My co-workers watched as a girl died

That is such an excellent point!!!! that is why I am trying to get ALL staff where I work to be trained in First Aid/CPR

Hmmm. This is truly very sad to hear. I find myself very disturbed by what seems to be either a bunch of inept individuals, or really strange voyeurs with unusual interests, or normal members of our society that are so programed by reality show entertainment that reality itself has become unreal to them. Yeah I know that there are those that say that they are concerned about being sued, but isn't there a human impulse that exist to give aid to anyone in distress? Or am I just being niave? To the original poster: I haven't read through the entire thread yet,but would ask if you still work at this job, Do you now find it difficult to look at these same people in the same way and straight in the face?

I thought I'd just throw a point in, something I just remembered from my Medical Training (For those who are just unaware anyways)

You should always perform CPR or use a Defib (obviously not if they're conscious, haha!). You do not officially have the call whether said injured person is 'dead' or not. Only a Doctor has that call, even til Paramedics turn up - so, for those of you who say you would act on impulse, bit of handy info At least by doing something at least that person might still have a chance of survival

reply to post by Star kitten

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star kitten i hope that you are proud of yourself for trying to save a life well done, you at least care, its a sad disturbed world we live in and i am thankful that there is people like you around that give me faith that all is not lost

I dont really have time to look over all the rest of the pages of this post but OP, i completely understand your, what i would call, outright rage. I am a firefighter and EMT and coming on scene where a croud of people are just standing around the victim watching, while someone could at least be attempting to perform CPR is madening. I am proud to work with a class of some of the bravest men and women in the world and i'm sorry your Co-workers couldnt or wouldnt show the slightest form of bravery, afraid to save a life because they might get sued, i'm sure the parents of their 27 y/o would cherish and applaud your efforts to save their daughter. very sad

The 'Impassive Bystandard Syndrome'

www.washingtonpost.com...

The country hit the rut because the people who could have done something did nothing but watch it happen.

reply to post by Star kitten

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Oh WOW! That is horrible!! I would be sueing big time myself if that was a spouse or child of mine. Everyone should learn CPR!! That is dishaertening to read. Poor girl!!!

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A 27 year old with no cardiac history who just drops dead is either taking birth control pills or cocaine.

I applaud the OP for heroic actions taken. I can't imagine you even finishing your shift with those people.

I don't know what the laws are like in Australia but here in the states, if the company had 2 safety officers trained in AED/CPR then they would be liable for negligent homicide, not the company.

I'm truly sorry you had to go through such a traumatic event.

reply to post by Star kitten

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30 chest compressions 2 breaths...you can save a life...Thank you for trying
They will have to live with themselves..join the lawsuit...sue them but in the end NO ONE CAN BE FORCED TO HELP once you start to help you can not stop..until you are unable to continue..sounds like you did your level best.
I am sorry but if it were me...I would be going off work on long term disability
for trauma caused by the lack of reaction by the other staff..How could you even look at them..If it was within my purview..I would quit.
Thank you on behalf of the HUMANITY that cares to try.
30 COMPRESSIONS and 2 breaths....Repeat 30 and 2 30 and 2

I would go back just long enough to beat the snot out of everyone that stood around.
If this story is actually true, it is a disgusting commentary on how degradent our society has become. Not only the frivilous (sp?) lawsuits, but the general apathy of people in general.... NAY, not just apathy, apathy combined with CRIMINAL stupidity!

People are completely brainwashed, and this is a perfect point in case!

Disgusting.

reply to post by SUNRAY06

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This is a complete side-note here, but this is worthy of this sort of topic...

At one of the places I work, they have decided to mandate people first aid training (having been a combat certified life-saver in the Army, I thought the training futile, I'm up on first-aid). Anyhow, apparently now they are teaching CPR with NO resusitation... No breaths at all!

RIDICULOUS!!!

Apparently the risk of... Well, I don't even know WHY they would remove this from the training... Over inflation of the lungs?
Contracting hepatitis?... Anyhow, people are crazy.

Based on extensive research the American Heart Association has found that mouth-to-mouth has NO effect on increasing the oxygen level in the blood, because you have to stop compressions to do it.

When compressions stop the blood is no longer moving and can't pick up oxygen from the lungs.

Based on several years of studies on bystander CPR where bystanders were reluctant to perform mouth-to-mouth, the AHA found that people who had compressions only had a HIGHER survival rate.

So now the recommendation is that when someone is not breathing you should begin compressions FAST and HARD at 100 per minute. That is an incredibly fast pace, but they found that oxygen content in the blood was still high enough after several minutes of CPR that it could still perfuse the brain, as long as the blood is moving.

Of course 911 and AED should be done as soon as possible, because CPR alone will almost never work without defibrillation. CPR is only a temporary measure to keep the brain working until definitive care arrives.

This situation is tragic and awful. In my state responders cannot be sued for performing CPR or using an AED, even if not trained. Ironically they can't be sued even if they ARE trained and don't use it. This was done to encourage businesses and public agencies to install public access AEDs and encourage their use.

It's hard to second guess in situations like this.

I was trained in CPR a long time ago when I was a lifeguard, so I might be able to figure out a response, but I'd be hesitant to step in.

BUT, why does the company have a defib?

You gotta think they were enabled and had insurance to allow this. Otherwise you don't have a defib.

You also have to have regular training and even run drills.

Finally there's one sure method of not having this happen again. Have everyone sign a release and intent not to sue at the time of employment. Now some few people might not want to sign a release, making it hard (at panic time do you go check people's file?)

It's in Australia so the Company Health and Safety officer would be in charge of getting the program up and running and making sure the defib was always charged up.

But there ARE a lot of potential stumbling blocks. People do panic and freeze. (sounds strange if there were people trained standing there).

Sorry you had to be traumatized over this. Can you get some release signing program set up through the company and ask if they are insured to cover rescuer's liability?

Good post!

Not sure if anyone has asked this but:

Is there a link to a news story about this? It's a great anecdote and all, but it's also pretty unbelievable. A giant group of people sat around and watched for about 10 minutes? At work no less. I could see it in public, maybe, but at work?

Where the hell are the bosses? I've worked in a call center, long ago. You can't hide from the bosses. The second you get off the phone they are all over you about your call work time, unavailability times, etc.

I'm sorry, call me stubborn, but I have to see this to believe it.

(And like someone else pointed out, why do they have a defibrillator?)

No excuse for this. You can not be sued for trying to saving someones life.

It is called "scope of practice" as long as you are within your scope of practice you cannot be sued for any mistake you make in an emergency situation. You can only be sued if you step beyond this as in administering drugs or trying to do surgery.

These laws are put into place to make sure no one hesitates.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I have had some experience in this type of situation. (One of the reasons I haven't read the whole thread. It's depressing enough having lived through this type of thing.)

The jurisdiction I live in has a good samaritan law which is designed to prevent legal action being taken against good samaritans for most types of assistance rendered. I took a CPR course and was told by the trainer that anything done is usually better than nothing done, at least until the EMT people arrive.

The impression that I got from the course I took is that CPR is an evolving art. There is discussion as to whether it is even necessary to give support breaths as long as the airway is open and the chest compressions are done properly.

If you know absolutely nothing and are considered a slow learner by all your friends, you can still give chest compressions. You just put the heel of one hand in the middle of the breast bone at the level of the nipples with the other hand on top of it to bring your weight to bear, and depress the chest quickly about two inches and release without taking your hands away from the breastbone (sternum).

This should be done about 100 times a minute. "Bop, bop, bop, bop, stayin' alive!" The Bee Gees tune apparently moves along at about that clip. If you do 95 beats or 80 beats or 70 beats, it's still better than 0 beats.

Apologies if someone else already posted something like this.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by ipsedixit]

I just wanted to comment on one other aspect of the OP's story. The fact that the crowd around the dying person did nothing speaks to the difficulty that untrained people have in springing into action. The most obvious difficulty being "what to do?"

It's worth it to take a CPR course if you have the opportunity. A lot of post trauma stress can be avoided if you have a health professional clue you in a little about what is to be expected in various sorts of emergency situations. And clue you in about what can reasonably be expected from performing CPR and other sorts of first aid.

Statistically speaking, CPR is not as effective as the public might think. That is one reason there is such a push to get AED machines into as wide a circulation as possible.

These are automated external defibrillators, designed to shock the heart out of a fatal kind of arrhythmia. Time is the most important factor in treating people who are not getting enough oxygen via blood circulation. The quicker the normal heart rhythm can be restored the greater the reduction of damage, particularly to the brain of the victim.

The course I took was fun because we had a very good instructor and a lively group of catering professionals in the class. I was on another course with another group and a different instructor which wasn't as fun and in which I didn't learn as much.

I'm more mentally at ease now, though, knowing what I know.

Very sad. I hate humanity. I really do. There are not enough people out there that care anymore. I was jogging once and had a mild heat stroke. I fell out on a major street and laid there while probably 20 cars went by. Finally a Fire Fighter stopped (thank God) and drove me to the ER.