problems when they ultimately materialise. The handling of problems among savings and loan institution in the United States in the 1980s is a case in point. With the other method, an open account of all expected losses and writedowns is presented at an early stage. This clarifies the extent of the problems and the support that is required. Provided the authorities and the banks make it credible that no additional problems have been concealed, this procedure also promotes confidence. It entails a risk of creating an exaggerated perception of the magnitude of the problems, for instance if real estate that has been taken over at unduly cautiously estimated values in a market that is temporarily depressed. This can lead, for instance, to borrowers in temporary difficulties being forced to accept harsher terms, which in turn can result in payments being suspended.

The Swedish authorities opted for the second method: disclose expected loan losses and assign realistic values to real estate and other assets. This method was consistent with other basic principles for the bank support, such as the need to restore confidence. Looking back, it can be said that in general the level of valuation was realistic.

More on the IndyMac losses: &dist=hplatest]FDIC sells IndyMac at $10.7 bln loss

[edit on 3/20/09 by redhatty]

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:35 AM
reply to post by redhatty

We know you do Red, just trying to lighten up the mood a little bit.

Swedish Banking model eh? Hrmm, Although calling in outside help could be considered a good thing, I don't think it relays the right messages to our creditors.

Oh, well I guess they are willing to grasp at any straws they possibly can at this point, it isn't like the Fed, in desperation is currently printing 1.15 Trillion in paper.

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:39 AM
Well hey - Timmy doesn't have a staff - then again Neither does Obama - at least not a full staff, but he can go do town halls in CA and be on ESPN and Leno.... He has such important things to do

Like Snub Israel while Iran extends invitations


the leeches are attacking each other - gotta recoup the loss of bonuses somehow, huh?

AIG Sues Countrywide for Misrepresenting Mortgages

An American International Group Inc. unit sued Countrywide Financial Corp., accusing the mortgage lender of misrepresenting the underwriting standards of loans the AIG subsidiary insured.

“As a result of the unprecedented number of defaults in the mortgage loans, United Guaranty has already paid out insurance claims totaling over $30 million and is exposed to additional claims of several hundred million dollars more,” AIG’s United Guaranty Mortgage Indemnity Co. said today in a complaint filed in federal court in Los Angeles.

Countrywide, bought last year by Bank of America Corp., sought insurance for the subprime mortgage loans to increase the credit ratings of mortgage-backed securities in which the loans were bundled, according to the complaint. Countrywide falsely claimed the loans were originated in strict compliance with its underwriting standards, the AIG unit said.

United Guaranty said in the complaint that it had reviewed loan files that showed that most mortgages covered by 11 policies for asset-backed securities were either underwritten in violation of Countrywide’s own guidelines or contained defects, such as missing documents, misrepresented credit scores or false social security numbers.

Shirley Norton, a Bank of America spokeswoman, declined to comment on the complaint.

New York-based AIG has received $173 billion in taxpayer money since September and the U.S. government has taken a stake of almost 80 percent to prevent the insurer from collapsing. Some of the bailout funds went to banks that bought or traded credit-default swaps with AIG.

The case is United Guaranty Mortgage Indemnity Co. v. Countrywide Financial Corp., 09-01888, U.S. District Court, Central District of California (Los Angeles.)

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:40 AM
reply to post by marg6043

Oh I'm sure there are a few in our gov are billionaires at this point.

It is all ridiculous. I hope people wake up, but it isn't looking good right now.

[edit on 20-3-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:43 AM
Financials are getting killed now:

BAC -11%
WFC -7%
C +1% (after being up 7%)
JPM -6%

Let's see if Bernanke's testimony helps markets any.

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:49 AM
reply to post by marg6043

Bernanke currency swaps Marg - controversial. Foreign banks need $ to cover dollar denominated debts. Consider that these debts include black-hole derivatives contracts involving US counterparties - and the rationale becomes transparent.

Put/call ratio doesn't favor share strength moving forward - but the positive bias from expiry creates a bit of noise here. My estimation - the market turns south - this afternoon - maybe Monday. For example, the 10 day C rally has more gaps than a picket fence - and as they say - gaps will be filled be filled

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:53 AM
reply to post by redhatty

Wow, talk about trying to shuffle blame.

I don't see how we are going to ever recover while these idiots are allowed to run the financial institutions of our country. The only thing they should be running is around the yard in the federal penitentiary.

What it really seems like is that the the banks that got bailout money see massive class action lawsuits in their futures. I know if I got foreclosed on my home and the mortgage holder was one of these failed banks that would violate the good-faith clause, such as you entered into this contract in good faith that the creditor will be able uphold this agreement as well as the debtor.

Then again most people that are that smart aren't being foreclosed on their homes.

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:54 AM
reply to post by OBE1

OBE1 I see it a he biggest transfer of wealth that this nation have ever seen and the expenses of tax payer.

Nobody can audit those crocks on the federal Reserve, nobody can get any information on what they are doing but the same stupid rhetoric that that zomby face of Bernanke comes out to tell congress and the public every so often.

He holds the strings and he will pull them until this nations fall on its arse.

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:55 AM
Morning Marg
Saw that after you bolded it
Not enough coffee yet!

Okay didn't see Hx3 post it - but he sent it to me, so I'll get it up for him...

SEC probes insider trading at subprime lenders

Can I get an "It about time?"

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:02 AM
reply to post by redhatty

It is about time.

What is taking the feds so long to open up these investigations. 6 months ago they were talking about how we are going to be seeing people taking perp walks. But yet no signs of anything, except some, what I consider, PR news about the SEC investigating insider trading.

More distractions is all I see. They need to go into Citi, BofA, AIG, etc and seize the accounting departments.

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:06 AM
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

TY Hastobe

Hmm more games on the trade war front?

China says WTO report mostly rejects U.S. piracy case

China said a World Trade Organization report approved Friday rejected the majority of intellectual property complaints made by the United States and broadly backed Beijing's stance against commercial piracy.

China's Ministry of Commerce also said the expert group report approved by a WTO dispute settlement body in Geneva "stressed that its findings did not affect China's right to censor content."

"The expert group report rebutted the great majority of the U.S. side's claims and broadly vindicated China's intellectual property system," spokesman Yao Jian said in the statement issued on the ministry's website (

The WTO ( has not yet formally issued this latest report in the groundbreaking commercial piracy case brought by Washington against Beijing.

Washington may not share the view that the latest findings in the case are a defeat.

The United States launched the case in 2007 out of frustration at rip-offs of films, branded goods and other trademarked property openly available in Chinese cities.

The International Intellectual Property Alliance, a coalition of U.S. entertainment and software industry groups, has claimed piracy in China costs them billions of dollars in lost sales.

In January, Washington claimed victory so far in the case, accusing China of failing to protect and enforce copyrights and trademarks. It said a WTO panel found shortcomings in Beijing laws and policies "incompatible with its WTO obligations."

But the Chinese-language statement from Beijing said many of its arguments against the U.S. complaints were accepted by the WTO expert group.

The expert group found the U.S. failed to prove Chinese thresholds for prosecuting intellectual property offences did not satisfy the WTO rules, according to the Chinese statement.

The statement said the panel also found that while China's practice of merely stripping illegal markings off counterfeit imports violated those rules, the U.S. side was unable to prove that giving the goods to charities or selling them off itself violated the rules.

The United States said in January the WTO dispute settlement panel found China broke the rules by barring copyright protection for movies, music and books not approved by state censors for legitimate sale.

China's Ministry of Commerce said the group found that while it should extend such protection to works rejected by censors, that obligation did not extend to works not submitted to censors, awaiting their assessment, or not amended as demanded by them.

Or is it a he said she said game??

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:07 AM
reply to post by redhatty

No problema, I need some more coffee but I am running on adrenaline right now with all the news and deceit coming from our government and the fed.

Is incredible all the so call Stimulus for the financial was nothing but a big pay off and a scam.

No wonder the stimulus has not stimulated anything but some fat rats pockets.

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:14 AM
Ya Gotta Love The Title

Goldman Sachs, Welfare Queen

Sort excerpt:

While it was singed in the credit meltdown, Goldman Sachs, the alpha male of Wall Street, has emerged as a survivor. The cover of last week's Barron's heralded the resurrection of Goldman and Morgan Stanley—"the sole standouts," as Andrew Bary called them. The company's shares have rallied back above $100, and its market capitalization is nearly $47 billion. Goldman's emergence from the wreckage could be seen as yet another glorious chapter for the firm. Charles Ellis, in his book about Goldman, The Partnership, lionized the firm as the only company "with such strengths that it operates with almost no external constraints in virtually any financial market it chooses, on the terms it chooses, on the scale it chooses, when it chooses, and with the partners it chooses." For the paperback, Ellis might want to add the following proviso: so long as the government is willing to give it billions of dollars.

People sometimes refer to the firm as Government Sachs because so many of its former employees wind up in high positions in Washington (Robert Rubin, Henry Paulson, etc.). But the sobriquet sticks today because the company is heavily reliant on the government for support. Tally up the various forms of direct and indirect taxpayer assistance Goldman has received in the last several months, and it turns out that you and I are providing billions of dollars to bail out the proud firm. The former undisputed heavyweight champion of the financial services sector has become one of New York's biggest welfare queens.

GE shares down as analysts cut profit views

General Electric Co (GE.N) shares fell 4 percent on Friday as analysts lowered their 2009 profit forecasts for the U.S. conglomerate, a day after a marathon six-hour briefing on GE's financing unit.

"Deteriorating macroeconomic conditions globally, including rising unemployment, bankruptcies and illiquid credit markets, could easily derail GE's current plans, provisions and reserves," wrote Steven Winoker, analyst with BernsteinResearch.

BernsteinResearch now expects the financing unit, GE Capital, to record a loss of $1 billion this year, more than offset by a profit of $9.6 billion from GE's industrial and media businesses. He cut his 2009 earnings target for GE to 81 cents a share from $1.18.

BernsteinResearch cut its target price on GE shares to $12 from $14.

more at link

Commentary, but well worth the read Accounting Brothel Opens Doors for Banker Fiesta

[edit on 3/20/09 by redhatty]

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:21 AM

Can we bail out of the bailouts?
What if we let companies that are 'too big to fail' do just that?

NEW YORK - What if the U.S. government got out of the bailout business?

The idea certainly seemed all right with throngs of Americans who were outraged by news that American International Group paid out millions of dollars in executive bonuses after it was rescued with taxpayer cash.

But would no bailout be even worse? Financial analysts and federal officials have warned that doing nothing to save AIG — or banks or the auto industry — would be a catastrophe, an economic domino effect of bank losses, stock market chaos and job cuts. No one — at least no one in the government — has the stomach for that.

Here's what might happen if companies deemed "too big to fail" were allowed to do just that.
More at Link...

In new dilemma, banks cite 2 paths to disaster
Whether they OK payout restrictions or return aid, execs warn of problems

WASHINGTON - Some bank executives warned yesterday that the government is forcing them toward a disastrous choice between accepting restrictions on compensation that could cripple their ability to compete with rivals, or returning billions in federal aid, which could retard lending and damage the economy.

The possibility of a newly weakened banking industry also raised concerns among businesses in the wider economy that already are struggling to find financial firms willing to lend them needed money.

"We're all going to lose on this thing," said an executive at a large bank that took federal aid. He and other bankers expressed shock at the rapid progress of legislation that could impose large pay cuts on thousands of workers, and dismay that the industry is at the mercy of an angry Congress.
More at Link...
Dow Jones Industrial Average 7,403.03 11:19am ET 2.23 (0.03%)
S&P 500 INDEX,RTH 780.75 11:19am ET -3.29 (-0.42%)

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:23 AM
Strong words from Russia

USA has two options to save its economy: declare default or trigger off war

The United States is the largest borrower in the world. The US national debt has already exceeded the level of 11 trillion dollars as of the beginning of 2009 and continues to grow like an avalanche. Experts say that the USA has only two ways to solve the problem: to either declare default or trigger off a war.

According to experts’ estimates, the probability of default on US treasury bonds is very high at the moment. The rumors are not new at all. Moreover, experts say that the USA has already started to work on an opportunity to refuse from the dollar in order to avoid debt payments.

Dmitry Abzalov, an expert with the Center for Russia ’s Political Conjuncture, said that governments currently take on the debts of corporations. “The corporate debts crisis thus becomes the crisis of governmental debts. The US debt in the beginning of 2009 amounted to $10.6 trillion. Taking into consideration the current deficit budget of the United States , as well as the prospects for the deficit of the budget during the current year, it becomes clear that the US Treasury bond market is based on no alternative whatsoever. There is no other way for investors to invest their funds with treasury bonds being the only option,” the expert told

When the world economy recovers, investors will realize that there are plenty of other opportunities for investments, the European bonds, for example (if the European economy recovers from the crisis too, of course), or the bonds of developing countries.

“The pyramid of US bonds will collapse in this case. The debt percentage grows every day, which makes the USA borrow more and more on a daily basis. America will have no chances to pay off the debt,” the expert said.

Inga Foksha, an analyst with Aton Investment Company, agrees that the US default is quite possible, although she is certain that it will not happen unless the world finds an alternative to the US dollar. The dollar will collapse immediately in case of default, which is absolutely unacceptable, because 63 percent of world reserves are saved in dollars. Their collapse will trigger the global economic collapse.

“Technically, the default of the United States may occur during three or five years, although it is too early to say that it could be possible. The USA can print new dollars to pay their debts with them,” she said.

Nevertheless, the US government bonds still enjoy investors’ support and are still considered a risk-free investment.

Dmitry Abzalov believes that the current situation with the US national debt may end with a new war. The war will destroy excessive liquidity and the current debt.

“The war in Iraq began to delay the US crisis, which started brewing in the US economy at the end of 2000,” he said.

The Americans have been trying to raise their economy with the help of military actions for decades, since the Great Depression of the 1930s. A war boosts the nation’s industry, even if a recovery is based on defense orders.

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:38 AM

“The war in Iraq began to delay the US crisis, which started brewing in the US economy at the end of 2000,” he said.

The Americans have been trying to raise their economy with the help of military actions for decades, since the Great Depression of the 1930s. A war boosts the nation’s industry, even if a recovery is based on defense orders.

There's growing sentiment in maco-econ circles that this whole "war is good for an economy" hypothesis is flat-out wrong. The Depression didn't end with WWII, they contend, and the multiplier for defense spending is less than 1. If our world leaders think that war=good, and the reality is that war=bad, then we've got a big problem. I feel slightly ill.

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:45 AM

Probes of AIG Bonuses Started by Officials in New Jersey, 18 Other States

March 20 (Bloomberg) -- Nineteen states including New Jersey began an investigation of bonuses paid by American International Group Inc. as Connecticut subpoenaed the insurer and Congress took steps to recover the funds.

New Jersey Attorney General Anne Milgram said she sent a letter to AIG Chief Executive Officer Edward Liddy demanding a list of employees in the AIG Financial Products unit who received bonuses since September and whether they were paid with federal money. New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo said yesterday the insurer sent him such a list to comply with a subpoena.

“At this moment, with emotions running high, it is important that we proceed diligently, with care, reflection, and sober judgment,” Cuomo said in a statement.

New York-based AIG sparked a national furor by paying $165 million in bonuses last week after receiving $173 billion in federal bailout funds. The U.S. House responded to public outrage yesterday by voting to impose a 90 percent tax on employee bonuses at AIG and other companies that get at least $5 billion in taxpayer bailout funds.

The measure, approved on a 328-93 vote, would cover companies receiving 75 percent of federal bailout funds, according to the House Ways and Means Committee.

Milgram said yesterday in a statement that she asked AIG to send her the information about bonus recipients and copies of their employment contracts within five days. She was joined in the request by Arizona, Delaware, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Texas, Washington and West Virginia.

Connecticut Subpoena

Separately, Connecticut subpoenaed AIG for information on the bonus recipients, amounts and contracts. Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal said in a statement that he will “take steps to enforce” the subpoena issued by the state’s Department of Consumer Protection if AIG doesn’t promptly provide the information.

Blumenthal said in a March 18 letter to Liddy that he wants a list within three days of all bonuses paid in 2008 by AIG Financial Products, the unit that sold credit-default swaps blamed for crippling the company. The unit is based in Wilton, Connecticut.

Blumenthal said AIG was “categorically wrong when it claimed that Connecticut state labor law compelled” the payments.

Cuomo also said that he expected to receive information yesterday on $3.6 billion in bonuses paid to Merrill Lynch & Co. employees in December. Bank of America Corp., which bought Merrill Jan. 1, lost its court bid to prevent Cuomo from disclosing the recipients’ identities to the public.
Getting deeper and deeper...a new world witch hunt!!!

new topics

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