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My co-workers watched as a girl died

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posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia
You can say it's justified to sue. But it is still just seeking revenge. You can make the argument that it's ok to poke out the eye of a person who poked another persons eye. But you are still just getting revenge. Eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

I hope the story is fake.

Badmedia, you seem pissy today, because you're only seeing the bad. Surely these people aren't just "out for revenge" but seeking answers. I know what it's like to want answers when a loved one dies, I've been there, there is a GREAT RELIEF you get when understanding shines it's beautiful light on a tragedy. Sometimes that light needs to be guided in for questioning or the opportunity will slip away forever. The sooner they can get the answers they seek, the greater the odds of getting the whole truth and not the diluted version.




posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Oreyeon
This is a sad situation and story. But those people that let her die need to be punished in some manner or another. And I find it funny that they are being sued now, when that was their justification for letting her die in the first place. I say they are getting what they deserve. Nobody is going to sue you for saving their life. I think they did something to her and were afraid she would sue them for that if she survived.


Yes indeed I think that something else was going on. Maybe, as somebody else suggested, indeed a prank gone dramatically wrong. Anyway, even if the only crime these zombies committed was to NOT call the ambulance, they should pay pay pay and pay for it. And of course the parents are going to sue, what else can they do?? Say: O well #s happens, let's forget all about it?

As to the OP, I hope you get professional help. Witnessing somebody dying or allready dead is in itself traumatizing. And then to be the only "awake" person and having to scream for aid....



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by Shadoefax
 


I'm not sure it was mentioned elsewhere in this thread but one thing people need to know about CPR. Those of you who are certified to perform CPR should already know this:

Frequently ribs are broken with the pressure CPR places on the sternum. Some studies quote up to 30% of cardiac arrest victims have broken ribs as a result of CPR. This happens more frequently the older the victim since the cartilage is less compliant and the bones more easily crackable. But remember, it's better to have a cracked rib then be dead.

This and more info on CPR can be found here: Ask Questions about C.P.R.

My heart goes out to the original poster. Those coworkers that stood beside and just watched are IMHO not people at all. They should be ashamed of themselves for doing NOTHING.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by seamuszharper
 


I'm not surprised ribs crack due to the sternum having to break in the first place to perform CPR correctly. I've never had to do it yet, but one of my friends on placements went to a care home for 3 weeks for retired RAF/Military personnel, and one his first day had to perform CPR. I felt so bad for him then, the poor old man passed away, not surprised mind, he was old.
I guess brittle bone has a part to play in old age too. See I do remember some stuff from training


Thanks for that fact though - to me it was just my blind guess, but to know it's fact makes it much easier for me to not have to worry about it if I were put in a CPR situation!



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 05:28 PM
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The fact is, we as the human race are everything except human.
People just stand there and do nothing, we try to justify our inability of action by citing the laws, and our fear of them.

I have been able to provide some assistance to some people in emergencies, I used to camp a lot, I had to take some courses in First aid and the like, and as the OP I have been confronted with the useless stare of the mindless drone.

Instead of helping, constantly getting in the way, expressing opinions and views that had nothing to do with the situation at hand.

Its easy to get disillusioned at human kind, but in extreme situations, if one hasn't had any sort of training its probable that the shock would just bee toomuch to handle.
We can achieve much more that what we currently have, we cannot aloow ourselves to be degraded to the mindless fearfull drone some wants us to be.

Get training, and get ready to act when the need arises.

I wouldn't want to get back to work with those people, one can understand them of course, but that does not mean one has to agree with them...
We are our worst enemy.

thanks for sharing...


On another note, what is it with people calling everything they read as "fake" or "hoax", some people just need to get out of their comfort zone more often, and look at the "real" world , not the tiny bubbles of "reality" we sometimes find ourselves immersed into...



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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On another note, what is it with people calling everything they read as "fake" or "hoax", some people just need to get out of their comfort zone more often, and look at the "real" world , not the tiny bubbles of "reality" we sometimes find ourselves immersed into...


I agree completely!

Unfortunately, it seems too many people don't prescribe to the old adage from good old Ben Franklin: “Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.” Instead, it's "don't believe anything at all."

These are the kinds of people who look at just one thing and automatically draw a conclusion without trying to figure out if the information is true or not. When they should be checking other sources to draw an informed conclusion. I see this entirely too much these days.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 07:00 PM
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You should be thoroughly commended for your efforts. It's good to know people like yourself exist in the world. Regarding your coworkers, I'm going to speculate that they are not evil - but they were suffering from pure "stage fright." An absolute fear, panic, anxiety took over - that completely debilitates the person. Some people can't literally even move their body the fear takes over so bad. Their "macho" response afterwards was, "Oh, I didn't help because I didn't want to be sued, oh, I didn't think she was really sick, etc.etc.etc." No, they were scared sh*tless out of their minds and simply froze. Having been a coach in the performing arts, I've seen it so many times. Logical thoughts like, "Just call 911" never even crossed their brains. Can they be blamed for that? I don't know. You obviously didn't experience it - and btw, you are probably the type that could actually perform well on stage. I hope they find the cause of her death - it's so sad to see such a young person taken so soon from this world.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by seamuszharper
 


thats the thing, we are becoming so jaded, so empty, so naive, that we'd rather believe in some nonsense out of the tv.
its the younger generations the ones that seem to follow this train of thought, we used to rely on the younger generations to turn the old ways around, nowadays, I'm not so sure where are we heading, sometimes it seems, we are on a one way tunnel to something worse...



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by Star kitten
 


upon reading this very sad tragedy i too feel very dissapointed at these so called humans watch a person die and have a dumb excuse of being sued
you to me are an angel for the care you have shown at the moment of need how are these people going to live with them self god only knows
sad sad sad ,god bless you.

zafer



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 09:09 PM
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I would quit my job and help the parents in the law suite. Any 5 year old can call 911. Your co-workers may have something to hide. They may have had a hand in her death like a joke gone wrong. I would have to see justice done. Watch your back if you stay there as you may be the next one laying on the floor dieing. If I was a judge I would see that every one there made to pay for not calling 911.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 11:24 PM
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About 12 years ago my brother was shopping at a mall in Seattle, when he happened to see an elderly gentleman laying on the floor in front of a food court, and an elderly woman crying and shaking him.

Shoppers were just walking by casually, looking down and continuing on as if they saw nothing. My brother went into panic mode and ran over to the couple, and without knowing how to do CPR, he tried anyway, based on what he saw on TV. He continued giving mouth to mouth and chest compressions, the best way he knew how.

During this time, many people walked by and no one stopped. No one. On lookers kept their distance clear across as far away as they could.

The ambulance came, and they were able to save the gentleman. Days later, the elderly woman called my brother up to thank him and wanted to give him something as a reward for helping her. But he turned it down.

He was shocked of course, to see this man near death, and not know how to help, but he used to talk more about how sick he felt in his stomach about all of those people who just walked by not offering anything.

I just do not understand.

I'm very sorry for what you went through with our co-worker. I cannot imagine how frightened you were, and I commend you for being the only one willing to throw out the idea of being sued, just to perform a basic human act of saving another's life.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 12:17 AM
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reply to post by Star kitten
 


Absolutely terrible and sad. Your co-workers should all be ashamed of themselves. They are cowards with NO integrity. Just like the lawyers they so fear.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by mmariebored
 
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Though anyone can sue, if there's a good Samaritan Law in effect in that area, and legal precedent to back it up and the courts are acting favorably it might have clout.

But consider - though this sounds callous - if a person has a heart attack and there is no one there, they may die. Undiagnosed weak hearts do exist.

The important thing to know -after the fact- analyzing as we are, is what the law is.

Giving 'emotional' advice doesn't help a lot (again after the fact dissection of the case). Some countries have a statute that there is a legal duty to aid and you are in breach if you do not do something.

The apparent or alleged fact was there was a defibrillator machine on premises and rained CPR in evidence. So we need to explain this VERY curious fact that flies in the face of logic

Maybe there was a history and someone had heartburn, thought they were having a cardiac event (they're sometimes similar) and the defibrillator was used and someone got injured and someone got sued.

Not trying to ake excuses. Just pondering.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.







[edit on 19/10/2008 by Badge01]



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 03:47 AM
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Originally posted by Badge01

and someone had heartburn, thought they were having a cardiac event (they're sometimes similar) and the defibrillator was used and someone got injured and someone got sued.



hi - in THEORY , when using the " automatic " type units - that will not happen - the device has sophisticated heart rate monitoring equipment built in and its on board computer decides if it should deliver a charge , and the joules to use

there is NO operator control over these units - you just put the pad on the chest - and it either delivers a shock or an error message

it will not work if placed anywhere but over a dysfunctional heart , and will only deliver a shock if the heart is in arrest

it SHOULD refuse to operate if place on a patient having a fit , stroke or other none cardiac collapse

here is the wikki inetry for AED devices

[edit on 19-10-2008 by ignorant_ape]



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by mmariebored
Badmedia, you seem pissy today, because you're only seeing the bad. Surely these people aren't just "out for revenge" but seeking answers. I know what it's like to want answers when a loved one dies, I've been there, there is a GREAT RELIEF you get when understanding shines it's beautiful light on a tragedy. Sometimes that light needs to be guided in for questioning or the opportunity will slip away forever. The sooner they can get the answers they seek, the greater the odds of getting the whole truth and not the diluted version.


Wasn't meaning to be pissy, we can disagree without hating each other. Seeking answers is fine, I have no problem with that. But you don't need to sue for it. How is it not an act of revenge? If you sue, you are wanting these people to suffer through loss of money for what happened. And that is revenge.

I realize it's not a popular opinion, and that people feel it is justified because of what happened. But I have to call it as I see it, it's eye for an eye. You poked my eye, so I am justified in poking your eye or punishment of equal "value".



[edit on 19-10-2008 by badmedia]



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 05:34 AM
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Originally posted by emmy
reply to post by Interestinggg
 


Maybe it is a hox, maybe not. People die everyday, but do you see the papers reporting yet another death?! everyday someone dies but at the end of the day, not everyone will be in the media for it.

And to other people who have been wondering about the cause - perfectly healthy people can drop down dead - i don't understand why some people can question it? Maybe my status is just right mind, always confused, as per

Did I say anything about the media?
The fact remains if a young healthy 27yo dropped dead of unexplained reasons they could not say it was a heart attack until the autopsy was completed.And there would indeed be a full autopsy.
And in cases like these it would take weeks minimum.
The OP is saying this happened only 3 days before, and had been told it was a heart attack at the scene?Didn't explain how she new it was a heart attack.
Paramedics are not qualified to give out causes of death for situations like this.
Then the OP comes back and lies because it forgot about this mess up.
And says they got the autopsy results from the girls parents?
Only 3 days later?
What a moron not only did it mess up the first lie, its cover up lie it messed up to.
Go and call the medical examiner and ask them.
They will tell you that to get autopsy results in 3 days for an unexplained death is impossible.
Think of Heath Ledge, Anna Nicole Smith????
Because they have to test everything before they can make a conclusion.
Even if they cut it open and see a huge heart blockage, or a huge ruptured aneurysm, they still have to test for everything else FIRST.
Im over trying to explain this to you people to stop you looking stupid.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by Star kitten
 


Appalling, I agree.

Sorry to strain at gnats and swallow camels, but "...I went over to see what was going on, and lying on the floor in the middle of them, was a 27 year old girl..."

I think any 27 year old female should be called a woman, not a girl. If it were a 27 year old man would you have said 'boy?'



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by Badge01
reply to post by mmariebored
 

The apparent or alleged fact was there was a defibrillator machine on premises and rained CPR in evidence. So we need to explain this VERY curious fact that flies in the face of logic
Maybe there was a history and someone had heartburn, thought they were having a cardiac event (they're sometimes similar) and the defibrillator was used and someone got injured and someone got sued.
Not trying to ake excuses. Just pondering.

That's exactly why they need to go to court, to explain themselves.
The ones standing around may very well have a "good excuse" for doing so and, if not given the chance to bring that understanding to the table, may find themselves being a target for abuse from the victim's family.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 

It's not like they can bring them to court just to question them. Sometimes, if people aren't forced to answer questions, they won't, they'll slam the door on the questioner's face. Court is a good thing, in most cases.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by Star kitten
 

makes me sick to think people will stand around watching others die. true it could be shock or more probably a morbid fascination. all people react differently to scenarios but for lots of them to onlook and not help is proof of the society you live in . talk is cheap ,life is cheaper . no doubt all those seeking councilling are either trying to deal with the fact that someone died in front of them [how innapropriate]or that they failed to help. if your a trained first aider / medic/ rescue you should be prepared to use your skills before volenteering to do the course for a break from the office . as for the parents suing i hate the whole litigation culture, but if it helps them grieve and makes people think twice before ignoring someone in peril then fairplay. i volenteer for an emergency service and its scary to think eveytime we do a first aid course
we are reminded we have a large team of lawyers behind the institute



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