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It's Official: Zeitgeist, Peter Joeseph, is out in left field.....

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posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by BlackOps719
 


"Well that is all well and good and sounds really great on paper.....too bad it is a socialist pipe dream that defies every human instinct and ignores every element of true human nature.

Sounds like an unrealistic pseudo hippie fantasy to me."

One thing to here is say at you should sometimes take part of cooperate works with someone, like in group cooperate works. You would know how things work.

"You are forgetting one key componant as well.....someone would HAVE to be in charge. Someone would be responsible for creating policy within the group."

No need to be anyone in charge, if you know how teamwork works, cooperate works, you would know at there's no need to leader. Why we should not try learn at last ourselves working together with other ones, that is real cooperate and if leader interrupts, it comes this kind - Yes my master, yes my master, yes my master. And all this elite thing begin from the start AGAIN. Understand?

"Every tribe of injuns has to have a chief, otherwise it will not function. I didnt write the rules, I just know the outcome before it even begins. What you are describing is a socialistic type of anarchy and from what Joseph and Zeitgesit describe, it doesnt sound like there will be much room for free or cognitive thought."

Idea what they trying bring in at we....You know, we work together for it, we design it, build it and so on.

"What would happen is what always happens, the weak will end up exploited by the strong. Man kind is not meant to be neutral and passive. Man kind is designed to achieve, to excell and to dominate. These are human instincts and no amount of new age sci-fi indoctrination will change that."

That's what system eats for you. DESIGNED TO BE. SHOULD BE.

We are just we, nothing more. We have Passive, neutral, negative, mind where those things come different ways us in our mind. Like if someone likes from red car, but because someone hate red car so he/she is negative toward red car but he/she likes from black car, when first person thinks negative from the black and thinks red car be better. Then comes one person more and he/she says, both cars are ok, so he/she could be called neutral. "Mind what it has eaten makes we what we are", because we are not designed to be that kind like you say. Mind same time in this prosess thinks those things what it has eaten, so thoughts make usually decicion what eaten information you really then splash out. Like i did splash this information out, next you splash something other because you thinking now these things in your own mind what it has eaten from ATS and this thread and now you must make decicion what you see in information. And those thoughts going now somewhere in "Passive or neutral or negative category in your mind". YES - Passive, Ok - Neutral, NO - Negative.

But same times we say yes, no, ok, we can see yes "Negative", No "Passive", ok "Neutral". So, we are not designed to be anything, we make decicions and that make in the end who we are.




posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:21 AM
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Thank you Dr. Love for the update from Alex. We have to deny ignorance, and try as they may, and quite hard mind you, they have been proven to be what we know they are.
1. They can not answer the questions posted to them
2. They answer a question with a question
3. They have no real answer.
4. The will not even know you are there if you have a different set of values then they.

How many of you have looked up what Mr. Joseph calls himeself ( proletariat ) . Look it up.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by TruthTellist
Look at North Korea - there is the model for the society that your Peter Joseph wants to establish...


Does North Korea have a monetary based system?

Like Alex, you don't seem to get anything Peter Joseph is saying....



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by ConspiracyNut23
 


"Like Alex, you don't seem to get anything Peter Joseph is saying...."

Like Peter Joseph, you assume those who disagree with your socialist fantasy are intellectually deficient....

[edit on 17-10-2008 by TruthTellist]



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:42 AM
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I'm not saying you are intellectually deficient...

The whole idea of Peter Joseph's philosophy is that the system cannot be based on money. Communist is based on money, fascism is based on money, capitalism is based on money...

Lenin's system was based on money. Marx's system was based on money. North Korea's system is based on money.

Peter Joseph's proposal is not based on money. Are you getting the no money thing?

I think this is your cue to start screaming about EEEVVIIIILL.


off to watch Dr. Love's clips... (I don't expect AJ will ever understand the $29.95 thing... I do hope he doesn't bring it up again)



[edit on 17/10/08 by ConspiracyNut23]



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by ConspiracyNut23
 


"Like Alex, you don't seem to get anything Peter Joseph is saying...."

Like Peter Joseph, you assume those who disagree with your socialist fantasy as being intellectually deficient....


Ok ok... Where the heck utopia comes people mind of these things "is"?

It comes people mind because they haven't yet been in that kind society where we have free will and we work together in things and we have no leaders leading us because we work together, cooperate/teamwork. We just now, and its our GOAL, to go there, take step to new society, "because" if we continue same way, have it really any sense? No, this system is not ok.

But if you really want keep this ababababaa system online, then ask you, why you want someone mess things in your mind, mess things your life, mess things everything and believe at they are ok because they are messing things up. Exploding 9/11 Wtc, shooting innocent people and say them terrorists. Same time poor people dies to hunger. And people say this. Its ok to continue this way. Have this really any sense? No, because we can say this now ongoing system is "CORRUPTED". You can google every these children and adults faces who have died because of "THIS" system. Can you face their face and say its still ok?



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
I'm not saying you are intellectually deficient...

The whole idea of Peter Joseph's philosophy is that the system cannot be based on money. Communist is based on money, fascism is based on money, capitalism is based on money...

Lenin's system was based on money. Marx's system was based on money. North Korea's system is based on money.

Peter Joseph's proposal is not based on money. Are you getting the no money thing?

I think this is your cue to start screaming about EEEVVIIIILL.


off to watch Dr. Love's clips... (I don't expect AJ will ever understand the $29.95 thing... I do hope he doesn't bring it up again)



[edit on 17/10/08 by ConspiracyNut23]




Ok ...so there is no money as you say.

According to Joseph and Addendum...all resources will be harvested and gathered and placed for the taking. Basically food, supplies, etc etc will all be made readily available for all to take from at will...yes?


So let me ask you. What happens when one person fails to perform his share of the work load? Or better yet...what happens when one member of this "utopian" society takes more from the collective pool? What happens when one takes more than another member deems is fair to the collective group?

Just curious what your take is on that. Thanks.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Peter Joseph's proposal is not based on money. Are you getting the no money thing?


So I can get a Free Porsche and Live in a Mansion and eat only the best cuts of meat every night ?

Can I get 40 year old whiskey for free whenever I want?

Maybe even A six pack of beer each day for free?

Please answer using Peter Joseph's system of logic.... what will become of me?


Edit; I also smoke cigarettes. Will I be denied medical treatment?? Will cigarettes be illegal? Alcohol? (too bourgeois perhaps)

[edit on 17-10-2008 by TruthTellist]



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by BlackOps719
 


The answer is, they will be re-educated.


I was going to ask a similar question, what happens to those who are lazy and don't pull their weight?

BTW, I'd like to see this re-education contraption before I sign off on this bad-boy.


Peace



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by TruthTellist
Edit; I also smoke cigarettes. Will I be denied medical treatment?? Will cigarettes be illegal? Alcohol? (too bourgeois perhaps)


Cigarettes will be unnecessary under the new collective god force. The only reason you smoke is because of your religion, Project Venus will free you of that addiction through re-education.

Peace



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by TruthTellist
 


Can you in North Korea? No.

I was simply pointing out that your examples were irrelevant. (can you at least agree on that much?)

Peter points out that we are entering new grounds. This has never been tried before. He mentions the motivation factor a little by saying that money is not the only motivation for doing something. He mentions children routinely doing things without expecting monetary compensation.

We are currently stuck in this scarcity-based mindset. It is difficult to imagine what could be.

BlackOps, you bring up a good point and this is definitively something the movement will have to address. - Individual laziness.

This must've come up when people lived in a kibbutz, I would think. Maybe there's some answers there.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by ConspiracyNut23
 


"I was simply pointing out that your examples were irrelevant"

Adults Drink Alcohol. The matter is not irrelevant. Are you saying alcohol will be banned?

Please don't dance around my questions.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by TruthTellist
 


OMG! Comparing Joseph's system to Lenin's, Marx's or North Korea's system is irrelevant. - because they are based on MONEY. (sorry for being unclear)


[edit on 17/10/08 by ConspiracyNut23]



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by ConspiracyNut23
 


I don't get it.

Explain it to me.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:34 PM
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Trade my beer for a better society? Sign me up!

I see where project Venus has flaws, and how it would be *EXTREMELY* hard to come about, but if it were just an option.. I would chose it haha. I'm listening to the interview now.. it seems like it started out with Alex and Peter saying that they want to discuss and not attack each others ideas so.. I guess I'll have more to say afterwords.

Peace!



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:39 PM
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For me, Alex Jones has a big ego and a big mouth to go with it. He is a master spin artist to make profits for himself. I would not want him at any protest that I would be in- because he is such a buffoon- he would immediately discredit the protest. He reminds me of the Weathermen faction that spoiled the sds 60's movement. But, yes he has turned many onto researching the truth and seeing thru the illusion, but he is a parasite living off the truth movement.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:44 PM
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Ok. Now you are simply pulling my chain...


Like I said in my previous post, you don't understand what Peter Joseph is saying. I suggest you simply watch Zeitgeist 2 again and his "discussion" with Alex Jones. As what you are asking is at the base of the entire proposed system.

There's even nice graphics in the movie to help you understand how a non-monetary based system is different from all other previous systems.

Perhaps you prefer the current capitalist system where the invisible hand gives out huge bail-outs to private corporations?



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 01:00 PM
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Can someone advise me. In this ZA 'utopia', who does the unpleasant jobs that technology will never replace?

Right now, they are done by humans, who do these jobs because they get some reward (eg money).

Take the money away, or the need for it, who does these jobs while the rest fart around unleashing their 'creativity' painting or playing golf all day?

Get real, not all jobs will be done by technology, they will always need caring, empathic humans. Think of old-age care homes full of people who cannot eat, wash or toilet themselves, or the 24/7 care of the severely disabled, just TWO examples Robbie The Robot don't cut it at.

Maybe 'utopia' will just do away with the old or sick? A Brave New World.




[edit on 17-10-2008 by LynUK]



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by LynUK
Can someone advise me. In this ZA 'utopia', who does the unpleasant jobs that technology will never replace?

Right now, they are done by humans, who do these jobs because they get some reward (eg money).

Take the money away, or the need for it, who does these jobs while the rest fart around unleashing their 'creativity' painting or playing golf all day?

Get real, not all jobs will be done by technology, they will always need caring, empathic humans. Think of old-age care homes full of people who cannot eat, wash or toilet themselves, or the 24/7 care of the severely disabled, just TWO examples Robbie The Robot don't cut it at.

Maybe 'utopia' will just do away with the old or sick? A Brave New World.




[edit on 17-10-2008 by LynUK]


No golf.. That is a money sport. And since there is no money, there is no crap to clean up either. Hence no money no food. I quess we will have our own robot and it will take care of the mess. I can not believe they, meaning supporters of this scam, have not answered any of my questions. They can not. Re-education in a class room setting can not be achived due to my stubborn nature, so I will have to be introduced to shock treatments to remove all my past feelings of having that cigarette,playing golf, or even thinking about a MItF. Its a scam , and it is not going to happen. Sorry, but its true, I am a man, I have feelings, does Mr. Joseph then want to make me a unican. Oh he goes against the system, so now he cleans the toltiet, takes out the garbage, and wipes his butt. No thanks, I rebel, as it is the nature of man to do so.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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Forgive me, I did not read through the entire thread, I just felt I would voice my opinion. I am almost sure someone else has already posted this obvious observation, but just in case, I will as well in my words attempt to emphasize its possible validity.

I dont believe in evil, because I do not believe in good, because I know of true and false.

Good and evil are obviously perspectives entertained by human emotional opinions.

I think whats more important, is if someone understands or believes in unconditional compassion.

Ultimately, I think if you sift through all the possible perceptions on either side of any argument on any subject, and think out the bigger picture of our shared sense of "reality" to its depths and then some, unconditional compassion is a byproduct of realizing who/what we all really are a part of.

After that, good and evil, are seen both as a greater "good",(not really good, its more intricate yet so much more simple than what we think of when we think good vs evil; subtly complex). They are both teachers of the emotional contrast of the physical "hallucinatory" experience.

I suggest to say a greater good figuratively, because if we didnt have the dual spectrum of emotion, we would still have existence, and existence is so to speak "good"or at least existence is perceived, therefor it can be seen as true, at least in the sense and perspective of its various holographic belief systems.

Really, the greater realization just is, its not good, its not bad, its not describable, its a singular experience/understanding that transcends human differences, its a "place" we all came from, its a "place" we will all return, its a place we can choose to subjectively experience from within this parameter of "human" but only if we can get past the illusory suggestive firewall of whatever programed network we have willed to be our operating system or little world view of this "game/school/prison/prism/computer/enigma".



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