Demonisation of reason and logic in America.

I don't need to quote various sources available on the internet in order to build a general consensus that, in America, reason and logic are seen as hallmarks of a liberal elite. These qualities, and they are qualities, are portrayed by Conservatives and the closely linked Religious Right as anathema to patriotism and 'being a true American'. We just have to look at the current force to increase faith based policies and the attempts to encroach on the teaching of science in American public schools.

What if, and this is purely speculative, there is an active push to deny freedom though adherence to faith. If you're an evangelical Christian, you're not likely to disagree with Bush or the Republican party. You disagree, you're immediately ostracised and accused of being a liberal or even worse.. and Atheist!. You believe in Fundamentalist Christianity though, and you're pretty much guaranteed to do whatever they say and believe them to boot, as they appear to agree with you.

If however, you are exposed to the principles of science at an early age, of rationality and theory as probable due to empirical evidence then you are more likely to question. Pretty soon people begin to question the basis for the government's actions, and what do you know the next thing is dissent!.

What i am attempting to say is that the government is advocating faith as a means to control the masses.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


Your thoughts please.

Religion is the breeding ground for tyranny.



Seperation of church and state is not debatable, it was written into the Constitution for a reason.

It may not be debatable, yet that doesn't stop it from being violated without consent. What about Bush's aid programs in relation to HIV, only given to abstinence programs?

Please be mindful of how you use the word "Conservative". Nothing in your post reminds me of anything conservative. The NEW Republican party is the Far Right group you speak of. I call them the NEW Republican party because they do nothing to represent the Conservative principles of the Old Republican party. GOP and Conservative are names reserved for the true republicans and I would suggest we start calling them the GNP and The NEW Republican party. On topic, I consider myself a reasonable and logical human being and I happen not to be liberal. I am also a non-religious true conservative. Being a true american entails always questioning your leaders and holding them accountable. Things of which we no longer do in this country. The constitution does provide for seperation of church and state. But alas the constitution is interpreted by the Supreme court and only the Supreme court and can change however they see fit.

Separation of Church and State is not in the US constitution. Which constitution are you reading?

True, but American conservatism is, in my opinion at least, stronger than European conservatism. I.e Obama by Uk standards is a moderate conservative, Republican party is pretty darn right wing.

Anyway, i was not doubting the fact that there are logical, rational conservatives per se, just the aims of a select few ultra-right wingers.

Your reasoning is flawed and prejudiced.

What about any critical questions about Obama being branded as having racist intent?

You are falling into their trap - you are prejudiced against Christians and thus divided for no good reason other than ideology - all the better to be controlled.

reply to post by Marid Audran


I am sorry but this is not about Obama or McCain but about Conservatives (or New Republicans if you like) supporting values that have a disdain for facts and reason. Let's not make this a Obama/mcCain thread. Please.

I disagree. First off this thread is not about the U.S election. Into who's trap am i falling exactly? If one sticks with vehemence to one belief system, then surely you're more likely to obey those who are higher in the hierarchy of that belief system, who appear to further the aims of and spread that belief. Criticising a belief structure doesn't make me prejudiced against it.

[edit on 15/10/08 by Venit]

Well, to be clear, you brought up "Republicans" "Conservative Christians" and liberals in a topic about government manipulation during an election season. I fail to see how it could be interpreted as anything other than about the US election, especially since you didn't cite any facts that could be researched and rebutted beyond what is, at best, apocryphal.

Your choice of words clearly display your prejudice - now don't take that as an attack - any thesis needs a clear side, a prejudice if you will.

As to your central theme, science is used as the same large club as religion. Stem cell research will cure cancer, impotence, and possibly hold the key to immortality.

Someone who takes a stance against stem cell (or abortion or whatever other tenets of the secular faith that is science tells you to believe) is ostracized as a caveman or willfully ignorant at best and a dangerous fanatic at the worst.

It really just depends on which fairy tale you want to believe.

Well yes, i didn't disguise what viewpoint i took, granted. Yet i disagree with being called prejudiced. Science in itself doesn't say that 'stem cell research = immortality', the media does. Scientific method is merely a set of rules, found to be useful and applicable in carrying out experiments. The outcomes become politicised.