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The Problem with Clones and Spirit

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posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 06:57 PM
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"Now, the grid, your energy field, is a grid of intent. Your energy
field is what keeps you together because you are literally created
from your own intent. That is why Spirit can attach to us. Do you
follow? If an organism or a structure is created, cloned or copied,
Spirit cannot attach to it. This is the problem the Greys have with
the hybrids, and this is why the human clones do not have an energy
field, because Spirit can't attach to it, and this is also because there
was no intent in it's creation (in terms of self-maintaining consciousness).
There was, in your terms, no spiritual intent to create it."
"The non-physical pattern of your body is composed of virtually
uncountable "blocks' of intent. Each assigned a particular function,
and each specifically directed toward a creation and sustenance of
a particular part of your body."
"As long as you restrict your inquiry only to the physical forms
perceivable, you will all have questions and no answers. Just as the
atom is constructed or originates out of intent, and not physical
matter, so does the body find its origin in a plane quite hidden from
your scientific instruments. The blueprint for the body is not contained
in a genetic structure. The chromosomes simply reflect the greater
origin or the intent. It is the grid-work, the structuring of intent and
desire that serves as the blueprint for your bodies. And, that intent is
then literally flushed out to create the shape of the body."
Q: Do all organisms have a soul?
A: No. Apparently they have intent, but the "chief cook and bottle washer" of all that intent is the Soul. Some
lifeforms, as a group, have 'herd souls'. An example of this in practice is when you see a flock of birds all turn at the
same time. These type of 'souls', however, are not like our individualized Souls. They are more like a collective
consciousness.

Q:So in actuality, what is actually controlling the sustenance of the human body in the normal human is our own
consciousness, projected from the 11th dimension, which is in fact us.
A: Yes. You know..well, you're already having the intent because you are not vaporizing in front of us. I think the
whole point in them sharing all of this with us is for us to be able to trace back where the intent is actually coming
from, and for us to see ourselves for who we really are.
Q: As the population increases, does that mean that there are more souls...
A: There is more intent. Other beings who want to express themselves here. The soul creates the intent. The intent is
you. A population increase is just more souls wanting to have intent here. According to the Andromedans, there were
the same amount of Souls or Spirits in our universe until March 23,1994, when several new ones apparently stepped
in. This was when the new 12th density started to create itself, because of the intent of the Is-ness.

www.exopolitics.org...




posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 08:01 PM
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1. White space. Use it. The OP is difficult to read and follow due to it's lack of white space. (yes, I know it's actually dark grey here)

2. This is all just baseless words. I guess it's the right forum section for it, but you may as well just be reading the transcript for a rejected star trek episode.



posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 08:06 PM
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Do you make a distinction between soul and spirit? Ive always wondered about that.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:53 AM
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reply to post by bluemooone2
 


I like to think they are the same.

I don't think they're different really, no.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 03:25 AM
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OP: "If an organism or a structure is created, cloned or copied,
Spirit cannot attach to it"

Clones have souls, they can't sing, but they have souls, unless you think one of these chaps has "soul" and not the other.




[edit on 18-10-2008 by stringue]



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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These two are twins not clones. There is a difference. A clone is grown using another humans intent , the people or persons making the clone, not the soul using its own intent before reincarnating into this world via the unborn child.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by bluemooone2
Do you make a distinction between soul and spirit? Ive always wondered about that.


Yes they are the same.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 01:45 PM
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"Now, the grid, your energy field, is a grid of intent. Your energy
field is what keeps you together because you are literally created
from your own intent."

Perhaps you could rephrase how you explain things?
Ill give you an example.

Now, the grid that may or may not exist, your energy field that may or may not exist, may be a gird of intent.
Your energy field that may or may not exist, may be what keeps you together because you may be literally created from your own intent.



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by Reevster
 


"A clone is grown using another humans intent "

OK, same situation this time with quads grown using IVF - Halifax Quads 2001

Geneticaly these people are the same as clones, also to meet your definition they have been created using IVF - or "human intent". So, do these people, and other twins out there ready to be IVF'd™ in the future have souls?



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 08:35 AM
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There is NO PROBLEM in it !

The body is body, once you leave the Mother you get a spirit, so - do you think, is that ANY difference to come into a body which has a roots inside the technology ?

Even in past a King and Queen were doing this, in a high tower during the Full Moon - was this any trouble ?

People want to believe in sth, but I do see no reason



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by Reevster
 


Another perspective.


Think of a body as nothing more than a machine or robot.

Machines or robots can be programmed in personality as individuals---machines programmed to learn and perform specific tasks. A few examples: Think of R2-D2 and CP30 on Star Wars...


You could call these robots artificial intelligent controlled or computer programs whichever you prefer and they can die with no soul when the owner of these machines decides. When the body expires they can be re-cloned or transferred or the plug is pulled.

The human body can act as a machine and robot the only difference is--- it is biological rather than electrical though our brains function similarly, the brain can also be programmed and act as a basic computer does, erased--cleaned like re-formating a hard-drive and re-programmed.

Now a human body/biological machine can completely be taken over-programmed and controlled if a spirit/soul does not occupy it thus a clone is the body of preference for those in the market shopping for the perfect worker---look alike---slave---Or whatever you choose...
Clones can be programmed to not feel pain or emotion unless the programmer chooses to allow this nerve functioning active, they can program them however they choose.

Thus human clones can potentially become ultimate warriors and/or slaves to those who wish to use our DNA in this particular way. ET's use biological machines this way, including animals and electrical bots and most who come in contact with ET's in most cases are in contact with a biological programmed machine in other words --Biological Clone--- This droid or clone can look like a grey or other species including human/hybrid or whatever it is they choose and so on depending.


So part of the debate I see is do clones have souls...?

Answer: Not in a million trillion years. NO

Clones can act like a duplicate of the original human or (Clonee) because they are programmed as great actors with smiles and laughs and cries all convincing, this is easily achieved. But they are not souls and they do not have the individuality a soul possesses or emotions they feel being un- connected to the oneness of the universe, not connected to spiritual energy fields and/or the cosmos.. Clones are controlled by their programmers completely just like a computer is to us---Some do have functions of learning from mistakes like a computer program becoming smarter. Artificial intelligence can learn and grow the only problem is it can also be shut down and then go away or die permanently. It can never outsmart the programmer or separate from it's original programming as some believe. Clones do not have intent only a program replacment of intent that is strictly controlled by the programmer. The Matrix is a great movie but machines could never take over in reality. (Unless controlled by higher soul entities of course who programmed them to do so.)


Most of us on earth have souls, we are intelligence--- energy--with spirituality and intent for eternal progression and soul growth--- most on earth are around the size of about a bottle cap in size from what I'm told depending on the soul level of the individual---The souls are small..
--Everyone differing one from another---Souls can never be destroyed because we have always existed unlike artifical intelligence which was created at some point in time and will also be terminated at some point in time and never possess a true spirit and connection with the oneness of the universe or other souls only artificial controlled program experiences.

Clones never ever will have a soul or intent unless it is programmed in them--- They may act sad, in pain, happy but think of R2-D2 or CP30 again smiling and crying that is all it is---

Are there clones running around on earth?

One of the best kept secrets...


Hold on let me ask my clone what he has to say---


"He says hello and greetings earthlings, though I am a clone please treat me like a human and respect me. I am here to serve you and this great nation, I may be your neighbor, I may be your boss, I may be your governor, I may be your president but one thing I hope never to be is your wife, husband or lover.
"

THE END!




[edit on 19-10-2008 by Malevolent_Aliens]



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by stringue
reply to post by Reevster
 


"A clone is grown using another humans intent "

OK, same situation this time with quads grown using IVF - Halifax Quads 2001

Geneticaly these people are the same as clones, also to meet your definition they have been created using IVF - or "human intent". So, do these people, and other twins out there ready to be IVF'd™ in the future have souls?



In vitro fertilisation (IVF) is a process by which egg cells are fertilised by sperm outside of the womb,
Same thing happens inside the womb, so the soul should attach itself normally.

Cloning in biotechnology refers to processes used to create copies of DNA fragments (molecular cloning), cells (cell cloning), or organisms.
This does not happen normally / and is not a natural process so the soul can not attach itself , no intent to reincarnate into the copy.

Human intent is not the same as soul/ sprit intent , not even close. Soul intent is when the soul is not in a human form ( after death ) and its intent is what it needs to do to reincarnate into a soild ( us ) again. The soul needs these experiences to learn from , to evolve the soul, the human form is but a vessel for this experience.
So your soul has done this many times and will keep doing this untill it has evolved to the next "soul level " what ever that might be. That is determinded by what experiences it has had and what it needs .






[edit on 19-10-2008 by Reevster]



posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by Reevster
 

Thankyou for your replys, ok so recap as I understand; IVF duplicants concieved outside the womb have souls, as long as the duplicated genetic information was not human-intent created.

Now if I was a soul I would be pretty confused at this stage. Please explain how a soul would deal with the offspring of;



Snuppy the Dog ?

The small dog is Snuppy the clone, Snuppy was cloned twice, then bred with two cloned females using IVF techniques, which resulted in the birth of 9 puppies. Do the new breed of Snuppy have souls?


[edit on 19-10-2008 by stringue]



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 02:57 AM
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There's probably not much point in arguing over this, since none of us are in a position to really know what we're talking about. All we can do is parrot what we've been told, or wildly guess at what we think makes sense.

So, since that's all any of you are doing, here's my own wild speculation with absolutely nothing to base it on:



this is why the human clones do not have an energy
field, because Spirit can't attach to it, and this is also because there
was no intent in it's creation


This seems silly to me. Clearly intent is involved in the process of creating a clone. Intent is involved in any deliberate creation. Sort of by definition. The source of the intent might not be a consciousness that also intends to occupy the clone...but why would this matter?

In principal, I would propose that soul should be able to confine itself to any physical form. You should be able to occupy a rock if you want. Doing so might severely limit your abliity to observe and interact with your environment, but I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible.



If an organism or a structure is created, cloned or copied,
Spirit cannot attach to it.


My body was created. I suspect that yours was too. Created in a womb rather than a lab, but created nonetheless. Why would one method, one source of intent, be so different in the ability of its result to carry spirit? I think the distinction between "natural" and "artificial" processes is basically delusional.



A clone is grown using another humans intent , the people or persons making the clone, not the soul using its own intent before reincarnating into this world via the unborn child.


So if this is the case...then what you're really saying is that it's not possible for consciousness to create a form capable of being inhabited by any consciousness other than itself. So...twins may each contain souls, because two souls involved themselves in the process of the creation of the body, presumably before birth. Possibly before conception. Ok. No problem. But...if that's the case, why would it be any different for a clone? Think of it this way: when a man and a woman conceive, neither of the two of them are the ones who will inhabit the resultant body. So, presumably their involvement in the process is purely on the phsyical level. It's the soul who will be born into the body who does most of the real work. Ok. So...why couldn't a laboratory technician provide the "purely phsyical" work in a lab, and allow a discarnate spirit to perform the real work behind the scenes?

Isn't the entire point of your concept that soul is necessary to prepare a body for inhabitation? So why would the trivial details like by whom and how the lower, physical preparations are handled matter in the least?



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 04:00 AM
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By the logic of your reasoning, if you were cloned just after you die, your spirit would be free to bind to the new body. It is unclear from what you said, whether your beliefs would suggest the spirit is drawn to the new clone body, or not.

So what do you think?

To my thinking, we are the physical manifestation of an archetype, a pattern. When again the universe manifests the pattern that is us. Why is the clone not as much the manifestaiton of the spirit, the pattern the prinicple which is uniquely what we are. You can be the embodyment of something unique, and not be unique yourself.

How do you deal with identical twins split from the same conception in your philosophy?



[edit on 22-10-2008 by Cyberbian]



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by Malevolent_Aliens
 


In your theory, which by the way I like, you say there can be humans without a soul/spirit matrix. Could it be that the naturally born "Twins" do have a soul, that is shared by them?

Also, If a "Clone" spiritless human, mates with another spiritless, do you think the outcome would be "Spiritless"? And also mating non spirited, with one spirited, would produce someone with only half a spirit?




[edit on 22-10-2008 by All Seeing Eye]






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