Should we get the flu vaccine?

Originally posted by Static Sky
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Good link. Thank you for that. But it is known that a flu vaccine contains the 3 most likely (according to scientists predictions), strains to spread across a region in any given year. It's also known that once the human body defeats a particular strain of flu virus, it is immune to that strain, at least for a time.

I suggest to you that that is the hype they tell you. It would seem that all truly independent research says that there is no evidence of this being so. Meanwhile, you are having a plethora of stuff that should NEVER be in your bloodstream injected:

Formaldehyde - though the body produces a form of formaldehyde, it is NOT the form used in vaccinations. The stuff in vaccines is the stuff they embalm the dead with. ANY amount - especially in the bloodstream - is bad news.

Mercury - though many vaccines SAY they are mercury-free, they are not. They still use Thimerosal (50% mercury) in the process and then "filter it out." The problem is that the mercury bonds with the proteins in the vaccine and CANNOT BE FILTERED OUT. "Mercury-free" vaccines have been independently tested, and they have mercury in them. (See www.whale.to... )

Antifreeze

Aluminium

Borax

MSG

Ammonium Sulfate

Animal organ tissue and blood

Latex

Genetically modified yeast

Foreign DNA

This is a partial list, and the ingredients and amounts vary from vaccine to vaccine (though formaldehyde and mercury are in most).

More information here: www.vaccination.inoz.com...

I have no doubt the flu vaccine works (though is not flawless-some do get sick just from it). I just wonder if it's really necessary for healthy adults.

What do you use upon which to base your surety? Something a pharmaceutical company says?

Consider: Big Pharma makes money selling vaccines. Big Pharma makes money selling drugs to "treat" the illnesses caused by the stuff that was injected - plus makes money on further drugs to treat the side effects of drugs, ad infinitum, until you're dead.

And like I said, independent research says vaccines cause spikes in the illnesses for which a public is vaccinated shortly after the vaccination program is begun.

And I understand that there are risks involved.

Risks that may show up immediately - or may show up years later. The fact is that ALL vaccines cause damage. The degree to which damage is done - from only a small amount to completely debilitating and deadly - depends on a number of factors, including initial health, genetics, the point in one's biorhythm that the vaccines are administered, and other factors.

Besides the aforementioned sickness that can be caused by it, there are of course the chemical and mercury concerns, as the thread you linked us to seemed to cover pretty thoroughly. Can I assume you won't be getting one then? Thanks again for your input.

I will not allow my body to be pierced with a needle for all the tea in China - or gold, either. So you assume correctly.

[edit on 10/16/2008 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by Static Sky
reply to post by annestacey

 

Very good advice, whether we're talking about vaccinations or just day to day life. I try not to eat too much junkfood and my job gets me plenty of excersize. But just to make a small point, I've read that many supliments can harm you, too. And I've read tons on the other side. It's hard to know what to believe anymore. Cheers for your good advice.

About supplements. First, there is a concerted effort on the part of Big Pharma to spread disinformation. They WANT you sick! They can't make money if you're not.

So many "studies" are done with questionable practices and conclusions, funded by them. You hear the dire "news," but you never hear about the independents that rip the studies apart. The idea that supplements are "bad for you" worms its way into the memescape thereby, but as a rule, untainted supplements are fine.

That being said, taking megadoses is likely not the greatest for you. Herbs (also under attach) are the best way to go because they not only have the supplement but also the beneficial phytochemicals that assist in absorbing and utilizing the active ingredients.

reply to post by Amaterasu


Herbs shoudl not be taken in megadoses though... important distinction there.

reply to post by Amaterasu


Asmeone2, thanks for the flag. Amaterasu, I find you a little over the top. I appreciate your points and I respect your opinion. Also, I know you're not just pulling things things out of mid-air but seriously, do you really believe they're putting anti-freeze in vaccines? Does that not sound a little silly to you?

And MSG? That's a food additive very closely related to salt. It makes food taste better. Strange but it works. It's harmless too, but for the very few amongst us who happen to be allergic to it. Allergies to MSG tend to be quite severe. As a chef for 3 years, I do know this.

And as for my opinions of it (the flu shot) actually working....this isn't based on marketing hype or the like. I base this on my understanding of how the immune system works, as well as how the flu virus family acts. I've come to these ideas after countless hours of reading whatever I can find, from every side presented, as I always do with everything I don't know 'enough' about.

I know for sure, that the human body does grow immune to most previously experienced viruses in the influenza family, for at least 6 months to 1 year. A few permanently, and very few, not at all.

I know there are hundreds of flu strains and new ones all the time. I know that modern vaccines are designed to give you a resistance to exactly 3 strains, that scientists have picked as the 3 most likely to proliferate in any given year. In North America, they base these 'guesses' on what was active in China and Australia last year. And they were wrong on 2 of 3 strains that hit NA last year. This is why I'm on the fence.

By the way Amaterasu, all those eyes in your banner, under your avatar, those are really cool. When I scroll up and down the page, they don't appear to move the same way. If I'm going down, they go down, but slowly and totaly smooth. Same for up. Everything else whizzes and chops by. Very cool effect. I like that. I've edited twice to point this out. (The first edit was for spelling). Peace.

[edit on 10/16/2008 by Static Sky]

[edit on 10/16/2008 by Static Sky]

[edit on 10/16/2008 by Static Sky]

Asmeone2 and Amaterasu, It's nice to know who I'll see when I read a thread.

StaticSky, excellent question. I can tell you've done a lot of research on your own, too, which is even better.

I've never had the flu shot. I'm a healthy adult woman, and though I'm in college now, I don't live there or anything. If I get the flu, I'll take a week off, drink lots of juice and tea, and survive.

I do believe vaccination works, insofar as I believe that people who get the flu after having the flu shot have overall a less severe illness than those who don't get the flu shot.

I don't think that thimerosal can be linked to autism in the absence of preexistent mitochondrial disorders. Not that that's an issue in your case at all, since you're an adult and I don't think anyone claims vaccines cause autism in adults.

The CDC has some information on the link between the flu vaccine and Guillain-Barre syndrome; I don't have the specific link but could find it; u2u me if you want.

Assuming that you are a healthy adult, and don't live or work with anyone at increased risk of complications from influenza, I just am not convinced the flu shot is worth it. I'd rather take the risk of a week off work than get a vaccine that protects against a relatively mild disease that mutates at such a rapid pace.

So, my feeling is, don't bother with the shot, but whichever way you choose is no big deal.

reply to post by americandingbat


Back atcha Dingy

My objection to the shots isn't so much the effects on the individual, though they can certainly be severe. I beleive that vaccines prevent entire groups from maintaining a healthy immune system level.

Which is not to say that select demographics with a legitimate reason for taking the vaccine shouldn't. I just adamantly object to these calls to vaccinate people by the millions. Conspiracies aside it's just bad medical sense.

I got my flu shot, made me sleepy (and still quite sleepy)
I actually get a runny noise, congestion and all that easier AFTER I've gotten the shot. Last year I didn't get it and didn't really get the full effects of the flu as I do when I get the shot (Dunno how that works out but eh.) My own standpoint and opinion about them is I personally would not get one again.

reply to post by asmeone2


Although I'm not ready to commit myself on that issue, I tend to think you're right. At least about diseases like influenza, which have very low complication rates among a healthy populace. I also dislike all the various antibacterial soaps, towels, Kleenex, cleaning products, etc. that industry has been pushing over the last decade. Sometimes bacteria are our buddies.

But I do think the flu shot is worthwhile for any demographic that runs a high risk of complication. And though I wouldn't take the pharmaceutics company's word for its efficacy, I've read enough studies to be convinced that it works, in its limited way.

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Herbs shoudl not be taken in megadoses though... important distinction there.

Quite true - but then I think I said megadoses of supplements were probably not the optimal choice either.

Originally posted by americandingbat
reply to post by asmeone2

 

Although I'm not ready to commit myself on that issue, I tend to think you're right. At least about diseases like influenza, which have very low complication rates among a healthy populace. I also dislike all the various antibacterial soaps, towels, Kleenex, cleaning products, etc. that industry has been pushing over the last decade. Sometimes bacteria are our buddies.

For all our advances in medicine, there is a thing as too clean.

I really wish I had a way to study this scientifically, but I think in the long run vaccines have made us a less healthy society.

Amaterasu and I were argueing in another thread that it wasn't vaccines by better hygine and medical prodedures that killed the terrible diseases, not vaccines. That should really be its own thread.

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Herbs shoudl not be taken in megadoses though... important distinction there.

Quite true - but then I think I said megadoses of supplements were probably not the optimal choice either.

I know, but I mis-read it at first thinking that you meant herbs should be taken in high doses... didn't edit because I thought others might have too.

Originally posted by Static Sky
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Amaterasu, I find you a little over the top. I appreciate your points and I respect your opinion. Also, I know you're not just pulling things things out of mid-air but seriously, do you really believe they're putting anti-freeze in vaccines? Does that not sound a little silly to you?

Here is a link to a PDF brought to you by the CDC:

www.cdc.gov...

You will note that polyethylene glycol is listed. Do you know what that is? It's an antifreeze.

In fact, take a good look at all those ingredients and then tell me just how silly I am.

And MSG? That's a food additive very closely related to salt. It makes food taste better. Strange but it works. It's harmless too, but for the very few amongst us who happen to be allergic to it. Allergies to MSG tend to be quite severe. As a chef for 3 years, I do know this.

MSG is on that list too, but if you think it is "harmless..."

From a suspect source:

www.mayoclinic.com...

A few other sources:

www.becomehealthynow.com...

www.holisticmed.com...

healthlink.mcw.edu...

www.truthinlabeling.org...

There's a lot more. Believe whom you will. [EDIT to add: And do you really want it in your bloodstream!?! I surely don't want it in MINE!.]

And as for my opinions of it (the flu shot) actually working....this isn't based on marketing hype or the like. I base this on my understanding of how the immune system works, as well as how the flu virus family acts. I've come to these ideas after countless hours of reading whatever I can find, from every side presented, as I always do with everything I don't know 'enough' about.

Have you read these sources?

www.vran.org...

friendsoffreedom.org...

www.helium.com...

www.wanttoknow.info...

www.chirowatch.com...

Again, there are many more. Who to believe, who to believe? I say NOT the government, as a rule (though that PDF is probably right). NOT a major clinic that relies on patronage for study money.

I know for sure, that the human body does grow immune to most previously experienced viruses in the influenza family, for at least 6 months to 1 year. A few permanently, and very few, not at all.

Yes, but that is in response to the actual, live virus. NOT to something concocted to make the body produce "antibodies." (If antibodies were the fighters they claim, why does having HIV antibodies mean you are likely to get the human immunovirus disease (AIDS)...?)

I know there are hundreds of flu strains and new ones all the time. I know that modern vaccines are designed to give you a resistance to exactly 3 strains, that scientists have picked as the 3 most likely to proliferate in any given year. In North America, they base these 'guesses' on what was active in China and Australia last year. And they were wrong on 2 of 3 strains that hit NA last year. This is why I'm on the fence.

What they do is cause you to produce an identifiable substance that tells of contact with something resembling the live virus - that is all. It does NOT mean you are "protected."

By the way Amaterasu, all those eyes in your banner, under your avatar, those are really cool. When I scroll up and down the page, they don't appear to move the same way. If I'm going down, they go down, but slowly and totaly smooth. Same for up. Everything else whizzes and chops by. Very cool effect. I like that. I've edited twice to point this out. (The first edit was for spelling). Peace.

Thank you. [smile]

[edit on 10/16/2008 by Amaterasu]

I say DO NOT get the vaccine. The only time in my life I caught the flu was right after I gave in and said ok to the free flu shot. It was so severe I couldn't move out of bed for two weeks and nearly died. That was about 10 years ago and I will never take another. It is a scam and could possibly make those who get it very sick.

Originally posted by TH3ON3
I say DO NOT get the vaccine. The only time in my life I caught the flu was right after I gave in and said ok to the free flu shot. It was so severe I couldn't move out of bed for two weeks and nearly died. That was about 10 years ago and I will never take another. It is a scam and could possibly make those who get it very sick.

Aww... see, i have heard so many cases like that th3on3... so many that there should be more cautions... instead we here vaccinate every son of a gun...

I am a former daycare worker, and of course, one year I went ahead, and got it. It was offered for free, and I got the flu that year! Never again.

Originally posted by asmeone2

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Herbs shoudl not be taken in megadoses though... important distinction there.

Quite true - but then I think I said megadoses of supplements were probably not the optimal choice either.

I know, but I mis-read it at first thinking that you meant herbs should be taken in high doses... didn't edit because I thought others might have too.

That may be. I guess I was tired when I wrote that.

Thanks for letting me know I erred. [smile]

EDIT: Or I'm tired now and misread what you wrote! LOL!

[edit on 10/17/2008 by Amaterasu]

That may be. I guess I was tired when I wrote that.

Thanks for letting me know I erred. [smile]

EDIT: Or I'm tired now and misread what you wrote! LOL!

[edit on 10/17/2008 by Amaterasu]

(nevermind)

[edit on 17-10-2008 by asmeone2]

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I am a former daycare worker, and of course, one year I went ahead, and got it. It was offered for free, and I got the flu that year! Never again.

Part of the problem... maybe even all the problem... is they use the previous year's strains, so the shot is often not caught up to the newest mutations. THus you are not protected.

wife and i had a free shot from her work quite a few years ago, both got the flu symptoms and felt pretty crappy for about a week.

my current employer offered them 6mth ago, only 2 or 3 people accepted and they got the flu, some took time off work because of it.

its probably NOT related, but within a week of those getting sick from the shot the rest of us started to get the same flu symptoms. it spread through work like a bush fire, nobody got away from this winter without getting it.

like i say, its probably not related but we blame those who had the flu shots for giving it to us anyway since they were the first to get sick.

[edit on 17/10/08 by Obliv_au]

Wouldn't that be a great method of introducing a deadly virus on a massive scale to control population. . . vaccinating as many people as possible with a substance which would make the susceptible to illness? It wouldn't have to be the majority of vaccines, just a few here or there.

And who's to say that actually contracting and suffering through the flu every few years isn't building your immune system . . . by getting the vaccine, you may be short circuiting your immunity? I can't believe people actually trust the government with their lives.

It seems to me that on the lighter side, this is just some sort of money-maker for big pharma and on the darker side, it's needless government involvement into areas where they shouldn't be.

Too many people don't really consider how this could be used for nefarious purposes. It's like the people who donate blood (and giving their social security number when they do so) believing they are saving lives. What a farce! Most people don't realize that blood banks are for profit organizations and most blood is sold to hospitals at an enormous profit. These companies have no problem appealing to your emotions, your sense of duty and patriotism. You've just volunteered your DNA, and have allowed all that health information to be tied to your SSN.

My guess is that the government is building a DNA database with the information, just as they are with fingerprints (now required for real estate brokers and lenders). Lord only knows what they are doing with the vaccinations, but if I had to bet, it wouldn't be taking care of the populace, that's for sure.

If you don't think it's possible, just remember all the drugs and procedures that were promised to be safe, like Thalidomide, fluoroscopes, the blood supply in the 1980's. . . it's foolish to trust anyone with a track record like the federal government.

Unless I was at risk for dying from the flu, I wouldn't have the vaccine.