Attacking the average Joe?

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by TheRooster

 

did you just read my last post or something, you're just shouting at me without answering the original question, why is it socialist to give a tax break to a poor man but not socialist to give a tax break to a rich man?

i bet obama supporters really like posts like yours.

[edit on 17/10/08 by pieman]

For one thing you are not taking money out of the pocket of the poor man and giving it too the rich. Under obamas plan you ARE taking money out of peoples pocket who EARN over 250000 and putting it in the pockets of those who make less. You realize when obama say 95% of you will get tax break, that 40% of those who are getting those break already pay ZERO taxes. These people will be getting a check every Jan from the government, who is taxing the rich to give them those checks. That is why it is socialism. Part of Obamas tax plan:

A "clean car" tax credit of up to $7,000 on the purchase of certain vehicles.

Here's the political catch. All but the clean car credit would be "refundable," which is Washington-speak for the fact that you can receive these checks even if you have no income-tax liability. In other words, they are an income transfer -- a federal check -- from taxpayers to nontaxpayers. Once upon a time we called this "welfare," or in George McGovern's 1972 campaign a "Demogrant." Mr. Obama's genius is to call it a tax cut.

Obamas 95% illusion

reply to post by tide88


i disagree, cutting employees is never an option in a small well run business. the reason big companies sometimes do so is because it cuts overheads to remove an entire shift or because the work can be easily done by an alternative, for instance, it is cheaper to lay off 1 worker in 10 and allow the remaining 9 workers one hour of overtime.

this type of strategy doesn't work if you only have three or four employees.

Originally posted by tide88

A "clean car" tax credit of up to $7,000 on the purchase of certain vehicles.

Here's the political catch. All but the clean car credit would be "refundable," which is Washington-speak for the fact that you can receive these checks even if you have no income-tax liability. In other words, they are an income transfer -- a federal check -- from taxpayers to nontaxpayers. Once upon a time we called this "welfare," or in George McGovern's 1972 campaign a "Demogrant." Mr. Obama's genius is to call it a tax cut.

Obamas 95% illusion

read it again, the tax credit is on the tax paid for the car, not income tax. if a car is environmentally clean, up to $7000 of the tax paid on the car is refunded. thats not welfare, thats responsible environmental incentives!!

[edit on 17/10/08 by pieman]

reply to post by pieman


You misread it. I accidently put the clean car credit in there. Sorry

Here's the political catch. All BUT the clean car credit would be "refundable," which is Washington-speak for the fact that you can receive these checks even if you have no income-tax liability. In other words, they are an income transfer -- a federal check -- from taxpayers to nontaxpayers. Once upon a time we called this "welfare," or in George McGovern's 1972 campaign a "Demogrant." Mr. Obama's genius is to call it a tax cut.

That is a transfer of wealth. And is BS.


[edit on 17-10-2008 by tide88]

Plungers greet Obama at Virginia Rally

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...

You know MY husband is carpenter, he is neither union or licensed, the law here doesn't require a carpenter to be licensed, he also was a trucker, independent, non union, he always was anti union for some reason.

As Democratic nominee Barack Obama pulled into the Roanoke Civic Center on Friday, he was greeted by the usual McCain campaign supporters that show at Obama rallies. But this time, those waving McCain-Palin signs were joined by dozens of people waving standard-issue plungers. Some wore white t-shirts emblazoned with "I AM JOE THE PLUMBER" on the front. The protesters all said they were volunteers and not paid by the McCain campaign.

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by TheRooster

 

did you just read my last post or something, you're just shouting at me without answering the original question, why is it socialist to give a tax break to a poor man but not socialist to give a tax break to a rich man?

i bet obama supporters really like posts like yours.

[edit on 17/10/08 by pieman]

I'm 44 years old, I have started and owned two businesses, the last of which (a wine/cigar store) I just sold in June.

I WILL NEVER DO IT AGAIN!

You know why? The government takes, and takes, and takes without giving. Before you make one red cent you have to guess what your sales are going to be and send them a check for their share. Not to mention all the licenses (tax), permits (tax), tobacco tax, etc... They are not in the wine business, yet they enjoy a 7.375% (minimum) profit margin whether I make a profit or not. Most small business owners starve the first 2 to 3 years. The odds are against you if you make it that far, but if you do, that's when it starts to pay off and that's when O'Bama wants to start taxing you more?

Tell me, under his plan, where is the incentive to starve for the first three years?

If there is no reward, why take the risk? That's why "rich people" get tax breaks. They drive industry, which in turn promotes production, which generates revenue, which gets taxed, regulated, etc...

reply to post by TheRooster


You know it's useless to argue points like this with liberals these days.

They honestly just don't get it.

A deep, dark, evil part of me almost wants Obama to win so these people can get exactly what they are asking for. Unfortunately to many others would suffer along with them.

Oppose Obama and Lose Your Job? Joe the Plumber Gets Threatened By Toledo Officials

The National Journal reports that Toledo, Ohio, officials plan to notify "Joe the Plumber" Worzelbacher that he's out of work, following his televised criticism of Democrat Presidential candidate Barack Obama's tax plan:

www.federalreview.com...

Of of course union don't like non union, when my husband worked for a non union out fit they union guys would protest the site.

Originally posted by nyk537
reply to post by TheRooster

 

You know it's useless to argue points like this with liberals these days.

They honestly just don't get it.

A deep, dark, evil part of me almost wants Obama to win so these people can get exactly what they are asking for. Unfortunately to many others would suffer along with them.

I also have had those evil thoughts,

reply to post by TheRooster

so you think that the rich shouldn't be taxed because they have worked for a few years to get their businesses off the ground?

besides, having owned two businesses surely you're very aware that you're doing pretty damn well if you make enough to fall into obamas tax brackets owning a small business.

reply to post by nyk537

i'm not american and i'm not particularly liberal by irish standards, i'm just trying to understand the points raised in the thread.
i watched the debate on TV and i didn't get any of this from what was being said, and i watched the youtube vid in the OP and didn't agree with the spin.


[edit on 17/10/08 by pieman]

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by nyk537

 

i'm not american and i'm not particularly liberal by irish standards, i'm just trying to understand the points raised in the thread.
i watched the debate on TV and i didn't get any of this from what was being said, and i watched the youtube vid in the OP and didn't agree with the spin.


[edit on 17/10/08 by pieman]

You have to read their plans. Most of what they say is completley untrue.

The taxation side of the issue has just been analyzed in
this thread, and obviously Obama's tax plan if better for Joe (read the opinion of the business owner).



[edit on 17-10-2008 by buddhasystem]

Originally posted by tide88
You have to read their plans. Most of what they say is completley untrue.

that's because they're politicians

what they say might well be 90% unworkable but that's the same with all political candidates, so that doesn't make abama any worse than mccain in itself.

The response from Senator Obama and his campaign yesterday was to attack Joe. People are digging through his personal life and he has TV crews camped out in front of his house. He didn't ask for Senator Obama to come to his house. He wasn't recruited or prompted by our campaign. He just asked a question. And Americans ought to be able to ask Senator Obama tough questions without being smeared and targeted with political attacks.

www.drudgereport.com...

Well it's about time.

MCCAIN DEFENDS THE PLUMBER

Did you watch the debate? Who dragged out poor Joe into the limelight?
If memory serves me well, it was Senator McCain.

Again, see the post above with the link to taxation comments from a small business owner and to the IRS site. Apparently, Joe is about to receive a bigger tax cut under Obama than he would under McCain!

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by TheRooster

 

so you think that the rich shouldn't be taxed because they have worked for a few years to get their businesses off the ground?

besides, having owned two businesses surely you're very aware that you're doing pretty damn well if you make enough to fall into obamas tax brackets owning a small business.

Sir, congratulations, your ignorance knows no boundry!

I'm not exactly sure what the true facts are, but I think it's something like 8 out of every 10 new businesses fail. In the face of that, guys like "Joe the Plumber" try anyway, and fail miserably, taking with them family members who put up their life savings in the pursuit of the American Dream.

So those making enough to "fall into O'Bama's tax bracket" usually dont fall into the money! They bust their 4$$ess on average for 3 to 4 years before turning a profit. And when they can finally enjoy the fruits of their success, they should have to pay more tax than you and I? So O'Bama can give it to those too lazy to work for it?

I'll say it once again, if you risk everything, you deserve the reward. Small business owners don't just "fall into" a tax bracket, they bust their humps getting there and do not deserve to have to "give" it to someone because the POTUS has a socialist agenda.

And for the record, my last business venture cost me about $170,000 in cash, and a marriage, another by-product of the pursuit for the "American Dream". Under O'Bama's plan, it's more like an American nightmare.

reply to post by TheRooster


I'm asking for your help to clarify why Obama's plan is worse than McCain's. See the link above where a business owner calculates that his liability will be less with Obama's plan.

reply to post by TheRooster


my ignorance is self professed, repeatedly bringing it up is a waste of time. i am just trying to understand your point of view, i'm not pushing obama or anyone else.

i'm still not following your train of thought here, please just answer two simple questions that i feel will help me understand.

at what point is a small business in america likely to turn enough of a profit to allow the owner of that business to award themselves a net salary of $250,000 per year?

do the majority of people in america earning $250,000 a year plus, in your opinion, own their own business?

Originally posted by buddhasystem
reply to post by TheRooster

 

I'm asking for your help to clarify why Obama's plan is worse than McCain's. See the link above where a business owner calculates that his liability will be less with Obama's plan.

buddha, I've got a problem with anyone who takes my hard earned money and wants to give it away, I don't care what you call it, it's just wrong! We are heading for the USSA, United Socialist States of America if any man implements a plan that attacks the "have's" at a rate unequal to the "have nots".

As I don't really have the time to committ to reading the fine print of his program, my post was directed at the issue of BHO's response to JTP of re-disrtibuting the wealth. Personally, I think Steve Forbes had a pretty good flat tax proposal, it levels the playing field.

For those who go to work, do their job and go home, they never see what happens behind the scenes. All the taxes, regulations, red tape, etc... business owners have to cut through just to be in a position to conduct business in the first place is immense. Unless you've actually done it, you will have little or no respect for it. Not to mention, the employees and their families who depend on the busienss owners ability to juggle all of these tasks.