Attacking the average Joe?

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posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by fleabit
Again, McCain is the one who put him in the spotlight, if you want a scapegaot for poor ol' Joe, look no further. Obama did not bring him up.

As far as taxes go, if Joe were making over 250k a year, he could afford a tax raise. People act as if a tax raise for folks who have the money to pay it is going to ruin them. All Obama told Joe, was that he wanted to spread the wealth in such a way, that people who did make less money COULD PATRONIZE HIS BUSINESS. If everyone is broke, they are going to have cousin Ed come over and bang on the pipes, rather than call good ol' Joe. You may agree or disagree, but that was the concept in a nutshell, and Joe being in the crossfire is McCain's fault. BLAME HIM. Don't harass Obama for something he did not start. Did you expect his campaign to ignore this, and just take it? That's not how that works. Any would-be president who ignores a jab or attack or claim, usually loses points for being weak.

So if you want someone to point fingers at.. point 'em at the right guy please.


This isn't about a tax increase on personal income, it's about a tax increase on small businesses.

No one is claiming Obama's campaign is, or should be, ignoring this. In fact, it's quite the opposite. His campaign is freaking out that Obama actually used the words "spread the wealth". Why do you think Joe Jerk the plumber is being smeared?

Damage control anyone?




posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by fleabit
 


Obama wants to take money from Joe's and give it to the 40 million who dont even pay taxes. That is BS. THis is just the start for obama. Who is to say he wont raise taxes even more. Hell for all we know he could end up raising taxes to 70% for the wealthy. Redistribution of wealth is wrong. The government shouldnt be able to take money from sucessful hard working people and give it to dead beat losers.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by RKWWWW
 


You are right. And mccain want to lower the 35% tax bracket on businesses to 25%. So there is a huge difference in the twos tax policies. We aren't talking about a couple % points.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by tide88
 






I was wrong. His boss is licensed in the Lucas County. Also edit to add this. JOE THE PLUMBER IS LEGIT[


thanks Tide,

www.stoptheaclu.com...




[edit on 113131p://bSaturday2008 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by RKWWWW

Originally posted by Massgirl


I didn't say he can't get one. I didn't even bring up his smarts. I said he doesn't have one. He can't even buy the business. He doesn't have enough liquidity to buy his bosses business!

He's loving this stuff. He's the one who put himself out there. Others are saying he's being attacked when facts are being presented. No matter who benefits from a fact... a fact is just a fact not an attack.


If I started cyber-stalking you, snooped around and posted something that was personal about you (say a past divorce case for example), would that be OK? After all, you are here putting yourself "out there"





Messege boards and putting yourself out on national TV are two very different things. One you are exposing yourself to millions of people instantly, but at it basic element, YES, it is ok. I put myself out there for people to notice and react to me. I deal with the consequences of that action whether negative or positive.

Now I have a task of dealing with my personal saftey... lol



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by Massgirl
Messege boards and putting yourself out on national TV are two very different things. One you are exposing yourself to millions of people instantly, but at it basic element, YES, it is ok. I put myself out there for people to notice and react to me. I deal with the consequences of that action whether negative or positive.


Lets say John McCain was going door to door on your street campaigning. And you wanted to know why on earth he chose Sarah Palin as VP, and you had the opportunity to ask him woman to man, BAM! right there in your driveway, and he responds " because she has a nice 4$$", would you then deserve to have your world thrust up side down because nobody liked his answer?

Because that's what happened here! JTP isn't being bashed because McCain invoked his name 21 times in the debate. JTP is being bashed because he asked a simple enough question, but as BHO struggled for the right words, he exposed an agenda, a rather frightening one since we have a constitution that is supposed to protect us against that very ideology.

If before JTP the dems couldn't understand why conservatives call BHO the "messiah", perhaps now they can. A simple $40k a year guy "dares" to ask BHO a simple question, (in his own front friggin yard no less), and his divorce, tax status, etc... gets dragged through the press. Absolutely un called for, period!

Having been born and raised in your state, I can tell you I was not brought up that way and I can't believe you were either. I'm not going to ask you to defend this issue, as in my eyes it's indefensible. The mans personal life, as yours and mine should be, is off limits. Because if it isn't, then NOTHING is off limits, and I humbly ask then what kind of country have we built for our children?

[edit on 10/18/2008 by TheRooster]



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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Joe is a white capitalist conservative!!!, he criticized Obama(THE ONE) and he has a shaved head!!!!. Comrades...we must destroy this threat to the Socialist States of America!!!!



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by Massgirl

Originally posted by RKWWWW

Originally posted by Massgirl


I didn't say he can't get one. I didn't even bring up his smarts. I said he doesn't have one. He can't even buy the business. He doesn't have enough liquidity to buy his bosses business!

He's loving this stuff. He's the one who put himself out there. Others are saying he's being attacked when facts are being presented. No matter who benefits from a fact... a fact is just a fact not an attack.


If I started cyber-stalking you, snooped around and posted something that was personal about you (say a past divorce case for example), would that be OK? After all, you are here putting yourself "out there"





Messege boards and putting yourself out on national TV are two very different things. One you are exposing yourself to millions of people instantly, but at it basic element, YES, it is ok. I put myself out there for people to notice and react to me. I deal with the consequences of that action whether negative or positive.

Now I have a task of dealing with my personal saftey... lol





I dunno....it seems wrong that one would have to worry about asking a Presidential candidate to explain their positions. Wrong is not the word I'm looking for. More like scary.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by RKWWWW]



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by tide88

First off Joe can get a license.

Yes but he doesn't have one NOW which means he's been breaking the law by practicing a trade without a license.


It really isnt that hard. In florida it is an open book test, although you really need to know your stuff because you have multiple books.

According to the state of Florida, this is what you need for the plumbers test



To qualify for the examination you must be at least 18 years old. You must also meet one of the following requirements:

* Four year construction-related degree from an accredited college (equivalent to three years experience) and one year proven related experience
* One year of experience as a foreman and not less than three years of credits for any accredited college-level courses
* One year experience as a workman, one year proven experience as a foreman, and two years of credits for any accredited college level courses
* Two years experience as a workman, one year experience as a foreman, and one year of credits for any accredited college level courses
* Four years experience as a workman or foreman of which at least one year must have been as a foreman
* Holding an active certified or registered Florida contractor's license

www.contractors-license.org...



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by RKWWWW

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by esdad71
the fact is what if this guy wants to OWN a company and employ 7 plumbers. He does not need to be certified as a plumber, just a sub contractor at that point.

If he wants to perform plumbing, me must be licensed plumber. True if he just wants to general contract, he can sub licensed plumbers out on EVERY job. HOWEVER, he must then be a licensed builder and he is not a licensed builder either so once again, he would be breaking the law.



Perhaps he's working under his boss's license.


All the news reports state him as an unlicensed plumber. I'm guessing if that were not true, he'd be contacting them and demanding a retraction.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by RKWWWW

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by esdad71
the fact is what if this guy wants to OWN a company and employ 7 plumbers. He does not need to be certified as a plumber, just a sub contractor at that point.

If he wants to perform plumbing, me must be licensed plumber. True if he just wants to general contract, he can sub licensed plumbers out on EVERY job. HOWEVER, he must then be a licensed builder and he is not a licensed builder either so once again, he would be breaking the law.



Perhaps he's working under his boss's license.


All the news reports state him as an unlicensed plumber. I'm guessing if that were not true, he'd be contacting them and demanding a retraction.


I think I see your problem here. You are under the misconception that everyone working at a plumbing shop has to have a plumbing license. It is a common, accepted and legal practice to have one license for a small plumbing company. That license is held by the foreman or company owner. That licensed person's name goes on the job permit. There may be 2-3 unlicensed guys at the job site doing the "grunt" work. If you asked one of those guys what he does for a living he'd say. "I'm a plumber". Just like Joe the plumber did.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by RKWWWW]



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 04:20 PM
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Ok maybe I'm missing something...

It is NOT okay for Obama to "spread the wealth" through a tiered tax system, because that is socialistic! but:

It IS okay for McCain to "spread the wealth" by his healthcare system that taxes employers so that us average joes have money in hand to choose our healthcare? - Na thats not socialistic.

It IS okay for Palin to give each eligible Alaskan $1200 through windfall taxes on oil companies - thats not socialistic either.

Medicare - Medicaid - Social Security - School Lunch Programs - Shelters - Welfare - etc etc - Yup! GOT TO GO! Lest this country turn into
The Socialist States of America!

The Imperialistic States of America has been working just fine for me thank you!



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 04:23 PM
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"Joe The Plumber" asked Obama a question and the answer he was given was a very, very bad one. "Spread the Wealth" is a very socialist view.

Since then the phrase "Joe the Plumber" isn't being used to acknowledge a single person. It is the new way to describe the average joe. This guy is an average every day citizen who happened to ask a very good question. He got an answer that made Obama look very very bad. It troubles me that this man is being raked through the coals because he asked this question. Why should the answer to that very good question bring this man such hardships? His name is being ruined, all his personel problems are being thrust into the national spotlight and know even if he wanted to buy the plumbing buisness he couldn't.

I would like to know why Obama isn't telling us that the dirt digging the media is doing is way off base and that they need to stop? McCain, like him or not, is going to bat for this guy and condeming this act of "journalism". It is none of my buisness if this guy had a shady past, got divorced, cannot pay his taxes or anyother dirt that might be dug up. We all have our skeletons in the closet. Would you think it was fair if all of a sudden all those skeletons made its way onto national televison? I know I wouldn't.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by Massgirl


Look... "Joe the plumber" isn't even a license to be a plumber, he makes approx. $40k a year, He was never going to buy his bosses business. He like the politicians, misrepresented himself. If we give the politicians a hard time about doing those things why not Joe. I was held accountable when I misrepresent. My mother called that lying and I got a smackdown for it!. Besides John McCain brought Joe up. McCain put Joe in the spotlight. Anyone put in the spotlight is susceptible to ridicule from either side. Joe's a big dude and seemed to love the satellite trucks on his lawn. he said he was glad to help the election.
If he says his beliefs on national TV, we as TV viewers can have our opinions about Joe. He's not defenseless. Please don't treat him as such. He's a man not a boy!

This is a ridiculous comparison: If we give the politicians a hard time about doing those things why not Joe. I was held accountable when I misrepresent. My mother called that lying and I got a smackdown for it!.

Do I need to remind you "average Joe" is not running for POTUS! You have no idea how much money Joe makes or made. Nor do you know the particulars of his intentions behind trying to go into business. Short of what the "ever so honest" media has sold you, there are no facts to back up your statements.

How in the world is it ok to slander an average citizen and Obama gets away
with ANYTHING he wants? His association with criminals, racist and past terrorist to name a few. Hell, the guy never even produced an authentic
birth certificate. For all we know he is not even eligible to run for president.

Yet the MSM is so focused on portraying a citizen, who has rights by the way,
in such a negative light! All because Obama stood too close to Biden and caught "foot in mouth disease".

What has this country become when we allow disingenuous trivia to take the place of our morals and values. If you think the rest of the world is laughing and mocking us because of Bush, think again. It is because of exact acts such as these.

If we do not get our priorities straight we can kiss our country and everything she stands for goodbye!



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by RKWWWW

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by RKWWWW

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by esdad71
the fact is what if this guy wants to OWN a company and employ 7 plumbers. He does not need to be certified as a plumber, just a sub contractor at that point.

If he wants to perform plumbing, me must be licensed plumber. True if he just wants to general contract, he can sub licensed plumbers out on EVERY job. HOWEVER, he must then be a licensed builder and he is not a licensed builder either so once again, he would be breaking the law.



Perhaps he's working under his boss's license.


All the news reports state him as an unlicensed plumber. I'm guessing if that were not true, he'd be contacting them and demanding a retraction.


I think I see your problem here. You are under the misconception that everyone working at a plumbing shop has to have a plumbing license. It is a common, accepted and legal practice to have one license for a small plumbing company. That license is held by the foreman or company owner. That licensed person's name goes on the job permit. There may be 2-3 unlicensed guys at the job site doing the "grunt" work. If you asked one of those guys what he does for a living he'd say. "I'm a plumber". Just like Joe the plumber did.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by RKWWWW]


According to the news reports, "joe" is an unlicensed plumber, not a plumbers helper or apprentice. In any case, neither make anywhere near enough to purchase a plumbing company for $250,000.

I own a construction company and know quite a few licensed plumbers and none of them have $250,000 to throw around and buy a company.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


Lost me on that way of thinking, sounded a bit convoluted, but hey I'm just a dumb truckdriver.. LOL...

Editing to add... I did a bit of research, and I must appologize for the above statement.. I now understand where you are comming from....

although I do see your point. I still think that the media is mostly to blame. not Just Obama or MCcain... again just a dumb trucker spoutin off... LOL..(taxes are all paid up though)

[edit on 18-10-2008 by SideWynder]



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by RKWWWW

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by RKWWWW

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by esdad71
the fact is what if this guy wants to OWN a company and employ 7 plumbers. He does not need to be certified as a plumber, just a sub contractor at that point.

If he wants to perform plumbing, me must be licensed plumber. True if he just wants to general contract, he can sub licensed plumbers out on EVERY job. HOWEVER, he must then be a licensed builder and he is not a licensed builder either so once again, he would be breaking the law.



Perhaps he's working under his boss's license.


All the news reports state him as an unlicensed plumber. I'm guessing if that were not true, he'd be contacting them and demanding a retraction.


I think I see your problem here. You are under the misconception that everyone working at a plumbing shop has to have a plumbing license. It is a common, accepted and legal practice to have one license for a small plumbing company. That license is held by the foreman or company owner. That licensed person's name goes on the job permit. There may be 2-3 unlicensed guys at the job site doing the "grunt" work. If you asked one of those guys what he does for a living he'd say. "I'm a plumber". Just like Joe the plumber did.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by RKWWWW]


According to the news reports, "joe" is an unlicensed plumber, not a plumbers helper or apprentice. In any case, neither make anywhere near enough to purchase a plumbing company for $250,000.

I own a construction company and know quite a few licensed plumbers and none of them have $250,000 to throw around and buy a company.



The news reports are right. Joe is an unlicensed plumber. I'm not disputing that. Like I said There may be 2-3 unlicensed guys at the job site doing the "grunt" work. If you asked one of those guys what he does for a living he'd say. "I'm a plumber". Just like Joe the plumber did.

It's irrelevent how many plumbers you know that you think do not have the money to buy a plumbing business. None of them are the plumber in Ohio whom you know abosolutely nothing about as far as his finances go. For all you know he's going to inherit a millon bucks.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 05:32 PM
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What the hell is wrong with you people? You ought to be scared #less that an ordinary citizen can't question a presidential candidate without being smeared with personal information by lap-dog journalists. I don't care one bit that Joe owes taxes, is unlicensed, or has been through a divorce. If fact I wouldn't care if he was a plant as long as the hard questions get asked. the media sure isn't going to ask them.

In the end, I don't think JTP's personal issues will matter. All that matters is that Obama uttered the phrase "spread the wealth" and therby clarified his position on the role of government. True Obama supporters don't care, and true McCain supporters aren't surprised, however there may be a net gain for one candidate or the other from the previously "undecided voters". No undecided voter is going to discount Obama's discloser because some jerky plumber dude did or didn't have his personal # together. They will simply use all the information made available to them to elect the candidate who's political philosophy appeals to them.

Thank you Joe for finally getting Obama to state his goals.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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Newsflash: Wealth has already been spread to the upper echelon,
it was called the $700 billion bailout and you can all forget about tax cuts.


United States Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson
Political party: Republican

Joe is the least of your worries...







[edit on 18-10-2008 by Regenmacher]



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by RKWWWW

The news reports are right. Joe is an unlicensed plumber. I'm not disputing that. Like I said There may be 2-3 unlicensed guys at the job site doing the "grunt" work. If you asked one of those guys what he does for a living he'd say. "I'm a plumber". Just like Joe the plumber did.


Then he'd be a lier and would be misrepresenting himself. That's like a crossing guard calling themselves a police officer.


It's irrelevent how many plumbers you know that you think do not have the money to buy a plumbing business. None of them are the plumber in Ohio whom you know abosolutely nothing about as far as his finances go. For all you know he's going to inherit a millon bucks.


So a grunt has more money then a bunch of solid, experienced plumbers??? Unlikely.
The reality is that "joe" has been operating an unlicensed plumbing business as if he were licensed which is ILLEGAL. He can be fined or go to jail or both. That's my whole point.
It makes the whole trade look bad when unlicensed hacks pretend to be something they're not.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by jfj123]





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