Do you consider ATS a valid source of info?

Do you consider ATS a valid source of info?

Admittedly I haven't been a part of this site as long as most of you but I've been a long time reader and what I've found is that to a very high degree, most of what appears on ATS is met with the proper skepticism and then bombarded with seemingly unlimited conspiracy theories and often flaming.

For example, Someone will say:

Topic: Strange hatch hidden in a field
I found a concrete hatch with metal doors welded shut under a piece of plywood in a field in Xquitz, MD which had a military insignia on it and the letters K21. Does anyone know what this might be? (No pictures)

The replies will typically consist of:

-People claiming its part of an underground facility of which they worked.
-People guessing with things like bomb shelter or missile silo.
-People demanding the person answer their own question with pictures and investigation.
-People outright calling him a liar and he never saw a hatch at all.
-People who claim to have seen the same hatch but also don't know what it is.
And my favorite
-People who claim their friend/father/grandfather worked there but died without talking about it.


Statistically with the number of people on this forum, a given area is really only accessible to about 10-20 people on the boards to go physically investigate so there's thousands of us reading who are curious but are left wanting and never given straight answers.

We create our own disinformation here!

The problem
ATS has so many people with such wildly varying experiences and imaginations that I really feel, unless someone is able to backup what they say with a full on, time coded, high definition video I find myself constantly taking the pessimistic and logical stance rather than believing the person.

The reason it's nearly impossible to identify truth versus disinformation here just because the forums contain equally as many conspirators as any other group here. Who is to say if there's even actual government agents here whose purpose is to spread false information. Some topics are investigated in person by my favorite ATS member, the urban explorer, but I've noticed even these people often do not take cameras with them, or discourage others from posting locations of their journeys.

Using my example, lets say the truth was:
Beyond those doors is a ladder going 12 feet down into a 10x10 concrete vault which housed a small seismic machine and a little well for groundwater testing because this area was a former weapons testing range.

With ATS, its equally as likely that its an unmarked entrance to a 4000 mile long network of tunnels under the USA or an escape hatch to a 20,000 sq ft underground complex where aliens were studied. It could also be a forgotten hatch to a nuclear missile site or even a very remote and forgotten exit to a cold war underground nuclear reactor. It could be just like another hatch I found that used to be part of a prison, prisoners were taken there to be tortured. No wait, its actually nothing more than the actual door removed from a real secret base in Plixtylnt, NC that must have feel off the truck on the way to be scrapped.

Do you see why I both hate and love ATS? The truth COULD be right in front of us, but how would you know? I wouldn't.



The solution
Where I'm going with this is simple, this place has a fantastic community of people but some of us intentionally or otherwise, do more harm than good to the cause.

Its a GREAT thing we have lots of speculators and guessers that help us piece together the puzzles, but we must actively weed out the blatant liars and properly identify people who intentionally spread disinformation and fantasy.



Am I way off base here?

Please let me know what you think and thanks for reading.

Wish I could make a ONE word responce.

UM



There are valid post, yes.

That's why it is the responsibility of the posters and responders to provide proof or references to their outrageous claims. If your proof is credible and hard to dispute then there is little we can do but discuss what an amazing find you have. If you were to come on here and tell me you found a secret hatch with military insignia on it I most certainly would ask for a picture and maybe even for you to open it. Why would I not want to see it? Why would I being reasonable and logical ever accept the unverified testimony of someone I have never met? Also as easy as it is to take a picture of something these days, why not? It's not like you have to take the picture, drive to get it developed, wait a few hours, drive it to kinko's to scan it to a disk, and then finally upload your photo... The fact is that by not providing proof you are contributing to the disinfo.

I love this post, and Starred accordingly.

Yes, I think much on this site is a overblown, but there are a lot of decent posts/posters on here. Its up to the reader to sort them out for themselves.

I always try and remember two general rules of thumb:

1) The simplest explanation is usually the right one.

2) As Sherlock Holmes said, "If you remove the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, MUST be the truth"

There are answers out there somewhere. You can't rely on the Government or the MSM to give it to you.

The government has been so successful as pulling the wool over our eyes by following a simple guideline for misinformation: "A good lie contains an ounce of truth".

If I may be so bold, I suspect that much of what you are referring to is typical of all forums on the net.

We have no mechanism for vetting contributors, and in a perfect world none would be needed. But this is not a perfect world, and this site often reflects that fact rather appropriately.

The context of what you are interested in has great bearing on what you observe.

In some very salient cases, ATS is even MORE fair and balance and devoted to accuracy than the main stream media. In many however, it is a collection of people inclined to speculate beyond their first-hand knowledge. This has to do with the public's apparent self-estimation of being 'information' poor on topics that are denied to them by the government, corporations, the church, or whatever.

There is always going to be disinformation here. But it is neither more malign nor less disingenuous than anywhere else.

Also, you might find that those who introduce bias into their discussion often do so at their own peril. This is not a place to be meek.

I find it a noble pursuit, to seek truthful revelation. But it is a path, not a destination, thus truth must be realized, not given. On the other hand, facts are what they are, and here, few capable people are inclined to let anyone disregard or misrepresent facts. It's all in the perspective.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by Maxmars]

"Plixtylnt, NC," haha.

We get to emotional. i would call maybe 1 out of every one hundred threads fact, and thats after 120+ posts of rigorous scientific debate on that topic. most of "that" explains weather anomalies and such.

I wouldnt spread anything i read here as fact per se, but it is defiantly "food for thought"

HOWEVER:

what good can anyone do if we are always "plugged in" to the internet/TV/electronic entertainment?

I agree with those who have said you have to consider individual posters, and threads and not ATS as a whole.

There are clearly people on ATS who sensationalize and sometimes just outright fabricate things.

There are others who post thoughtfully and with good support.

I think ATS should be considered a place where a "process," that of "denying ignorance," occurs, rather than a place inherently devoid of ignorance.

You will find a lot of lies, deception, foolishness, and disinformation here. What makes ATS great is that you also find a lot of people dedicated to cutting through this mess to get as close as humans can to the "truth."

I find this site an amazing source of entertainment.

I see so many "new" conspiracies that are usually nothing more than old conspiracies with a new twist or turn. Young gullible people will always be around for people to take financial advantage of by sell books, DVD's, or crap in general about these conspiracies. It is a shame...

reply to post by serial

-People claiming its part of an underground facility of which they worked.
-People guessing with things like bomb shelter or missile silo.
-People demanding the person answer their own question with pictures and investigation.
-People outright calling him a liar and he never saw a hatch at all.
-People who claim to have seen the same hatch but also don't know what it is.
And my favorite
-People who claim their friend/father/grandfather worked there but died without talking about it.

I find these insulting and not at all what I find to be the *typical* answer (besides maybe the second one).
I think you have the wrong forum.
Especially if your *favorite* answer is as you stated above.

Thanks for the post.
Reminds me how much I like it here.

...taps...

..this maybe slightly off topic, but..

..i have to say my favorite posters are the ones who will bag the mainstream media, in one post, but wont hesitate in quoting the mainstream media in thier threads as a reference or link to prove their point (of view) or make a claim, i have noticed there are many guilty of this..

e.g.

example ATS member POST '..thats what the mainstream media want you to believe or aren't telling you.. or something to that effect...

next day or not long after

example ATS member THREAD 'according to bbc.co.uk', -insert article here-

reply to post by silo13


That was my first thought exactly.

My favorite group of "people" on ATS are the one's who clearly "believe" in no conspriacies at all yet troll the forums all day to instantly derail people and spread negativity regardless the subject.

In regards to the question in the title, ATS is one of the most valid sources of info on the net. It is not up to the original poster to provide proof of anything. There is no such thing as "burden for proof". It is up to the reader to determine the truth for themself. After all, you're the only one in control of your thoughts. Disinformation is rampant so it's the only option.

In an existence that is itself infinite, so are all possibilities within it. Therefore everything must be considered to determine truth. There are very few places such as ATS to perceive as many possibilities as possible.

Originally posted by Universal Light

There is no such thing as "burden for proof". It is up to the reader to determine the truth for themself. After all, you're the only one in control of your thoughts. Disinformation is rampant so it's the only option.

I disagree with this statement, respectfully. If you are making a farfetched claim, the burden of proof is on your shoulders to defend your claim. If I post something to the extent of "I Found Bigfoot" and do not provide proof, how is it that the responder is going to have the necessary information to determine the truth? Therefore I will simply reply with "Prove that you found him". When said information is brought forth then I can collectively make a decision as to what is truth and what is fiction.

Thanks for a respectful counter. People don't understand it's okay to disagree.

My thought is this: if someone makes a far-fetched claim and supplies no proof, isn't that enough right there for the reader to determine the truth? I don't believe everything should be laid out on a platter for people. Personal discovery holds much more growth.

I agree with everything you just said. I ask for proof because I believe you need to lay out things for people. Otherwise you end up in a situation where someone can make a very uninformed decision based around a mere claim. Take this past 10-14-08 prediction. No Proof, Blind faith, and alot of very disappointed people.

I probably lurked this site for about 4 yrs before I joined,you can look at who is posting,some are very thourough on there posts and research before they post with supporting facts,seems the last few years some put whatever they want on here,so I usually consider the source,summer time is especially bad,but some very knowledgable people on here,they won't tell you what you want to hear they will tell you the truth

reply to post by Oldtimer2


I noticed that too (this was my first summer on board). This summer the participation was..., well, how do you put this kindly..., flooded by a lot of 'hit and run' posters, and a couple of genuinely troubled souls...

Very interesting point. I can see why you would say that.

Sadly, I think in some cases, spelling things out still has no impact. One has to be searching to see in the first place.

Your undeniably right though, 10/14 brought about many disappointed people. Nonetheless, it still remains there own doing.

Originally posted by silo13
I find these insulting and not at all what I find to be the *typical* answer (besides maybe the second one).
I think you have the wrong forum.
Especially if your *favorite* answer is as you stated above.

Thanks for the post.
Reminds me how much I like it here.

...taps...

Sorry I didn't mean to be insulting as I was not targeting anyone specifically.

The reason those are my favorite kinds of posters is because of the back story that it implies. Think about it for a minute, it implies that person had knowledge of their family member working on a secret project and never as long as the family member lived, obtained any details about it. I'm not saying said people are lieing, I just feel that as you approach the end years of your life, you have fulfilled your part of the contract and not sharing with your family the reason they missed you all those years is truly amazing. Its so amazing, that it throws up a bright red flag.

As my post is extensively about the spread of disinformation directly or otherwise I thought this is the right forum to discuss it.

No not really lots of "disinfo" here, tons of it.

I consider it a valid source of info. Why? Because there are differing points of view on any given topic. I read, consider the posts and make up my mind on the validity of said info. That said, we're damn quick at getting info around. People will be talking about something and it was discussed on ATS 1 maybe 2 days before. Kudos to the membership.