Attacking the average Joe?

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by FlyersFan
McCain is to blame because an average guy asked Obama a question

It has been noted that an average plumber does not make $250k a year.
So the "average" argument is a non-starter.

Average plumber income is $47k.

What about a company that was started by one plumber who worked hard, got a good reputation, hired another plumber to help him with his success. They worked hard, hired 3 more, and......OOPS! Joe is now making $250,000 a year! Looks like the average Joe who worked hard to start up his small operation is now being taxed to death by Obama. What is Joe going to do? I would venture to say a couple of plumbers are going to be out of work to help Joe avoid being raped by big government.

Lets put a cap on success why don't we?

I own a small business. I voted for Bush because he promised a tax break for small businesses.

Bush got elected. Then Bush said - Sorry we can't afford it.

Campaign promises don't mean anything.

For what it's worth, Joe would have been fine if McCain had kept his mouth shut. Instead of using a non-specific human as an example, McCain decided to use Joe specifially, trying to use him as leverage to make a point.

Joe the Plumber would have been fine, if McCain wouldn't have brought him up, repeatedly.

Originally posted by esdad71
the fact is what if this guy wants to OWN a company and employ 7 plumbers. He does not need to be certified as a plumber, just a sub contractor at that point.

If he wants to perform plumbing, me must be licensed plumber. True if he just wants to general contract, he can sub licensed plumbers out on EVERY job. HOWEVER, he must then be a licensed builder and he is not a licensed builder either so once again, he would be breaking the law.

This thread amazes me.
First off I neither support Obama or McCain - lets get that out of the way.
Like Pieman, I'm having difficulty grasping where this partisan finger point is coming from.

This Joe guy who is a McCain supporter didn't think Obama was answering tough enough questions and tried to trap him with a "doozey"

Obama responds with "Spread the wealth around" [via taxes mind you]
People respond "AHA! SOCIALIST! BOO HISS!"

And this surprises anyone why? Democrats in general have always had socialist type tendencies. Where is the freaking issue here? You don't like it, don't vote for him. I'm not. If other people like it then they'll vote for him.
THAT SIMPLE!

This will not make America a socialist country - so get over it.
McCain in office will not be another Bush - so get over it.
But this whole socialist concept is getting rediculous.
Oh and about Joe the plummer - if he didn't want to be the target of the MSM he should have told McCain to shut the hell up about him and stop trying to use him as a proxy.

I posted this on another thread too.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Whether Joe (the Plumber) Wurzelbacher was a put up or not, this video of the original questions to and answers from Obama is worth seeing. As an erstwhile tax accountant, I can say that Obama knows his stuff and was able to provide a very good answer to him. In response, Joe is smiling and appears to be won round. Seriously! It’s over 5 minutes long, Obama gives him that much time, and no soundbite broadcaster is going to show it all. Instead, those like Fox have picked out the bits which they reckon show Obama in a bad light (”share it around”), taking that quote out of context and dong their best to convince voters that Obama is a clean-shaven slimmed down and blacked-up version of Karl Marx. What they don’t show is Obama’s clear explanation of why his plans would have been of benefit to Joe the Plumber *and* that Joe appears to understand this.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by TravelSmart]

reply to post by nyk537


Well, the MSM will do anything to have this "magic Negroe" elected, the will shill for him, bash for him and ignore anything in his past as long as he remains THE ONE.

We need to investigate the MSM, lets stake out their houses and dig up their public info.

I am not Mccain supporter in any way, but I can however recognize the blatant ignorance and hypocricy of the main stream media.


Why is it that these people want to focus so much effort on chastising and smearing some poor dumb guy like this Joe character, who has no impact on this election or any real topic of importance whatsoever.

They will grill this poor sap in the media over and over again ad nauseum, yet they will completely and tirelessly ignore the heathens that have reared their ugly little heads in Obama's past.

Why arent these reporters camping out in front of Williams Ayers house and questioning him about how he basically kick started the political career of his good friend Barak Obama? I dont seem to recall any instances of Joe the plumber attempting to blow up a federal building.

Where are the media shills that should be sent to investigate Jeramiah Wright, an openly and unapologetic bigot and race monger, the man who was dubbed "spiritual mentor" to Obama. He performed Obama's wedding cermony, and Obama sat in the congregation of his church for 20 years listening to racist and anti American diatribes...only to later claim that he "didnt hear any of it?" Are you kidding me?

Again....much more relevant to the candidates at hand and the election in comparison to Joe the nobody plumber.


Why arent these media people camped out in front of Tony Rezko's house trying to get answers as to why he produced financial favors for his close friend and confidant Barak Obama? Oh thats right...they cant camp in fron of his home because he is in a federal prison serving time for felony fraud.

Hmmmm? Is Joe the plumber more important than a presidential candidate's long relationship (and business associate) with a known and convicted thief and criminal?

Keep your blinders on people, ignore the truth as best you can. keep on beating the hell out of Joe nobody. Meanwhile we will let a man who has direct and immediate ties to a domestic terrorist, a racist bigot and a convicted felon sneak into the back door of our most powerful office in our country simply because he is a convincing public speaker and the flavor of the month

And again I am not saying John Mccain is any better at all...but come on...how can any reasonable and responsible person deny and overlook this type of stuff? I guess one can ignore anything if they try hard enough.

[edit on 10/18/08 by BlackOps719]

Look... "Joe the plumber" isn't even a license to be a plumber, he makes approx. $40k a year, He was never going to buy his bosses business. He like the politicians, misrepresented himself. If we give the politicians a hard time about doing those things why not Joe. I was held accountable when I misrepresent. My mother called that lying and I got a smackdown for it!. Besides John McCain brought Joe up. McCain put Joe in the spotlight. Anyone put in the spotlight is susceptible to ridicule from either side. Joe's a big dude and seemed to love the satellite trucks on his lawn. he said he was glad to help the election.
If he says his beliefs on national TV, we as TV viewers can have our opinions about Joe. He's not defenseless. Please don't treat him as such. He's a man not a boy!

Originally posted by Massgirl


Look... "Joe the plumber" isn't even a license to be a plumber, he makes approx. $40k a year, He was never going to buy his bosses business. He like the politicians, misrepresented himself. If we give the politicians a hard time about doing those things why not Joe. I was held accountable when I misrepresent. My mother called that lying and I got a smackdown for it!. Besides John McCain brought Joe up. McCain put Joe in the spotlight. Anyone put in the spotlight is susceptible to ridicule from either side. Joe's a big dude and seemed to love the satellite trucks on his lawn. he said he was glad to help the election.
If he says his beliefs on national TV, we as TV viewers can have our opinions about Joe. He's not defenseless. Please don't treat him as such. He's a man not a boy!

First off Joe can get a license. It really isnt that hard. In florida it is an open book test, although you really need to know your stuff because you have multiple books. I have a friend who took it and passed and he isnt the brightest. Also you dont know if he wasnt ever going to buy his boses business. From what I hear his boss wasnt even licensed. He might just be buying his truck, supplies, and clientelle. That wouldnt cost must, especially if it is an unlicensed business and his boss was retiring. Hell his boss might be giving him the company. And just because he makes 40k now doesnt mean he cant expand that business. My friends dad left the plumbing company he was working for, GOT HIS LICENSE, then opened his own up with 1 truck and a secretary. He now runs one of the biggest plumbing companies in SW Florida had a one point over 100 employees and 25 trucks, economy has forced him to make cut backs. So to say Joe cannot do the same is rediculous. I heard the man speak, he sounds quite intelligent. And if he works hard like he says he does, nothing stands in his way, except of course Obamas tax plan. BTW for businesses like my friends dad, MCCAIN wants to lower the taxes from 35% to 25%, obama wants to raise them. Now you tell me, what is better for creating jobs, higher taxes, or lower taxes. We are talking about a 20%+ difference in that taxes that will be paid.

I didn't say he can't get one. I didn't even bring up his smarts. I said he doesn't have one. He can't even buy the business. He doesn't have enough liquidity to buy his bosses business!

He's loving this stuff. He's the one who put himself out there. Others are saying he's being attacked when facts are being presented. No matter who benefits from a fact... a fact is just a fact not an attack.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by esdad71
the fact is what if this guy wants to OWN a company and employ 7 plumbers. He does not need to be certified as a plumber, just a sub contractor at that point.

If he wants to perform plumbing, me must be licensed plumber. True if he just wants to general contract, he can sub licensed plumbers out on EVERY job. HOWEVER, he must then be a licensed builder and he is not a licensed builder either so once again, he would be breaking the law.

Perhaps he's working under his boss's license.

reply to post by RKWWWW


He was contacted by the State of Ohio indicating he must have his own license.

His employer may have to fire him immediately, despite he is "studying" for the test.

I feel bad for the guy, if McCain only didn't make reference to him 25 times and try to back his entire campaign on Joe the Plumber, the poor guy wouldn't be in this position.

reply to post by BlackOps719

Why is it that these people want to focus so much effort on chastising and smearing some poor dumb guy like this Joe character, who has no impact on this election or any real topic of importance whatsoever.

Thank you, black ops

OK,

Since I still believe Joe's private life is not an issue, and since the kangaroo Court has Already judged him as unworthy to ask a question, have an opinion, or dare to even speak, even through he hasn't addressed these issues, which he shouldn't have to address in the first place,

It makes me wonder,

look at us, how can we look at the same issues through such different eyes,

musical interlude
www.youtube.com...

Now someone explain us to me.

I am Joe/Jane the plumber.

WE all are.

This could happen to any one of us.

Originally posted by Massgirl


I didn't say he can't get one. I didn't even bring up his smarts. I said he doesn't have one. He can't even buy the business. He doesn't have enough liquidity to buy his bosses business!

He's loving this stuff. He's the one who put himself out there. Others are saying he's being attacked when facts are being presented. No matter who benefits from a fact... a fact is just a fact not an attack.

If I started cyber-stalking you, snooped around and posted something that was personal about you (say a past divorce case for example), would that be OK? After all, you are here putting yourself "out there"

Originally posted by MOFreemason
reply to post by RKWWWW

 

He was contacted by the State of Ohio indicating he must have his own license.

His employer may have to fire him immediately, despite he is "studying" for the test.

I feel bad for the guy, if McCain only didn't make reference to him 25 times and try to back his entire campaign on Joe the Plumber, the poor guy wouldn't be in this position.

Oh well, the greater good is served by this incident in that it clarifies Obama's position on the role of the government.

Originally posted by MOFreemason
reply to post by RKWWWW

 

He was contacted by the State of Ohio indicating he must have his own license.

His employer may have to fire him immediately, despite he is "studying" for the test.

I feel bad for the guy, if McCain only didn't make reference to him 25 times and try to back his entire campaign on Joe the Plumber, the poor guy wouldn't be in this position.

First off he doesnt need a plumbers license if he is working for a licensed plumber. That would mean every employee of any plumbling company would need to have a license. That would be ludicrous. The fact is, as long as the owner has a license, it doesnt matter. It is my understanding that his boss doesnt have a license either. As for the question of liquidity and buying the business. You have no idea what the terms would be for that business. His boss might give him the business for a stake, lets say 10-20%, in the company. Maybe his boss is retiring. This would put Joe as the majority owner of the business and if his boss had a license he could still work under that license. As long as the person with a license owns a 10% stake in the company, the company is legit.

I was wrong. His boss is licensed in the Lucas County. Also edit to add this. JOE THE PLUMBER IS LEGIT[



[edit on 18-10-2008 by tide88]

[edit on 18-10-2008 by tide88]

Again, McCain is the one who put him in the spotlight, if you want a scapegaot for poor ol' Joe, look no further. Obama did not bring him up.

As far as taxes go, if Joe were making over 250k a year, he could afford a tax raise. People act as if a tax raise for folks who have the money to pay it is going to ruin them. All Obama told Joe, was that he wanted to spread the wealth in such a way, that people who did make less money COULD PATRONIZE HIS BUSINESS. If everyone is broke, they are going to have cousin Ed come over and bang on the pipes, rather than call good ol' Joe. You may agree or disagree, but that was the concept in a nutshell, and Joe being in the crossfire is McCain's fault. BLAME HIM. Don't harass Obama for something he did not start. Did you expect his campaign to ignore this, and just take it? That's not how that works. Any would-be president who ignores a jab or attack or claim, usually loses points for being weak.

So if you want someone to point fingers at.. point 'em at the right guy please.