The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

It is amazing how these rallies begin with such a vhemence.

S&P 500 -3.20 788.40 3/18 7:08pm
Fair Value 774.69 3/17 8:53pm
Difference* +13.71

NASDAQ -1.75 1211.00 3/18 6:40pm
Fair Value 1192.87 3/17 8:53pm
Difference* +18.13

Dow Jones -27.00 7416.00 3/18 7:11pm
===
Australia
S&P/ASX 200 INDEX 3,489.40 43.10 1.25% 19:22
S&P/ASX 300 INDEX 3,473.50 42.80 1.25% 19:22
ALL ORDINARIES INDX 3,425.30 39.10 1.15% 19:22

New Zealand
NZX 50 FF GROSS INDEX 2,625.12 18.80 0.72% 19:02
NZX TOP 10 INDEX 765.03 0.62 0.08% 18:52
NZX 15 GROSS INDEX 4,905.38 32.65 0.67% 18:56
NZX ALL INDEX 661.14 1.36 0.21% 18:54
===
Gold $934.39

California must be in a better position now, I just got my tax return that I filed in the beginning of January. All of it too am amazed we are supposed to still be broke as all get out and they are finally sending out peoples tax returns.....ODD to me it is.... see ya later tonight....stay safe

I love these fake rallies. All over a leaked memo about Citi turning a profit..How stupid these traders can be. A leaked memo is exactly what JP Morgan did in 1907 to cause the Financial Panic of 1907 where hundreds of banks experienced runs while JP Morgan raked in the assets.

People will buy Citi stock now and the people running the show and leaking the memos will be laughing all the way to the bank with our money again as they burn the #ing house down.

Wake up people, this is NOT A BOTTOM.

just read through kd's blog thing and i gotta say, i really dont like that guy. he predicts the end of the world every time he sees his own shadow. his objective of course is eventually he will get another one right.

This should put this into a little bit of context. This is MUCH bigger than the Great Depression, the market has NOT finished falling. Our entire economy is the wealth of other nations, and that access is drying up quickly. The rallies we're seeing now is the infusion of cash from the government. Part of the recent upswings are due to $1.2 trillion dollars in Federal spending. $300 billion of that will go to propping up the Bond market, which I forecast to collapse later this year, why do you think they are doing this? They will then take the rest of the money and dump it into MBS without addressing the fraud at any level.

And now inflation is going up:

U.S. inflation rises, trade gap shrinks sharply

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. inflation rose in February on higher gasoline and apparel prices, government data showed on Wednesday, indicating some pricing power in the recession-hit economy and easing fears of deflation for now.

In another snapshot of the U.S. economy, the country's current account deficit for the fourth quarter contracted sharply as imports fell more rapidly than exports.

But it was the Labor Department's Consumer Price Index that attracted the most attention. Analysts said that while the CPI data showed the risk of a persistent, broad decline in prices was fading, it did not indicate a resurgence of inflation, given the deep slump the economy is in.

In February, the overall CPI rose 0.4 percent, the biggest monthly gain since last July, and above January's gain of 0.3 percent.

"Kiss the idea of deflation goodbye. The brief foray into declining consumer prices over the winter seems to be over and done with," said Howard Simons, strategist at Bianco Research in Chicago.

About two-thirds of the rise in February's inflation rate came from the 8.3 percent jump in gasoline prices.

Compared with a year ago, consumer prices rose 0.2 percent after being flat in January. Core CPI, which excludes volatile food and energy prices, gained 0.2 percent in February, after rising at the same rate the prior month.

Of course they don't count food and fuel because that would give you a real idea of what inflation is REALLY doing.

People we are losing our hold on this. Our hands are greased up and the rope is slipping, and all the government can do is put more grease on the hands just so they can avoid friction while the economy plummets to it's death.

We will not get out of this with the dollar as the currency of the world.

Funny how everyone was counting on the chinese to come up with money from somewhere to keep buying our exploding Debt Bomb and then they turn around and devalue the Debt they already own. What part of this is rocket science to them? They must have figured out that the chinese weren't going to buy any more anyway and figured what the hell let's burn the place down!

I mean competitive devaluation of currencies is a fun little game to play and all, but at the end of the day america just doesn't have anything to offer the rest of the World. We're Consumers who can no longer Consume, Useless in other words.

reply to post by projectvxn


reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


I agree, and have studied this...especially the angle on China, and the U.S. Credit addiction...this is going to be a dealbreaker soon. Bankruptcy is up 80% in California! Like a headline said today..."Feds do Huge Pump Out of Thin Air"...

Great article on it in this thread...

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

reply to post by DangerDeath


Actually they are buying $300 billion of treasuries which is the only action that could be considered "printing money". There has been so much money lost already that like Bernanke says, it will not be inflationary.


The rest is just debt from one hand to the other. Will not have the effect of increasing any measure of money supply.

I think it is a brillant plan and what I thought they should be doing all along. I just wish they would have done it on a larger scale.

reply to post by burntheships


It isn't just bankruptcy that is up I don't know where these so called economists are getting there data but there is still homes going empty everyday. Furthermore they aren't being resold or even rented for that matter. More than 30% of the business's were I live have gone overnight in most cases and it isn't slowing.

reply to post by xoxo stacie


Agreed, I was just citing one statistic...there are so many indicators...could not list them all.
Real Estate values in the California Foothills have been devalued 50%
That may not make it to the MSM...but I know for a fact it is true.

Originally posted by theWCH
KD's exact words were: "**** us."

KD's exact words on Jan 6, 2008:

Gold Advances to Highest Since 1980 - Page 3

The idea that "The Fed will buy the long end and monetize" is horses**t. They will do no such thing. I know, I know, Bernanke said he had "those tools" in his white paper.

Well, guess what - academics are a bit different than the real world.

In The Real World (tm) Bernake's Fed cannot act like that because the "Real Fed" (the government) will stop him from doing so, by force if necessary. It would take all of about an hour to pass and sign a bill revoking the Fed's charter should it act in a way that is inherently dangerous to the fiscal survival of the Federal Government; you've never seen bipartisanship like you'd see it that morning (or afternoon, or evening, etc)

Link

That was an educational debate for anyone still grappling with the inflation/deflation issue. Ultimately, the Itulip staffer in that exchange was banned from MTF - around the same time that Jesse was banned from posting - for espousing his inflationist POV.

Well, it's 10pm ET - still no bipartisan intervention.

Welcome to the The Real World (tm)


I'm sure you guys read the January TIC. Massive dilution in the treasury market aside, foreign sovereigns are deploying more of their reserves internally. At this point, what choice does the Fed have but to front run the debt market exodus?

Gubmn't shill Bill Gross recently told Fortune Magazine: “Our role now is to make money for Pimco, but it is also much greater. We [Pimco] efficiently allocate capital around the U.S. and the world."

More like; "We [Pimco], in collaboration with the United States government, have effectively sucked productive capital from hostage global markets for the past 27yrs."

That may be ending.


Don't get me wrong, I think KD is a talented day-trader - and a funny man.

I really enjoyed his February 2 Ticker - with the exception of.....

Idiocracy, Part Deux

The inescapable conclusion is that in order to get the sort of low yields that The Fed and Treasury want (which are necessary in order to get their desired "4%" mortgage rates) Treasury can do only one of two things:

1. Stop issuing massive amounts of debt, thereby making Treasury Bills and bonds short in supply for the given demand, thus forcing prices higher (and yields lower) OR

2. Literally scare money into Treasuries despite gargantuan supply, exploiting the view of "safety" that people have in Treasury debt. This in turn requires intentionally fomenting a stock market crash.

Text

He neglected #3. Monetize!

My personal exchanges with KD - date back to 2007. I ultimately banned myself - saving him the trouble

GL

Originally posted by OBE1
I'm sure you guys read the January TIC. Massive dilution in the treasury market aside, foreign sovereigns are deploying more of their reserves internally. At this point, what choice does the Fed have but to front run the debt market exodus?

Exactly.
Second Line

LAYOFF DAILY
Wed 3-18-2009

Truck-Lite Cuts Again: Tally is now -148
Cerus Corp. -31
Ingram Books -30
University of Missouri Press -7
Gates Corp. Cuts Again -68
G.W. Lisk Co. -30
Brands Direct -147
Knapheide In Quincy IL -158
Dana -5,800
New Process Gear Closing Plant -1,400
SierraPine -75 J
Eagle Precision Technologies Closes -72
Trelleborg Closing Plant -90
Sonoco Closing Cardboard Plant -58
Weyerhauser Closes Dallas Mill -78
Misc Auto Suppliers Chopping -280
Star Tribune -24
Ford Stamping Plant Temp Layoffs -50
St. Mary's Innovis -19
Clifford Chance -35
Universal McCann -55
Railroads Chopping -1,678
Columbus Newspaper -20
Crane and Co. -70
Drug Fair HQ -50
Delaware River and Bay Authority -14
Talbots Shutting 20
Stores -370
PC Connection -100
Asarco Temp Layoffs -55
Ledger-Enquirer -20
Amex Closing Halifax Call Center -87
Sea Ray Boats Cuts Again -35
ChaCha -25
Belleville News Group -30
Hawaii Superferry -106
Eagle Point School District -29
Hartford CT Schools -122
ICM -98
Swanson Group -112
Pyco Oil Mill -30
Eramet Marietta -110

Total today - (estimate ) - 11,816

and not including -
GM Idles Pontiac Plant For 3 Weeks -3,200

[edit on 18-3-2009 by spinkyboo]

I have been around for a long time and in the market a little while.
All you chicken little's if you knew what you were doing would be out spending your new found wealth instead of trying to prophecies the now and the future.
The markets tanks, busts, tailspins quicker than you can bail, BUT it always comes back.
If it does not continue to bounce because Obama is Pol Pot in drag then it will just take a little bit longer.
I'm buying. Anyway, it is time to get rid of the dead wood.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity

Actually they are buying $300 billion of treasuries which is the only action that could be considered "printing money".

Only the beginning. When that money is actually used in the fractional reserve system the Velocity of Money becomes 3 Trillion. And as stated before, inflation has been around for two months running. Inflation will show up in the things we NEED and USE on a regular basis, a Tax if you will. You can still have deflation of Assets simultaneously.

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


When you study the history of home prices it trends to a median line of about $100,000 per single family home on average. We are still far above that, unfortunately there's a lot of fraud going around, that will force the market below it's median. This will only be temporary as foreclosure auctions continue to fill these homes. In time the median price will return...This is assuming, of course, that the fraud is brought out and dealt with, and monetary policy along with leverage policy is changed for something saner.

But aside from all of that, I'm for a resource based economy, I find money and politics to be primitive and ineffectual and so long as both are allowed to continue to stifle progress by the use of these immoral tools we will never see an end to war, famine, disease, exploitation, petty crime, violent crime, and a whole host of other issues directly caused by the inaccurate, ineffectual, and inherently corrupt systems in place today.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity

 

Actually they are buying $300 billion of treasuries which is the only action that could be considered "printing money".

Only the beginning. When that money is actually used in the fractional reserve system the Velocity of Money becomes 3 Trillion. And as stated before, inflation has been around for two months running. Inflation will show up in the things we NEED and USE on a regular basis, a Tax if you will. You can still have deflation of Assets simultaneously.

Factor in energy prices, cars, housing costs, and now even food and you will see that we have quite sharp deflation. You all argued that infaltion numbers were understated because they left out these items in some form, but now that it doesn't reflect your bias, you choose to ignore them.

When it comes to the fractional banking system how much money has been removed by the $30 trillion in investment and housing losses? If you use the same multiplication factor that you use above, that means 300 trillion has been removed from the money supply due to losses. That means the fed has 270 trillion to go to get back to square one and have a neutral effect on inflation.

A more reasonable factor is 5 times. However if they end up raising banks reserve requirements, which they will eventually, then that multiplication becomes much smaller and the velocity of the money that is printed gets slowed significantly.

I'll put it in a form that you can understand. You have ten apples that will produce 10 seeds each. So in all you will end up with 100 seeds. If you lose three apples and replace them with 4 apples with 5 seeds. Then you have one more apple, but still have less overall seeds (90 vs. 100). Do you get it yet?

Printing money is only inflationary if it results in a larger money supply. It isn't doing so. It is only making up for a large part of the money supply which has dissapeared with losses.

edited for spelling

[edit on 18-3-2009 by disgustedbyhumanity]

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
I have been around for a long time and in the market a little while.
All you chicken little's if you knew what you were doing would be out spending your new found wealth instead of trying to prophecies the now and the future.
The markets tanks, busts, tailspins quicker than you can bail, BUT it always comes back.
If it does not continue to bounce because Obama is Pol Pot in drag then it will just take a little bit longer.
I'm buying. Anyway, it is time to get rid of the dead wood.

Look at how these people think. It is pretty obvious that the majority here have no wealth. Like I tell all my clients, the biggest risk you take in investing is NOT BUYING STOCKS. This year is only one of a long lifetime journey. Someone who starts investing in their 20's has a 60-70 year journey ahead of them. Eventually they get wise enough to ignore the day to day flucuations in the market. it will make you crazy as this thread will evidence.

I starred your post. Well said.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity


No part of the monetary supply disappeared. Debt disappeared and trying to make it reappear won't work.