My co-workers watched as a girl died

You silly silly gullible people.
No one can get autopsy results in barely 4 days.
Not even rich famous people get them that quick.
Do you know how many tests need to be done?Just for a tox screen?
It takes AGES!
Not to mention the story's even remote possibility, the later backup lie about an autopsy shows the OP is more than likely a child.

reply to post by Star kitten


You cannot be "too hard" on them. I don't care what any apologist/pacifist/whiners say from here on out. They WATCHED HER DIE??? Come on people - that's sickening. That's like the videos of the girl dying in the ER waiting room at a hospital. What is wrong with them? Afraid of being sued? That's no excuse. YOUR money isn't worth a human life.

Those people don't need "counseling", they need a frakkin slap in the face.

Tell them an Army SSG said to grow up.

Jesus.

I don't know if the story is true, but it is plausible, as you do hear of stories where people are too afraid to get involved and someone dies as a result.

In this case, however, it's hard to imagine that all those people were too lame to call for emergency services, even if they were afraid to perform first-aid.

I do know that if this happened where I worked, that'd be my last day on the job and I would go to the media, not an internet bulletin board.

[edit on 2008/10/17 by GradyPhilpott]

This is sad in many ways.

First of all, as a former ER doc, I can tell you the chances of her living after a REAL cardiac arrest OUTSIDE the hospital, and having any residual brain function was about 0.

(People who "made it" always had a pulse, hard as it may have been to feel. Dead people were dead or at least their brains were.) It is a myth that doing something (CPR) makes any difference, and many people go through live feeling guilty that their CPR didn't work. It NEVER works.)

(The defibrillator is a hooker, had they shocked her and done NOTHING else, she might have had a chance.)

I have told my wife, if she thinks I am having a cardiac arrest, she should have a cup of coffee, watch TV for a while, THEN call 911. I don't want her to waste money on a futile attempt to get me back, and I don't want to take the risk of spending my last years, a vegetable in a nursing home.

Also, the key line is "didn't want to be sued".

We live in a lawyer run society. THIS IS SAD. Worse, we keep electing them to office. THIS HAS GOT TO STOP, and law schools should be closed.

I am not surprised at all by this incident.

It show the veil of complacency that has been drawn over the world.

*snip*


My thoughts and prayers go out to her family and TRUE friends. I admire you efforts Star Kitten. You deserve sincere recognition. You did as any decent, moral human being should have.

MOD Note: Review this link: Ending the Political Game on ATS

[edit on 10/18/2008 by semperfortis]

i think this is an urban legend piece of bull #. there is not enough details and just seems too lame to be true yet another asshole who need so reconition on the web. wah wah cry me a river. its pathetic how low some ppl. will stupe to get attention!!! you want to get attention go somewhere else and get it, start your own blog on your own ite someone can hold you hand while you cry yourself to sleep you loser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First of all, I am so very sorry for the loss of your co-worker. It must have been a very difficult thing to walk in on - I can't even imagine what you must have went through.

Secondly, I think there was a study done of group mentality somewhere some years ago and if I remember correctly, the focus of the study was to determine how people react within group situations, especially in emergency situations such as this. I believe what they determined was that most people in a group will wait until one person actually moves to do something before the rest of the group becomes actively and directly involved. The study revealed that one person (and in some cases, sometimes two people) will become fast thinkers who put everyone else in motion and without these "leaders," the group will not act.

Does anyone else know/recall this study?

I witnessed a similar thing a couple years back. While bowling in a league a man a few lanes down collapsed. A group of about 10 people surrounded his body as it lay on the floor and they did nothing. He was also turning blue and no one even there even checked his pulse.

At that time I knew nothing about CPR, but I remembered there was a fire dept. right next door so I ran as fast as I could and brought two paramedics back to the man. They tried a defibulator and CPR but he was already gone. I have since learned CPR because I never want to experience that again. I just cannot let go of the visual of all these people standing around gawking at this poor man without doing a thing. I am starting to believe this way of thinking has somehow been installed into the population.

We no longer help the nieghbor in need or the homeless guy on the corner begging for food. We are all to worry about being sued or being involved in something that might take away time or money.

I am amazed at how complete the dark plans of human division and fear has been installed into every aspect of our lives.

Human Contact:
They take away human contact, things as simple as hugs or kissing your child goodbye on the cheek.

Family time:
We all have to work long days 40+ hours a week or more. If you have children, after working all day you arrive home and the time is spent helping and doing hours of homework and reading as well as all the other normal requirements like dinner, baths.

They try and take away every free moment that could be shared as quality family time and talking with your kids. Its as if they work to extinguish the love we have for one another.

A person working in the "corporate" enviroment is no longer valued for their skills and/or dedication to an employer. You can be at a job for 5-10-15 years and be discarded like garbage without a reason or cause.

Every show on television has turned into reality entertainment where we witness constant competition, belittle your partner, stab a friend in the back. It sickens me to no end.

Taking God out of every aspect of public life like school, government buildings and anywhere else someone might be affected by spirituality. I don't care what anyone says, when we had God in school children were more respectful and thoughtful. With the judgement of good/bad hanging over your head, you tend to reflect more before acting on impulse.

It is unreal how we follow these dark trends that they have laid out for us to follow like ants to the honey.

It is just my opinion of the bigger picture. Life has become to micro-managed! Every aspect of our lives private and public has been transformed into a 24 hour monitored Corporate/Government enviroment.

It used to be a much more simple and fulfilling life.

We have now become empty shells, drones in the hive where our hollow lives are spent trying to keep up with the Jones's or who makes more. We have replaced love and care with meaningless materials and instant gratification. Sometimes I wonder if this is what the bible meant by "the dead shall walk the Earth"

Does anyone else see this, you understand what I mean right?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by sdrawkcabII

 

I don' t know, a young woman dying of a heart attack, where she works, as thirty people stand around and watch, and no one even calls an ambulance? This is too much, these people would have to be a bunch of zombies. If people driving past a guy laying in the road can make it to international news, this story should be even bigger.

You seem to have the perception that everything in this world happens logically and all people operate by such logic. Why do you perceive it to be so? And since when has this been the case?

reply to post by dreams n chains


I completely agree with you, friend!

I once helped a female colleague who tripped and fell heavily injuring her knee, my reward was a call from a lawyer who was trying to claim that I had helped without explicit PERMISSION, and that she may have incurred a back and/or arm injury from me helping her up. Fortunately it came to nothing.

If I saw someone keel over in the office, I would call 911 and then call our medical volunteers, but I would not intervene directly because I am not trained to do so.

If I saw someone collapse in the street I would call 911 and not intervene further.

Mouth to mouth resuscitation without the appropriate equipment can also expose you to potentially lethal diseases.

There are a lot of factors to consider before you jump in, I'm afraid that's the world we live in.

I am still reminded of the man who performed the Heimlich (spelling?) on a restaurant patron who was choking, in the process of doing so he broke one of the guy's ribs, and was then sued for his actions.

reply to post by badmedia


Unfortunately, I think there is no way to "get through" to such people except by hitting them where it hurts: their wallet.

I am so sorry you had to witness such criminal neglect on part of so many people, OP.

I am even more sorry - appalled, shocked, would be the wright word - that such a negligent attitude seems to be becoming almost a common practice or something.

Have any of you seen "The Time Machine" (1960)?
Tell me if the behaviour of these people does not remind you of those blond morons of the distant "future"...?

I know, it's off-topic... I am just blowing off steam.
I am too shocked for intelligent words.

When I was a little girl, I remember some adults around me reminiscing about what had been apparently the most shocking case they had ever heard about. They sent me out, so I could not hear it, but I did hear and remember the name: Kitty Genovese.

Years later, I looked it up.

And now...
Would that case even be shocking anymore?






[edit on 17-10-2008 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by mf_luder
reply to post by Star kitten

 

You cannot be "too hard" on them. I don't care what any apologist/pacifist/whiners say from here on out. They WATCHED HER DIE??? Come on people - that's sickening. That's like the videos of the girl dying in the ER waiting room at a hospital. What is wrong with them? Afraid of being sued? That's no excuse. YOUR money isn't worth a human life.

Those people don't need "counseling", they need a frakkin slap in the face.

Tell them an Army SSG said to grow up.

Jesus.

I am a "pacifist whiner", MF, but I couldn't agree more.

(Sorry if this doesn't contribute significantly to the thread, but I think reinforcing condemnation with one's opinion should account for something.)

This is the mentality of people today.Do nothing but sit and watch.How many people if they had a choice would save a dogs life instead of another human being?The answer is a lot of them.If I were in a situation like this I would have tried to save her if I knew positvely they would sue me and win.One can only hope if they need help that they are around people like yourself.Do not feel bad about this as you did all you could.You should be proud of your actions.

reply to post by Artista


I was just about to bring that point up.
I don't know about the study, but people 'organize' themselves subconsciously as to what their part in society is. Most are followers and a few are leaders. It's rare to have a room full of people and not one of them be a leader, but it does happen. In this situation, all the followers will wait for someone to step up and be a leader. But your situation is strange because you seemed to be the leader and still they didn't follow. In your case, the main reason, as you said, was fear. I still don't know why they couldn't call an ambulance though...
In fact, it seems you could almost be sued for not calling an ambulance in that situation.

Man i have a similar story. Well kind of...

My sister who has down syndrome often had trouble eating. She would chew her food a bit and then just swallow. Well a couple of times she choked. My father was usually the one to save her by doing the Heimlich Maneuver. Well one day when my dad wasn't home, and we were eating dinner my sister started to choke on some chicken meat (god she always chocks on the chicken meat). Anyway my mother started to panic and try to tap her back to force the chiken out, but it wasnt working, she didn't really know how to do the heimlich, and i didnt either, i was about 12 or something. We all got really scared and went out our apartment door while my mother started yelling help, help. Everyone in the building came out of the doors and just watched as my mother was saying "help help, some one help" while still tapping and doing all she could to try to get that @$^@^ chicken out. THEY Just stood there, no one said anything, they just stood there...

I mean it was probably a minuet or more that my sister was chocking and she was turning colors. I didn't no what to do, my mother was just doing all she could. Eventually with one big pat the chicken went flying out, and my sister had a breath of relief. My mother didn't say anything, she just kind of gave everyone a mean look, and went inside. But man i was thinking that hole day, how could people be like this...seeing someone in trouble and dien and not helping them AT ALL, just sitting and watching!

They are all just $#%%@**, all just stuck in their little lives, going from point A to point B everyday...And when something happens, they panic and don't no how to handle the situation.

This really shows just how mindless our society is!

aslo everyone should go out and learn how to do the basic Heimlich Maneuver, CPR, and how to work a deffribulator. There are good videos on youtube, and you can always take a class for free i think at your local hospital or something...but it is a important skill that needs to be learned!

Those people in that office, technically they commited murder if you think about it. Atleast you had the commen logic to go in there and try to save her life...You are honestly a good person, and probably a good friend. Blessings to the woman's family, and i hope the girl is in a better place, which i know she is...



[edit on 17-10-2008 by ATSGUY]

Terrible...just terrible.

Some people are just not "wired" for action. Lets say half the group was "wired" for action, and actually did something wile the other half stood around, is the other half at fault? No, because people tried to help. Now what if everything there is not "wired" for action, and they freeze up, suddenly it is their fault because there was not a single person there with the correct "wiring" in their brain.

Not trying to defend them, but I know people personally who would freeze up in a situation like that, and I can see where coming in after the fact it would be easier to take charge because you didn't witness the whole thing.

Should they have done something? Yes. But if they were in shock and couldn't do anything is it their fault? I don't think so. Its ok for 1 or 2 people to freeze up in a group and be useless but if everyone does, suddenly they are at fault.

Granted I know its unlikely that everyone in the group would freeze up...but it could happen. Also sounds like it was what 3am? is that right? At that hour they were all practically zombies anyway.

As far as them being sued...why not counter sue, for being put in that situation, at 27 you shouldn't be having a heart attack, Was she overweight? If so, should they be able to sue the family for that? That she was unhealthy and thus put them in that situation? I don't think they should be able to, nor do I think the family should be able to sue. I mean really if you believe in god, then won't they get what they deserve?

I know that I would have at least been able to call 911 ive been in situations before...not really with someone dying but it involved a fire, I had someone call 911 while I was trying to put it out...I would like to think I would be able to act in a life or death situation, but until you have been tested you don't know. And if you don't know how you would react, how can you judge others actions?

I almost got in a fight over something like this after 9/11. A friend of mine started saying he would have done this or done that, and that the people on the planes were just sheeple and that they deserved to die. That was the first time I really took at look at myself, and really had to question "What would I have done?", honestly I can't answer that. Because of that I can't judge these people, but at the same time someone should have done something.

Very very sad, I feel for both sides.

Edit to add: I think we all would like to believe we would help...and thus despise anyone who does not act.

Again I would like to stress IM NOT DEFENDING ANYONE HERE, just looking at it at a distance.


[edit on 17-10-2008 by uninspired]

Originally posted by Res Ipsa

Originally posted by badmedia
Terrible story. But I think her parents are wrong to sue. Not that I agree with them just standing around. But because they are merely looking for revenge through financial means, with a bonus for themselves in wealth.

No matter if they realize it or not, they are doing the exact thing that possibly caused their daughters death in the first place if those people were worried about being sued.

-------------------------------------

I thought I was going to be the first to post but I was too long winded.

But the parents are NOT wrong to sue. You can't put a price on losing a family member but our legal system allows for it. I would sue the company, I would sue the workers for not calling 911, I would make every participant rue the day that they stood around and did nothing.
What will they learn from being sued? The company will make damn sure that every employee is trained to dial 9*1*1, even if it takes 40 hours of training to teach them how to find the numbers on the phone!
I would make them train on "the good sameratin law" and I would take 40hrs at minimum wage to do this.
....If it is true that the hospital or ambulance people said that she could have been saved if CPR was done sooner or they got there sooner than I would be going for some huge money.
Now, this is coming from a guy that is less than a year away from taking the BAR and who intends on being a Christian attorney. I'm not going to be a piece of sheet ambulance chaser, but this is a "crime" and I would bring all my passion to a case like this. If anybody just stood around and let one of my children die like that.....they would pay for the rest of their lives so they would never ever forget what they did. If it were me I would offer them the opportunity to work in an emergency room of a hosptial for 4000 hrs to pay it off. Or join the peace corp. Money seems to be the only thing that makes people accountable though.

Totally agree with you! Those people standing around, doing nothing, not having called an ambulance are disgusting people - poor examples of human beings and deserve to be locked away for "failure to stop and render aid". That's a charge that's usually applied to drivers involved in a hit and run who leave the scene, but it's no different in this case!

I am not at all surprised, when I was working construction a 80+ year old woman fell off the curb on one of my job sites and hit her head on the corner of a metal road plate. It wasn't a serious injury but she did split her forehead open and I immediately rushed to her aid, as I turned around, my foreman was walking away as fast as he could, my other coworker was hiding behind my truck, and my other coworker was about 20 feet away just staring at me.

She was trying to leave with blood gushing from her forehead and I grabbed a first aid kit and some gauze and iodine and held it to her forehead. In hindsight I realized the iodine was hurting her but our first aid training was very rudimentary. I was just trying to do something to help her.

Luckily a doctor happened to walk by and he cleaned up my work nicely and we made her goto the hospital even though she didn't want to.

My coworkers later approached me and gave me # for touching her saying I could have gotten aids from touching her blood or sued or this and that.

What the hell is mankind coming to?