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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 11:17 AM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

Well they have rallied 300% from their lows last week...

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 11:20 AM
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor

Guys, could you please explain shortly what is going on?
First the markets plunged, raiding down fast and furious.
Last week brought recovery.
Now they are falling again…
What is the long term trend? What was the reason for these changes? And what is the forecast - should we expect things to go better or worse in near future?
I would really appreciate balanced & professional opinion, not another doom and gloom or hurray-optimism theories…

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 11:21 AM
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
Yeah I get that part...

Just it was a quick that -$30 Gold move yesterday before the Fed moves...

Between the move, talk of new reserve world currency and all these Finanical Hearings it's getting deep fast...

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 11:22 AM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

The price swing in Gold from yesterdays drop to today's prices thus far are, to me, rather amazing. Cannot remember the last time the fluctuations where so extreme in Gold prices.

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 11:23 AM
At the risk of sounding redundant:

HOW did all of this "happen" with such rapid and far-reaching results?

Every day brings out yet another layer and illegal angle that feeds off the previous one.
I feel as though I worke up one morning and it's just not been the same since.

I have read all the "NWO" threads and that "they" want to change the currency,verdict is still out on all that but the implications in the current crop of issues are mind-boggling.

Moody's May Cut 241 Bil Jumbo Mort. Debt
Defaults may be too high:

"It said 70 percent of the 2005 senior securities will likely remain investment-grade, with the rest falling to "junk." Securities issued later may suffer deeper downgrades. Moody's also said subordinated securities from 2006, 2007 and 2008 transactions "will likely be completely written down."

[edit on 19-3-2009 by irishchic]

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 11:26 AM
reply to post by Rockpuck
That was my first response also...dropped like a rock...

a reverse dislocation...sell on the on the news...

and it ain't done yet...I fear this is the start of TSHTF...

Got Newscasters about ready to fistfight...congress yelling in outrage...citizens organizing...hhhmmm...

Can anyone say "Sit-X"???

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 11:32 AM

Originally posted by twilightzone
Guys, could you please explain shortly what is going on?
First the markets plunged, raiding down fast and furious.
Last week brought recovery.
Now they are falling again…
What is the long term trend? What was the reason for these changes? And what is the forecast - should we expect things to go better or worse in near future?
I would really appreciate balanced & professional opinion, not another doom and gloom or hurray-optimism theories…

Well...there was short covering...specifically in Citi. Citi's CEO said the first 2 months were good for Citi. Ken Lewis said BAC can repay TARP at end of 2009 IF the economy is good. Both are double speak in my opinion.It was almost a coordinated attack on shorts by financials with all the good news they were pumping. But it doesn't last because it isn't based on fundamentals. If fundamentals are good, then I can see a good rally, but they aren;t. It is just some CEO's pumping stocks.

And Fed buying treasuries bring uncertainty as people do not know if they should applaud it for bringing rates down or be scared because this was such a big and urgent move.

Also options are expiring tomorrow, so option clearing houses may be shorting prices so they don't need to pay call contract buyers.

Also-the long term trend is down. Until there are good strong fundamentals that can sustain rallies. But it is a traders market, not a buy and hold market. If you want to buy and hold put money in CD's or AAA bonds and get in when everything is said and done.

Listen to Meredith Whitney and Marc Farber for some insight. They are two people who, unlike Peter Schiff, are a little more reasonable. They too have been right all the way down and are great analysts.

[edit on 19-3-2009 by RetinoidReceptor]

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 11:35 AM
reply to post by irishchic

What they are doing is creating a diversion after diversion to cover up for their next diversion...

Very soon, in my opinion, attention will be turned away from monetary issues to purely political issues (system upgrade). This means - towards more totalitarian system where "citizenship" will have a meaning different from historically inherited one. I don't see what else they can do, since they obviously cannot recreate the Golden Age which is rapidly fading away.

They are stuck, they don't have a master plan, they are patching what cannot be patched any more...

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 11:37 AM
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
Don't forget the Repo's on Government controlled company stocks...

This is intended to stop shorting...

Now Citi is saying there's a shortage of Stock to use in Employee stakes...

Getting Citi this morning was a major pain...

Euro $1.3698
GBP $1.4558

[edit on 3/19/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 11:40 AM
reply to post by DangerDeath

Thanks for this and I tend to agree.

Lots of PR: Obama on Leno tonight then again on Tues in a "State of the Nation" prime time "look at me" show!

Did you see when he spoke in CA yesterday? It was like he was JIM MORRISON or something...people were all teary-eyed and proclaiming their love.

Dirvert...scam...divert...steal...something has to give,you are right.

Too much,too fast...smokescreen to confuse.

[edit on 19-3-2009 by irishchic]

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 11:43 AM

Originally posted by Hx3_1963
Getting Citi this morning was a major pain...

Ouch, you got CITI this morning?

I am in the process of transferring my brokerage account to another firm so I haven't been trading and I was on vacation last week. I was waiting to buy BAC because I knew it would rally (and I didn't cause it happened when I was on vacation!)

Damn that vacation cost me more than meets the eye

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 11:49 AM
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor
No I missed it...was all clogged up earley this morning...

Citigroup share trading halted
Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:37am EDT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Trading in shares of Citigroup Inc (C.N) was halted on Thursday pending news on the company, according to the Nasdaq Trader website.

Citigroup was last traded at $3.42 per share before the market opened, up 11 percent from its Wednesday closing price of $3.08.

Citi shares flip over bonds, files for reverse split

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Shares of Citigroup Inc. reversed course dramatically Thursday afternoon, falling 12% after news that the firm issued $3 billion in bonds backed by credit-card receivables and eligible for government financing.

Citi had risen by about 20% earlier after it filed a registration statement with the Securities and Exchange Commission to seek shareholder approval to convert preferred shares into common stock under its previously announced plan to build capital.

The company said in a Securities and Exchange Commission filing Thursday that it has reached definitive agreements with private preferred shareholders to convert $12.5 billion of the securities into common shares.

In midday trading, Citi's shares reversed earlier gains and were lately down more than 12% to $2.70.

If all the shares are converted, along with up to $25 billion of preferreds the U.S. government has agreed to convert, current common shareholders would be diluted by about 75%, and the government's stake would reach about 36%.

Citi first announced the plan in late February, and said it hopes it will convert about $52.5 billion of preferred shares into common shares.

The bank said it hopes to launch the exchange offer in early April, subject to regulatory approval. Citi also said it is asking for approval to execute a reverse stock split of its common stock.

In its filing, Citi also said it is seeking permission for a reverse stock split, but did not provide further details.
Another way to stick the us the gov into trading perfered stock fer common...then dilute it...

Reverse Stock Split

What Does Reverse Stock Split Mean?
A reduction in the number of a corporation's shares outstanding that increases the par value of its stock or its earnings per share. The market value of the total number of shares (market capitalization) remains the same. Investopedia explains Reverse Stock Split
For example, a 1-for-2 reverse split means you get half as many shares, but at twice the price. It's usually a bad sign if a company is forced to reverse split - firms do it to make their stock look more valuable when, in fact, nothing has changed. A company may also do a reverse split to avoid being delisted.

[edit on 3/19/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 12:07 PM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

Any reason why the US markets are not taking the gesture by the fed as a positive sign?

I was expecting a rally by now.

Also more scandals are to be coming out from the squandering of tax payer dollars during the bail outs.

Now the new scandal is that AIG no only show the donations to Republicans and Democrats but also, the donations that went on during the AIG decision of been bail out

This is nothing but corruption and more corruption going on everywhere you look at.

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 12:09 PM
The brain is sick.

Mass of people, and that is millions, belong to the "upper class" - politics, business, banking. All those structures are now so corrupted: scandals like AIG, Madoff, Pharmaceuticals (bird flu virus release, vitamins scam...), all of it, makes those people panic and turn against each other against their primary instinct to stick together against the "masses". So now they are creating smoke screen to hide their own downfall. It will become clear that Obama is also involved in bribery (don't forget that Blagojevich promised to talk, he hasn't yet), and the AIG lists of donations (Dodd case) and there will be more.

This corrupt system can't sustain itself especially since it becomes too obvious that now it is the taxpayers which should sacrifice themselves to sustain them - without any real reformation. The situation is very row; it is ripe for any kind of revolution, from reformist movement to government initialized socialist course (which will find big resistance imho) all the way to "globalist agenda", which in my opinion needs strong support from abroad, or it will fail. And it will fail, because the rest of the world also has the same wild cat in their bag.

Look at what happened to dollar only today (-5%), then banks seem to be going down again, oil is rising (how much really since it's calculated on dollar?). USA must immediately demand assistance from abroad, or else...

So this is now a big global political game and at the same time at home there is a very big mess. This really is not favorable to America.

And don't forget that USA is a federation of 50 countries, and there are already articulated demands and nervousness from particular states which feel that Federal government is loosing the grip on the situation. The cohesion is loosening...

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 12:13 PM
reply to post by marg6043

I think it's because of:

Dollar Devaluation

Inflation Risks

Governments general involvement as lender of ONLY choice now

Continuing Financial/Government Scandels

...just to name a few other than...

Talk of new reserve currency (No real MSM coverage of this yet...)

U.N. panel says world should ditch dollar

LUXEMBOURG (Reuters) - A U.N. panel will next week recommend that the world ditch the dollar as its reserve currency in favor of a shared basket of currencies, a member of the panel said on Wednesday, adding to pressure on the dollar.

Currency specialist Avinash Persaud, a member of the panel of experts, told a Reuters Funds Summit in Luxembourg that the proposal was to create something like the old Ecu, or European currency unit, that was a hard-traded, weighted basket.

Persaud, chairman of consultants Intelligence Capital and a former currency chief at JPMorgan, said the recommendation would be one of a number delivered to the United Nations on March 25 by the U.N. Commission of Experts on International Financial Reform.

"It is a good moment to move to a shared reserve currency," he said.

Central banks hold their reserves in a variety of currencies and gold, but the dollar has dominated as the most convincing store of value -- though its rate has wavered in recent years as the United States ran up huge twin budget and external deficits.

Some analysts said news of the U.N. panel's recommendation extended dollar losses because it fed into concerns about the future of the greenback as the main global reserve currency, raising the chances of central bank sales of dollar holdings.

"Speculation that major central banks would begin rebalancing their FX reserves has risen since the intensification of the dollar's slide between 2002 and mid-2008," CMC Markets said in a note.

Russia is also planning to propose the creation of a new reserve currency, to be issued by international financial institutions, at the April G20 meeting, according to the text of its proposals published on Monday.

It has significantly reduced the dollar's share in its own reserves in recent years.
More Info on Link...


are killin' us yet again today...

[edit on 3/19/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 12:37 PM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

It should also be noted that the vast majority of Reverse Split's end up in further crashing of the companies stock. Few, precious few, companies that preform these Reverse Splits actually attain the desired outcome, and is typically a last resort. Far more often than not, it can be said this is what will happen:

Citi Reverse Splits it's stock, assuming it was $2.50 at the time of the split, the Common Stock is valued at $5 per share (note no value added, only a conversion). This allows for Hedge Funds to trade Citi Shares again (most never trade stocks under $5). Those still holding Citi Share then dump the stock while they can, and eventually Citi falls back to $2-$1 a share, which in actuality is roughly $1-.50 a share pre-reversal.

Stock splits are great, reverse splits are bad. If they Reverse Split and then dilute the Common Shares the scenario above would probably be worse than even my prediction.

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 12:43 PM
reply to post by Rockpuck got it...

What a mess...

They have to talk the Gov into trading perfered for common to cover capitol req's...and now do a $3B stock offering & reverse split...

Dilute the Gov's (our) shares...get more suckers to invest...and still get backstops and infusions...nice...for them...

Meanwhile now at $5 (if they make it) hedgies can get in and make money off 'em...

Short-covering may not be enough to maintain rally
Market Watch

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Some of the recent rally in the market's most beaten-down stocks, such as financials, may be the result of investors covering short positions, raising questions about the long-term endurance of the move higher.

"I think particularly with the big rally in financials, we're seeing a lot of short covering," said Ken Tower, market strategist at Quantitative Analysis Services. "Fundamentals haven't changed enough for financials to really generate that much enthusiasm."

Investors who short a stock are essentially betting that its price will fall -- borrowing shares and then selling them back at the lower price.

The difference is the short seller's profit. But if the price rises, as has been the case with many financial stocks this month, they are forced to "cover" their positions by buying shares.

[edit on 3/19/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 01:00 PM

S&P May Downgrade AmEx

Standard & Poor's Ratings Services warned it may downgrade the credit ratings of American Express Co. and its units, reflecting economic pressures that led the company to disclose rising write-offs Monday.

Credit- and charge-card companies have come under pressure as consumers pay back less of their outstanding balances each month, setting the stage for deeper pain for issuers.

The ratings firm on Thursday cited mounting unemployment as a key problem for American Express, which would suffer as cash-strapped consumers held back from making payments. S&P sees unemployment reaching double-digits on a percentage basis next year.

Those broader economic issues have been exacerbated by American Express' aggressive growth strategy in credit cards from 2004 through 2007, said S&P, which currently has its long-term rating at A. That drive to expand has caused the company's asset quality to deteriorate faster than median levels for the industry, a marked change from the assumption that American Express would continue to lead its peers in that area.

On Monday, American Express disclosed that write-offs for its $30 billion of loans rose to 8.7% in February and 8.3% in January, from 7.5% in December. That echoed a Fitch Ratings report that indicated American Express cardholders paid down 22.2% of their balances in February, down from 22.4% a month earlier.

S&P said it will reassess potential credit losses as the recession appears worse than when it downgraded American Express in December.

Standard & Poor's Ratings downgrades 3M Co. to AA- on higher leverage - Update

(RTTNews) - Wednesday, Standard & Poor's Ratings Services lowered St. Paul, Minn.-based 3M Co. (MMM: News )'s corporate credit and senior unsecured ratings to 'AA-' from 'AA'. At the same time, S&P affirmed the 'A-1+' short-term credit rating. The outlook is stable.

With the recent issuance of about $1.7 billion of debt, which increased liquidity, and significant growth in its tax-adjusted unfunded pension liabilities, the company's total debt to EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) rose to 1.4x at year-end 2008 versus 0.8x in the previous year.

Standard & Poor's credit analyst Philip Schrank said, "The downgrade reflects a decline in still very strong debt-protection measures as a result of the weakened global economic environment that has trimmed EBITDA levels along with rising debt levels."

"We do not expect any material deleveraging over the near term, given the very difficult global economic outlook, which will continue to pressure profits, and the company's limited debt maturity schedule." Schrank noted.
Rating Agencys gone one can escape this carnage...

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Hx3_1963
Rating Agencys gone one can escape this carnage...

I can't say I am not upset about all of this but I do hope this rally continues so when I am set up in my nice new account I can buy triple short etf's and puts...

posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 01:46 PM
Now there's yer problem Joe...

CME Group, Citadel Said to Lack Credit-Default Swap Customers

March 19 (Bloomberg) -- CME Group Inc. and Citadel Investment Group LLC, partners in a plan to guarantee credit- default swaps that gained U.S approval last week, have no customers lined up who want to clear the trades, according to people familiar with the situation.

While the CME Group and Citadel system, known as CMDX, is ready to process trades into Chicago-based CME Group’s clearinghouse, no users in the market have agreed to use it, said two people who asked not to be named because the information isn’t public.

Intercontinental Exchange Inc., which has a partnership with Goldman Sachs Group Inc., JPMorgan Chase & Co. and seven other banks, is the first to clear trades in the $27 trillion market, gaining an edge over CME Group, the world’s largest futures market, and Chicago-based Citadel, a $13 billion hedge fund. Atlanta-based Intercontinental said it cleared $7.15 billion in credit-default swaps last week, the first time the contracts have been processed by a clearinghouse.

“The banks now have their preferred solution in Intercontinental, so CME faces an uphill battle,” said Craig Pirrong, a finance professor at the University of Houston.

CME Group is “in advanced discussions with a wide range of market participants,” and expects to begin clearing “in the coming weeks,” Anita Liskey, managing director for corporate communications at CME Group, said in an e-mailed statement. Citadel spokeswoman Katie Spring referred questions to CME Group.

Regulator Push

U.S. and European regulators pushed for credit-default swaps to be guaranteed by clearinghouses after the September bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., one of the largest dealers in the market, cost the firm’s trading partners hundreds of millions in losses, according to Moody’s Investor Service.

New York-based American International Group Inc., once the world’s largest insurer, almost collapsed because bets on the contracts backfired, forcing a $173 billion U.S. government rescue.

Clearinghouses stabilize markets by becoming the buyer to every seller and seller to every buyer, reducing the risk of counterparty default. They also collect trade data in one location, making it easier for regulators to keep watch of prices and positions.

Credit-default swaps, which are used to hedge against losses or to speculate on a company’s ability to repay its debt, pay the buyer face value if a borrower defaults in exchange for the underlying securities or the cash equivalent.

Concentrated Trading

Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, both based in New York, and the other banks backing Intercontinental dominate trading in the credit-default swap market. Banks trading with other banks accounted for 80 percent of all trades in the week ended March 13, according to New York-based Depository Trust & Clearing Corp., which runs a central registry for the market.

“The majority of the trades are still inter-dealer,” said Brian Yelvington, a senior analyst at bond-research firm CreditSights Inc. in New York. As a result, hedge funds and other investors will prefer Intercontinental’s platform, he said.

Intercontinental received its last regulatory approval for its credit-default swap clearing on March 6 and began processing the contracts three days later. CME Group and Citadel got the final regulatory nod a week after Intercontinental.

While New York-based NYSE Euronext has offered clearing of credit-default swaps since December, it said it hasn’t processed a trade. Frankfurt-based Eurex AG, Europe’s largest futures market, and LCH.Clearnet Ltd. in London, Europe’s largest securities clearinghouse, plan to offer clearing in credit- default swaps this year.
...Sure...this will do the trick...everyone will line up around the corner to get in on this...

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