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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 02:44 AM

Trump: 'AIG has politicians right where they want them'

(CNN) -- Donald Trump, chairman and president of The Trump Organization and the executive producer of NBC's "Celebrity Apprentice," spoke with Larry King on Tuesday about the public's furor with AIG, the Bernie Madoff saga and the nation's economic woes.

The following is an edited version of the interview.

Larry King: We have public anger over the AIG bonuses. Is it justified?

Donald Trump: Well, it's unbelievable anger. I heard people saying things that you wouldn't even believe -- a very major senator saying that the people that did this should commit suicide. That's a pretty strong statement, I would say.

It is very bad politics in terms of what AIG did. They took $165 billion in money from the government and now they're going around giving out bonuses and giving people bonuses that really, in many cases, did not do a very good job and, in many cases, took the bonus and left right after the bonus. The bonuses were supposed to hold these people together and hold them into the company.

I think it's a very, very foolish thing that they did, and certainly should have used a different name if they had to do something.

King: We -- the collective we -- we the people, own 80 percent of AIG. Should we allow it to fail?

Trump: Well, Larry, now that you're in for $160 billion, it's a lot harder to walk away. I think AIG has the politicians right where they want them. Frankly, I think letting Lehman fail was far worse than letting AIG fail.

Think of this, Larry. The car companies want $35 billion. These people got $165 billion already and they're going to get a lot more. I don't know. It sounds, to me, just absolutely insane.

King: Can we get the bonuses back?

Trump: Well, it's pretty tough because supposedly they have iron-clad contracts and some of the people got their bonuses and already left. They took millions of dollars. The following day, they left. The reason for the bonus was to keep them in the company, supposedly. So they took the bonus and they left. I don't think those people are going to be giving the bonuses back, Larry.
In other words..."The Donald" wouldn't...

S&P 500 -4.40 770.90 3/18 5:06am
Fair Value 774.69 3/17 8:53pm
Difference* -3.79

NASDAQ -4.00 1186.25 3/18 4:59am
Fair Value 1192.87 3/17 8:53pm
Difference* -6.62

Dow Jones -24.00 7330.00 3/18 4:56am
Gold $910.15
FTSE 100 3,867.90 5:07AM ET 10.80 (0.28%)
CAC 40 2,787.67 5:22AM ET 20.39 (0.74%)
DAX 4,043.89 5:07AM ET 56.12 (1.41%)

Crisis having "major" impact on central bank reserve management

LONDON (Reuters) - Global financial turmoil has had a "major" impact on the reserve management policies of two thirds of central banks and almost all are rethinking diversification tactics, a survey showed on Wednesday.

The survey of 39 central banks who control reserve assets worth $3.2 trillion, just under 42 percent of the world's total, showed reserve managers were much more conservative and cautious last year than a year earlier.

Reserve managers expressed "great concern" about credit and liquidity risks, with over two thirds of respondents saying they experienced bouts of illiquidity in even the major bond markets.

Over 90 percent of respondents to the survey conducted by Central Banking Publications said they have been forced to reassess counterparty risk and most said the hunt for diversity and yield in recent years has been severely curtailed.

The majority of respondents in the survey, carried out late last year, also said they expect reserves to fall as the crisis unfolds before recovering to only "marginally" above current levels over the next four years.

"The unprecedented changes to the financial landscape witnessed over the last (few) months have dramatically altered previous paradigms and beliefs," said a respondent from a central bank in the Americas.

"These events have increased risk aversion and central banks have not been an exception."

Hedge Funds Can’t Save Themselves With Lower Fees: Matthew Lynn

March 18 (Bloomberg) -- It works for street traders. It can work for airlines, retailers and carmakers. But hedge funds?

As the financial community staggers from disaster to disaster, some alternative-investment managers have decided that slashing their fees is the only way to salvage their business.

Firms such as Centaurus Capital Ltd. and Harbinger Capital Partners are cutting the charges they levy on investors. As sales fall and redemptions increase, don’t be surprised if many others do the same thing.

It won’t work. The hedge-fund industry was never about price and never will be. These money managers are now showing that their ability to manipulate figures on a screen doesn’t necessarily translate into knowledge about how business works.

Throughout its explosive growth, the hedge-fund industry has been dominated by two simple numbers: 2 and 20. Typically, the funds charged 2 percent of assets under management and collected 20 percent of any gain made. Some of the biggest fortunes of recent times have been built on those two figures.

Now, with returns plummeting and investors heading for the exit, hedge funds are searching for a new strategy.

This week, London-based Centaurus Capital said it was starting a new fund that would charge a more modest 1.5 percent plus 15 percent of profits. Earlier this month, Harbinger Capital Partners, run by Philip Falcone, proposed lower management and incentive fees if investors agreed to have their money tied up for two years rather than one. New York-based Prentice Capital Management LP is offering similar incentives for tie-up periods.

Owners skulking away from "underwater" U.S. homes

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Ron Barnard is throwing in the towel. Like a growing number of the 8.3 million American homeowners who owe more on mortgages than their homes are worth, he's ready to just walk away.

Barnard and others like him are starting to worry market experts and economists, who fret that the growing trend may deal a blow to an economy on its knees while swelling an already ample pool of bad loans.

While others persist in draining savings and running up credit card debt in a last-ditch bid to save their homes, a growing number see no point in making boom-level mortgage payments in a bust market -- with no bottom in sight.

"People are hurting," said Barnard, who includes himself in that group. "They're scared or they're angry,"

In California's Inland Empire east of Los Angeles, where Barnard lives and sells real estate, median home values have plunged more than 40 percent in the last year as formerly sidelined buyers snapped up foreclosed properties.

Those bank-owned homes moved at fire-sale prices that decimated the value of neighboring homes -- many of which are owned by people who have limited "skin in the game" because they put little or no money down at purchase.

Deflating home prices thus threaten to accelerate a negative feedback loop that has sent prices lower, said economist Ed Leamer, director of the UCLA Anderson Forecast.

"Should the downward spiral in home prices, neighborhood condition and equity deterioration continue, more and more mainstream borrowers are likely to walk away from their homes," Credit Suisse said in a December report.

Barnard, who already has stopped making payments on five investment properties purchased in 2005, is on the verge of giving up on his own home that is now worth roughly half its $800,000 purchase price.

Others weigh the predictable and relatively short-term foreclosure-related hit to their credit ratings against the diminishing likelihood of breaking even on their investments or even making monthly payments on such severely "underwater" homes.
...And the carnage continues...

All these programs and minimal results...

[edit on 3/18/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 04:30 AM
RBS faces U.S. lawsuit from Mn Services, others

AMSTERDAM, March 18 (Reuters) - Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS.L) faces a U.S. class action from Dutch asset manager Mn Services and others demanding compensation on preference shares which have fallen in value, Mn Services said on Wednesday.

"How much we are demanding I cannot say yet," said an Mn Services spokesman, confirming a report in a Dutch newspaper.

RBS declined to comment.
Mn Services, which manages about 56 billion euros for Dutch pension funds, is one of the main parties seeking damages, the spokesman said.

U.S. law firm Coughlin Stoia Geller Rudman & Robbins LLP said last month it had started a class action on behalf of some buyers of RBS securities, saying the bank falsely reassured investors that it was well capitalized.

"(In) fact, the company was effectively insolvent as a result of impaired assets, bad loans, and its disastrous partial acquisition of ABN AMRO," the law firm said.

Mn Services was involved in the class action with help from the law firm, Dutch newspaper Het Financieele Dagblad said. The Mn Services spokesman would not comment.

The class action against RBS is similar to those filed against Dutch financial group ING (ING.AS), which said on Saturday it faced four U.S. class actions because perpetual bonds had fallen in value and investors felt misled about ING's financial position

Seems perhaps someone in the USA got the skinny on the fraud being conducted by the banks eta.all and are seeking damages. I seriously doubt they will get anything. RBS might as well throw in the towel at this point in the game.

ROYAL BK SCOTL GR 5:10AM ET 23.10 0.90 4.05% 23.30 22.20 (current)
RBS.L Chart, Profile, more... 14,693,904 22.80 - 23.90 10.00 - 398.75 - 310.68

So far they have lost almost 90% of their worth in the last 52 week cycle and have been hanging on with capital injections from both sides of the big blue sea.( or maybe we should call it the big GREEN sea

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 04:36 AM
reply to post by xoxo stacie
Just think of the failures if not for AIG throwing money out the backdoor to those banks...

Looks like "Lady & The Tramps" won't be getting scraps out the back door of Luigi's for much longer?

Seems a ground swell of outrage is building worldwide...

Speaking of failures...BOY OH BOY...this is never gonna end!!

Freddie Mac: The Government's Next Black Hole?

AIG is to date the most expensive corporate bailout in American history, requiring $180 billion of government funds. But it may soon have competition. Last week, mortgage giant Freddie Mac said that it had lost $50 billion in 2008 alone. A look at the company's books suggests the government will have to spend at least triple that much to save the financial firm from collapse. If the housing market worsens, the tab could even be larger.

"Freddie's portfolio of [mortgage] insurance is more risky than the market was led to believe," says Paul Miller, an analysts at FBR Capital Markets. Sister company Fannie Mae lost even more last year, with $58.7 billion of red ink. But Fannie was better capitalized than Freddie going into the credit crunch. So even though Freddie by many measures is smaller than Fannie, the problems at Freddie will probably end up costing more.

Citigroup and other banks have also lost money, and will need more capital to survive. But in those cases it's not clear who will take the hit - shareholders, bondholders or the government. In the case of AIG, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, however, there is no question where the money will come from. Freddie and Fannie were taken over by the government and put into conservatorship last fall. AIG is now 80% owned by the government. The losses at those companies are now taxpayer losses.

And like AIG, Freddie has had to come back to the government a number of times with cup in hand. The mortgage giant has already received $14 billion in government aid. After the fourth quarter loss of $24 billion, the company said it needs an additional $31 billion from the government to keep the lights on.

Freddie's business, which in part comes from a government mandate, is insuring mortgages. So when borrowers lose their jobs, as many now are, Freddie is going to lose money. But only a quarter of Freddie's red ink, or about $13 billion, comes from mortgage insurance woes. The firm took a larger hit from its investment in mortgage-backed securities tied to subprime, adjustable-rate or jumbo mortgages. By law, Freddie isn't allowed to insure against losses on those types of mortgages, in part because they are riskier. But it bought securities tied to those home loans anyway - which it is allowed to do - in order to capture the higher rates of return that those mortgage bonds offered. Unfortunately, the bets didn't pay off. Freddie lost $16 billion on those investments.

Another bet that didn't pay off for Freddie was on interest rates. The firm's managers bought derivatives that would pay out if interest rates rose. Instead, a global financial meltdown has caused interest rates to plummet. That resulted is a $15 billion loss for Freddie from its hedges.

Freddie lost another $1 billion on bonds tied to short-term loans made to Lehman Brothers. Like Lehman, that investment went belly up. Then there are all the houses it now has to repossess as people stop paying their mortgages. The company now owns about 30,000 homes. Maintaining these houses cost about $3,300 a month each, and that comes on top of the loan loss, which is typically about one-third of the size of the mortgage. Wave goodbye to another billion.
This REALLY NEEDS TO yesterday!!!

[edit on 3/18/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 04:45 AM
It is about to get worse a story came out about the USA mulling over a bigger war yet! In Pakistan I posted the article on a new thread. But in essence Obamas advisers are telling him to keep Bush and co's previous orders in place about bombing the border and add to it commando style ground invasions. Perhaps some of the doom and gloomers weren't to far off on the ME getting HOTTER.

To add:
Just a thought...could the Pakistan thing be why the markets have been surging? I mean everyone is still in the war brings everyone out of recession thinking. Perhaps they knew and are banking on it.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by xoxo stacie]

[edit on 18-3-2009 by xoxo stacie]

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 04:49 AM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

I truly wonder how much more news like this it is going to take before people everywhere wake up and realize the gig is up! For cripes sake everything is falling off the cliff and no amount of money is going to pull all of it back up.
Then again maybe people do see it and are just to scared to speak about it because we all know that would be admitting we where taken for a ride. Not to mention the fear people would have over the knowledge of being completely broke!

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 04:55 AM
reply to post by xoxo stacie
...But wait...there's more!!!

The Real AIG Scandal
It's not the bonuses. It's that AIG's counterparties are getting paid back in full.
By Eliot Spitzer
Posted Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 11:01am

Everybody is rushing to condemn AIG's bonuses, but this simple scandal is obscuring the real disgrace at the insurance giant: Why are AIG's counterparties getting paid back in full, to the tune of tens of billions of taxpayer dollars?

For the answer to this question, we need to go back to the very first decision to bail out AIG, made, we are told, by then-Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, then-New York Fed official Timothy Geithner, Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein, and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke last fall. Post-Lehman's collapse, they feared a systemic failure could be triggered by AIG's inability to pay the counterparties to all the sophisticated instruments AIG had sold. And who were AIG's trading partners? No shock here: Goldman, Bank of America, Merrill Lynch, UBS, JPMorgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, Deutsche Bank, Barclays, and on it goes. So now we know for sure what we already surmised: The AIG bailout has been a way to hide an enormous second round of cash to the same group that had received TARP money already.

It all appears, once again, to be the same insiders protecting themselves against sharing the pain and risk of their own bad adventure. The payments to AIG's counterparties are justified with an appeal to the sanctity of contract. If AIG's contracts turned out to be shaky, the theory goes, then the whole edifice of the financial system would collapse.

But wait a moment, aren't we in the midst of reopening contracts all over the place to share the burden of this crisis? From raising taxes—income taxes to sales taxes—to properly reopening labor contracts, we are all being asked to pitch in and carry our share of the burden. Workers around the country are being asked to take pay cuts and accept shorter work weeks so that colleagues won't be laid off. Why can't Wall Street royalty shoulder some of the burden? Why did Goldman have to get back 100 cents on the dollar? Didn't we already give Goldman a $25 billion capital infusion, and aren't they sitting on more than $100 billion in cash? Haven't we been told recently that they are beginning to come back to fiscal stability? If that is so, couldn't they have accepted a discount, and couldn't they have agreed to certain conditions before the AIG dollars—that is, our dollars—flowed?

The appearance that this was all an inside job is overwhelming. AIG was nothing more than a conduit for huge capital flows to the same old suspects, with no reason or explanation.

So here are several questions that should be answered, in public, under oath, to clear the air:

What was the precise conversation among Bernanke, Geithner, Paulson, and Blankfein that preceded the initial $80 billion grant?

Was it already known who the counterparties were and what the exposure was for each of the counterparties?

What did Goldman, and all the other counterparties, know about AIG's financial condition at the time they executed the swaps or other contracts? Had they done adequate due diligence to see whether they were buying real protection? And why shouldn't they bear a percentage of the risk of failure of their own counterparty?

What is the deeper relationship between Goldman and AIG? Didn't they almost merge a few years ago but did not because Goldman couldn't get its arms around the black box that is AIG? If that is true, why should Goldman get bailed out? After all, they should have known as well as anybody that a big part of AIG's business model was not to pay on insurance it had issued.

Spitzer Is Back!: "The Real AIG Scandal"

...As stated it will never end at this rate unless we pull the plug on this whole damn corrupt system!!!

...And MSM is worthless!!!

They won't even touch these storys!!!

[edit on 3/18/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 05:02 AM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

OH BOY! There is so much outrage in the US over AIG right now I wouldn't put it past a MSM network low in the ratings at this point. It is really turning into a dog eat dog as far as the media goes. They know whats up with the people and are slowly starting to turn against the talking heads.
I wonder if spitz has bothered to send this over to anyone at all?

goes back to painting bird house after fixing typos

[edit on 18-3-2009 by xoxo stacie]

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 05:12 AM
reply to post by xoxo stacie
Maybe someone is noticing after all...

S&P 500 -5.40 769.90 3/18 5:56am
Fair Value 774.69 3/17 8:53pm
Difference* -4.79

NASDAQ -4.50 1185.75 3/18 5:55am
Fair Value 1192.87 3/17 8:53pm
Difference* -7.12

Dow Jones -58.00 7296.00 3/18 5:33am
FTSE 100 3,841.08 5:56AM ET -16.02 (-0.42%)
CAC 40 2,786.23 6:11AM ET 18.95 (0.68%)
DAX 4,025.85 5:56AM ET 38.08 (0.95%)

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 05:24 AM
Looks like the 2 mil in jobless report didn't do very much to wake anyone over there up either. Started trending down then right back up it came. Maybe they are yet again waiting to see how much the US people are going to take before they all bail on this farce.

Going in for some rest at least have to meditate in some relaxation. Be back soon.

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 06:26 AM
S&P 500 -2.00 773.30 3/18 7:16am
Fair Value 774.69 3/17 8:53pm
Difference* -1.39

NASDAQ -0.75 1189.50 3/18 7:12am
Fair Value 1192.87 3/17 8:53pm
Difference* -3.37

Dow Jones -26.00 7328.00 3/18 7:16am
FTSE 100 3,861.59 7:10AM ET 4.49 (0.12%)
CAC 40 2,792.26 7:25AM ET 24.98 (0.90%)
DAX 4,039.54 7:11AM ET 51.77 (1.30%)
Gold $911.38

levels holding/us gaining it seems...

[edit on 3/18/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 07:01 AM
R says DJIA 7500 "Falling Knife"...

With emptied mind
machines float in dream-dust.
They suffer images.

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 07:14 AM
reply to post by DangerDeath

So vague

So Cryptic,

can be twisted to fit whatever he chooses after the fact - R is such wonderful tin

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 07:17 AM
S&P 500 -5.70 769.60 3/18 8:01am
Fair Value 774.69 3/17 8:53pm
Difference* -5.09

NASDAQ -3.75 1186.50 3/18 8:00am
Fair Value 1192.87 3/17 8:53pm
Difference* -6.37

Dow Jones -60.00 7294.00 3/18 8:01am
FTSE 100 3,829.16 8:01AM ET -27.94 (-0.72%)
CAC 40 2,760.32 8:16AM ET -6.96 (-0.25%)
DAX 4,014.91 8:01AM ET 27.14 (0.68%)

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 07:28 AM
Had Enough FRAUD America?

today's ticker - it's HUGE

KD really pours it out today - well worth the time to read

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 07:36 AM
reply to post by redhatty

Unfortunately, the ideal of lawfulness is a buffer to fight off people's emotions away from the fraudsters. Yes, flood Congress with emails! Throw rock on thought! It is a total miss.

Harmony sings
death of species.
feed on mothers.
Thus love abandons
soft vagina, leaves spasm behind.
Breasts wither.
Naked cheekbones defy
ordnance. Empty dresses
freeze winds.
Shadows and thunders
hew off unison.

The seam between two worlds is to make sure they stay separated.
Not to put them together as a functional unit. The world of common people provides fuel for the world of Vampires.

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 07:42 AM
reply to post by redhatty

Curiously, Reinhardt believes that exposing the bastards is the same as destroying them. Well, I don't think so.
They own the handcuffs.

In the middle of this outrage, they are pushing pedal to the metal. Things accelerate. This is going to be such a crash, such a stranding!

Literally, ashes will fall from the sky.

Even the meteorologists will drown

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 07:51 AM
reply to post by DangerDeath

That is one possible outcome.

But I prefer to believe that the foundation of the US will survive and return, that we won't end up going mad-max.

Exposing the fraudsters will eliminate them, they can have all the handcuffs they want - we still have pitchforks and torches and rope

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 07:56 AM

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by redhatty

Curiously, Reinhardt believes that exposing the bastards is the same as destroying them. Well, I don't think so.
They own the handcuffs.

In the middle of this outrage, they are pushing pedal to the metal. Things accelerate. This is going to be such a crash, such a stranding!

Literally, ashes will fall from the sky.

Even the meteorologists will drown

I wish I could get in "R"'s mind

In the meantime.. SIRI... is in total breakout mode like charts said and dont look now but your all time favorite dog SUNW coming out of the WOODWORK!!!!

could be an interesting day folks!

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 08:00 AM
reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity

The 133% number is a little misleading. The numbers had dropped so low hat even a 133% gain wouldn't bring the market back up to it's peak level. Also, the second stock market crash of 1937 wiped out most of those gains.

These are important details if we want to look at the Depression as a guide.

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 08:06 AM
I have really come to fear what investors are going to do with US T-bonds over the next few months. All the signs are pointing to a large sell off and a huge blow to the USD if the government doesnt figure out it's doing the wrong thing.

There is literally NOTHING normal citizens can do to change this. Spamming our representatives with emails might make a dent but 99% of our governmental body has no idea how the economy works and will likely make horrid decisions based on lies and deceit from the Federal Reserve and the hidden bankster family spies in their midst.

This might be the end of our Market Rally that we have been predicting here.

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