Why do you need a bank?

they say "you don't own your posessions, they own you" I see the wisdom in that. I have no credit debt, but I understand the reason for doing it. I think I am just as happy without all the things being a credit card person brings, but sometimes it makes me sad that I have to live below what I could. but I don't give in. If that is ever what it takes to make me happy, I'll feel as though I've given up more than I'm getting back. fight the good fight people. I dont judge though because most people are into some debt.

Great thread.

I wish everyone in this country would just stop living on credit, we'd all be far better off. This country is so ass-backwards right now (USA) in every sector.

I'm $20,000 in debt for my college education, and 2 months out of school that seems like an insurmountable number. This whole system is decrepit and fraudulent.

Why the hell does it cost so much to go to school? And you wonder why the U.S. is lagging behind like a 3-legged-dog...

Great minds aren't afforded the chance to get an education. I was fortunate enough to have parents that helped me out, but even then I'm still in an enormous amount of debt.

All I can say is that people are going to have to wake up because their credit lifestyles are evaporating like a rain puddle in the Arizona heat.

[edit on 15-10-2008 by JipStix]

reply to post by absente


Hi. I was hoping you were going to explain how it is possible to get by without even opening a bank account. I've sometimes wondered whether it would be possible these days. Only a few days ago I read an article that seemed to suggest it was not really a viable option, while at the same time stating that:

According to the Citizens Advice Bureau, one in 12 households - 2.8 million adults in the UK - did not have any kind of bank account in 2006.

Source: How do you live without a bank account?

Bizarre, but fascinating.

I agree with your OP, though. It's just unfortunate that it takes a mess of the current magnitude to bring home how dangerous excessive debt can be.





[edit to add source]

[edit on 15/10/08 by pause4thought]

reply to post by palehorse28uk
I totally agree about paying with cash for things, and living within your means.

I raised 5 children by myself. Have been at my present job for 22 years, and additionally held a weekend job for 17 of those years.

I paid off the home that I am in, in just 15 years, take a nice vacation every year. I pay cash for everything and have no bills except my utilities, food and insurance.

No, I do not wear designer clothes, but I never felt the need to. I just purchased a new washer, dryer, stove and refrigerator, and had my kitchen remodeled. Paid for it all with cash!

Being a woman alone with 5 children forced me to practice a very common sense way of life.

reply to post by pause4thought


Thank you for that info! Although not all of it aplies to me because I'm not a UK resident it sure is usefull in some ways! I pay a lot in cash too, my rent and all the normal stuff (electricity and all) but some company's refuse cash unfortunatly.

reply to post by absente


Considering the 10 step program, I think that is a good model to live by, if you live in another country besides America.

This model ASSUMES that the average person has extra income to PUT towards retirement, savings, emergency fund, a car, a house (LOL), etc. Buddy, the vast majority of Americans live check to check with very little income left over at the end of the month, (regardless of credit cards and loans). It's because the cost of living is very high in America compared to the majority of other nations, and on average, employers don't pay a decent living wage. Most of them really CAN'T afford to pay you a decent living wage, let alone medical insurance. Simply put, the average American doesn't make enough $ to live by that model.

I personally think this is one of the side effects of deregulation... it is destabilizing and it creates a medium in which the intelligent sociopath can thrive at the expense of others in the most extreme way possible. Rape, pilage, plunder and move on to the next country. These corporate raiders will be coming to your country next, albeit with some other new scheme to screw you into their system.

Also, you should consider the source of your news. The average American does NOT have 16 credit cards! This is a spurious claim. The average American has 0-3 CCs and IF they are in debt it's somewhere around $1,000 - $10,000. Those people who have very high debt are the exception, not the rule, and are USUALLY people who have their own business.

So, save up for a $260,000 house (average going price for an old fixer-up house here in Sacramento) with my wage minus expenses... you've GOT to be kidding?

What....don't use credit, pay for things with currency that has negative value?

Federal reserve notes (dollar bills) are essentially the same thing as credit, so what exactly are you suggesting? When someone opens a credit card account, they are not spending any company's money...it's all about balancing the books for them. Read this book for more information: natural-person.ca...

I pay my credit card bills with a white piece of computer paper that has, among other various words and phrases, "This is worth $XXXX.XX. Accepted as value." It works, look it up!

Until the government/Federal Reserve comes up with notes that have intrinsic value, that's as good as handing the credit card companies a wad of cash!

[edit on 10/15/2008 by iceofspades]

everyone says money is the root of all evil... so why wouldn't they say the same about a bank? lol

star for yooo

Good thread, I suggest everyone who has a credit card or 3, cut 1 up NOW.
I just cut one up, it feels GOOD!!!
I will post a picture if people do not believe me

George,

Good post and i would have to agree with you on most things you said.But,nothing is black and white,unfortunately.
I was born in Eastern Europe and raised in the same way like you maybe.I live now in North America.Even though i agree that one should not live with "bad" debt,and probably for most people is their own fault if they are,not everyone is in a bad situation because of what they did.
Let me ask you George:
-Do you see your jobs going to China,leaving you and/or people you know unemployed ?
-Do you see your market flooded with cheap and unsafe products,food also,fomr the said far away locations,while your own farmers cannot make ends meet ?

I could ask more questions,but they might seem irrelevant,even though,everything ties in nicely with this actual mess that the powers in charge brought upon all of us....that,and maybe just a tad bit of our human nature,greediness and infatuation.They really know how to play with that.

Why would one need a bank ? Simple,because the system is made in such a way,that at least here,one cannot live without one. That does not mean that you should do stupid things.But then again,is about education and thinking about your own future,and i don't think is the bank's fault.

I agree with you that for all "small" things we should first save the money,and then buy.I do that too,and i am debt free,but then again,i don't own much

As for the "big" things,i don't believe it would be a practical way of doing it.By the time you save enough money to buy a house,you might be actually dead,or pretty close. But what's wrong with trying to save 25% of the cost of the house and not jumping head first ?

Oh,i can tell you what's wrong with that...at least here,somehow,people cannot save that kind of money..because their jobs have gone bye-bye...and that, I think, is what it will kill the cat in the long run.

[edit on 15-10-2008 by Bursuc]

[edit on 15-10-2008 by Bursuc]

[edit on 15-10-2008 by Bursuc]

Thank you for this post, it gave me a chuckle over my morning coffee.

However, what the author and others appear to not realize is that were it not for "Credit" all Americans and most of the people in the Western World would be living on and within there means and only have what they could pay for with the cash they earned or obtained by whatever means.

This being the case, most of you would not have a computer, a car, a house, a bed to sleep in and would be living much like those people in the third world most of us feel so sorry for.

If it were not for credit, and all the sweat shops and laborers in the 3rd world who earn less than $5 a day providing you with cheap goods and their countries buying all our mortgage debt, the realities of what and who you really are would be upon you now.

American lives on Credit and your life and who you are...I mean who and what you really are without the nice clothes and nice home and nice car would come rushing in..LOL

And if you think because you can have what you have without credit and living off of the credit created by others doing without, imagine the job you have and how well it would pay if your employer did not have customers without credit...lol peasants

As for doing without Banks...do it..go ahead. Go do like all the immigrants do and buy a money order at your local 7-11 to pay your bills or send cash..LOL go ahead.

The World is screaming about all the blood sucking crooks, while each and every one of you have fed on the scraps. Look at what you have and imagine what you would have and how you would be living were it not for credit.

Ironically, you all have known deep in your minds the truth about all of this and that is why you tear a crook apart when he is caught...that is why you are thrilled that OJ has is finally getting his justice; it allows you to point the finger away from yourselves and say, all the real liars, cheats, thieves and murderers inevitably get caught and since I am not in jail; since I have not been caught, I am not one of them.

Such hypocrites. Such fools. You want "Equality" but I doubt most of you can handle it.

I need a bank to balance my money and to save some along the way. I have direct deposit and would not want to pay a fee for cashing a check anywhere else. To carry large amounts of money on you or storing it in your house is just inviting criminals to come and rob you. I have no credit cards so I'm good with that. But a bank is a good thing if you use them correctly. I have children who I want to send to college so me and my spouse have set up saving accounts for them that draw interest in. To save for a house would be alot of money you would have to stuff or hide somewhere on your property and I don't want to be Lucius Clay in the wooley swamp burying my money in mason jars. I bank is convenient and on line bill pay is great. I save gas and time by paying my bills this way and thanks to my bank I didn't have to leave my house. Anyway that's my opinion about banks. Use them correctly and stay out of debt. Good post OP and star & flagged.

absente,

you are correct. I stopped using credit a long time ago, when I caught on pretty quickly to what a scam it was. My family said are you nuts! my friends said are you nuts!!!!y

my buddies all went on these crazy trips and vacations with every season of the year. I never went because I was always "broke". Nope I had the same amount of physical cash as all of them if not more. I just refused to use credit cards. now they all have about 20,000$ of credit card debt on average. and I have NO debt except to my student loans, and I have 4 payments left on my car. I live almost exclusively on cash.

Have credit cards, but I don't use them so my credit score is in the crapper because of that. weird how if you don't use credit you get a bad credit score. I have bank accounts but like to keep my money and not give BoA a bunch of money in BS and arbitrary fees.

Funny, all those people who thought I was nuts are now going. how'd he know all about this stuff years ago. well the fact is the credit card scam was obvious to anybody not snoozing over the last few years.

now before anybody out there in ATS land thinks I'm nuts, believe me I'm not. I know how money works. I have a series 66 financial securities license and a series 6.
Not the smartest kid on the block but no dummy either.

I nearly fully agree with you!
Generally:
ONLY Use your credit card, if you can pay it off FULLY when the bill comes and use it a couple of times a month to get a better credity rating.

Secondly:
The point of buying a house on a mortgage, is that you are paying the house off with the money you saved on rent. If you can't pay the house off with that money and you can't put a large down payment on the house then FORGET IT!

As for buying a new car => IMO waste of money, you lose a couple of Grand before the car is home! (I bought my car for 600.- Pounds and I've been driving it for a year and roundabout 15-20 Thousand miles. If it goes then tough, I'll buy a new one. It's way cheaper then triying to pay a several grand loan plus interest off!)


The biggest problem with this thread is => for most people this advice os sadly way too late...


BB,
Samuel

reply to post by absente


I've had this point of view my entire life. However lets think about housing a moment. Not many people will have the capital to buy a house outright and renting seems wasteful to me. I would agree with anyone getting a house on credit but i don't agree with the amount they borrow.

However as for the the examples you gave, i fully agree. I could have bought a mercedez on credit but instead i bought an estate outright. My phone is 3 or 4 years old and does everything i need it to. I have absolutely no debt for this very reasons, hell even my clothes are not branded as i never saw the point in labels. In the end i never understood the whole "keeping up with the jones's" mentality.

If more people felt that way, i think the world would be happier in general.

However i have a credit card for two reasons. Firstly it puts me on the credit ladder, something i wish didn't exist but is there. Secondly i get cash back, i pay it back in full every month and take their money. Actuallly i was booted off my last credit card because i was doing that. They really don't like you taking advantage of them lol.

[edit on 15-10-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by BASSPLYR


You see, this is contradictory though. Cash is negative value. Credit is nothing at all. The credit companies get people wrapped up in the idea that they're borrowing money from their coffers. THAT'S NOT TRUE. Credit is a an electronic value created when you sign your signature on an application. The Fed gives the companies the electronic value to balance their books.

YOU ARE NOT TAKING ANYTHING FROM Capital One (for example) when you use a credit card they give you. If you "pay your bills", you have effectively paid TWICE. They have already balanced book the moment you sign.

And here we are presented with another fallacy...the cash you use to "pay your credit bills" is ALSO worth nothing. This is what makes it possible to discharge the "debt" by, basically, telling the company to shove off until they can prove to you that you owe them anything at all.

The credit scheme a wild conspiracy that is rarely discussed even here. The companies want you to be wrapped up in the anxiety and hopelessness that this monopoly game this tends to bring. The fact is, no matter what your credit line is, the credit companies have lent you less than nothing, and expect you to give them play paper monopoly money as a "payment". The whole system is a contradiction. In order to free yourself, you must research this to help yourself STOP BEING AFRAID.


[edit on 10/15/2008 by iceofspades]

This is my first post, so hello to all at ATS!

I also live credit free apart from my house, but that is well within my means.
I agree with all that has been said on this thread about the financial benefits of living debt free, but i'd like to mention the spiritual benefit.

Buddha said 'all suffering stems from the desire for material things' and Jesus said 'of all material things, pray only for your daily bread' (these may not be word for word quotes).

I'm not religious, but i agree-the things that matter can't be bought with money, and once you realise that, as i know from experience, you become a happier, healthier person. To me, that's the best reason of all for living within your means.

Great Post OP!!!

I also live debt free...in the US I might add! I have not one single Credit Card, though I do use the bank but only because it makes it so I don't have to deal with sending my bills out. I pay all my bills online via my debit card. And no my Debit card can NOT be used as a Credit card, I never did get that option in place.

I also own my own car. I only payed $100 for it!!! Sure it's old - a 1996 car, I had to spend some money to get some things fixed on it but I don't have it on loan, I do not have to keep the most expensive insurance on it because of that either.

I also own my own place. Now it's not a home, it is a trailer and the only thing I have to pay per month is lot rent. However the trailer is paid off and since I am single there is no need to a bigger place. I still don't understand why people think they NEED big places to live in. All you do is sleep there and sometimes do your eating there. You don't need a place with 10+ rooms in it. Now if you have a big family, that is different.

So it breaks down to this... I only play per month for my lot rent, gas,electric, cable ( internet ) and my phone. Not bad really. I have not one single monthly charge I pay for and have not one card to even rack up a bill on

I also found out the other day I don't have a credit rating anymore because I have not charged anything for soooo long LOL. I used a free credit webpage to look mine up and it says to me " you do not have enough credit for us to give you a number at this time" Oh well... I already have my own car and home... who cares HAHAHA

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by absente

 

Hi. I was hoping you were going to explain how it is possible to get by without even opening a bank account. I've sometimes wondered whether it would be possible these days. Only a few days ago I read an article that seemed to suggest it was not really a viable option, while at the same time stating that:

According to the Citizens Advice Bureau, one in 12 households - 2.8 million adults in the UK - did not have any kind of bank account in 2006.

Source: How do you live without a bank account?

Bizarre, but fascinating.

I agree with your OP, though. It's just unfortunate that it takes a mess of the current magnitude to bring home how dangerous excessive debt can be.





[edit to add source]

[edit on 15/10/08 by pause4thought]

It's very easy to live without one. Matter a fact I could live without mine NP. However it would at this point cost me a little more in my life to NOT have one then to do. I am not saying they are good, just that for me it would cost a little more.

Right now I have a non-monthly fee account - no matter how much I have in my account. I only use my account for two things, to cash checks ... as in deposit them into the account and the other thing is for my debit card to be able to have it to pay monthly bills. I don't even own checks or a check book.

If I have no account I could go up to my local Hy-Vee/WalMart and have them cash my check for a small fee. I also could pay all my monthly bills by going to the same places and getting money orders for my bills and mailing them in ( which I would also have to buy stamps each month ) for a small fee.

So like I said, it is in NO way hard to live without the bank. I just don't because of what I said in the last paragraph. It saves me check cashing fee, fee for money orders and the price of stamps. Matter a fact, I don't even know how much a stamp costs, I haven't had to mail anything for soooo long. ( unless I used FEDEX )

Its not the world that has to change - its YOU - only you. And everything will be better. Life is not about making as much money as you can, living a jet set life on three different continents - no, that's what they manipulate you to be your goal. It isn't, right? Look at you purpose as a human - building a family, having kids this is a priority. Is a new TV more meaningful then buying your kid new shoes? Do you really have to drive a 2005 Mercedes on credit, when you can have a "normal" car for the fifth of the amount - by paying it cash?

so as a human being my only reason to live is to build a family, and pro create? lol

yes a new tv is more meaningful than that, because i dont have kids.

if i can afford to have a 2005 mercedes on credit, than what does it matter?

life is about making as much money as i can, i assure you. the more money i make, the more freedom i get, and the more freedoms i can provide for friends and family. i cant help any of my friends or family out, if i cant help myself out. i cant help my wife, or kids out (if i had them), if i cant help myself out.

you live in a world where two things will provide you ultimate freedom, and usually one will get the other, and thats knowledge and money. knowledge without money is a monk living in a hut on the top of the mountain, being self righteous. lame. money without knowledge, is like being autistic with 30 million dollars, letting it all go to waste because you dont know what to do with it.

Look at yourself and start questioning your life. Change your priorities - look at the future and realize that your whole life is a waste of time, if you don't change it.

who are you to tell me what is a waste of my time, and what is not. really, who are you?

Life without credit isn't easy - but it's pure - you feel a little more free. I can do what i want, because everything I have belongs to me and my family.

understandable

So why are you a slave to your bank? Why is your while life depending on other people? Why are you their tool? Why are you wasting time in watching sitcoms you have watched 10 times before, watching news when you can't do anything about it, buy a new TV that gets old even before you switch it on. Use that time to learn new things, bringing you maybe a second job - start painting, or web design or whatever but do something useful.

because the average person does'nt feel they can handle large sums of money without the bank, and regardless of what people think now, giving the state of america's economy, its safer to alot of people to keep their money in a bank, rather than buy a lock box for it to keep in their house.

name one person who's entire existance does not depend on at least one person, and i will merely call you and him a liar, because that doesnt exist. i know what you're hinting at, which is, why are you dependent on banks to help you manage your money, and credit card companies to handle your purchases, why not just handle it yourself, and for some people, your right, for many others, its just a convenience issue, and or, it doesnt matter, because they can do it perfectly fine.

why are you worried about what someones watching? you said why are you watching the news, when there is nothing you can do about it, but why are you posting in this forum about people not using credit, when there is nothing YOU can do about it? i mean, you come in stomping your big dog feet, but your just like everyone else, except you standout in one way, you dont believe in using credit and getting caught up in the game of living beyond your means. whoop di do

i dont mean to come off pis@y, but the fact of the matter is, yes, i would rather keep large sums of my money in the bank, rather than in my house. yes, i like to be able to sign on the net, buy something real quick with my card, and then go on about my day.

oh, by the way, there are prepaid credit cards for those who still want to use their own money, but dont want to use what they might not have. not to be patronizing, but just in case someone reading this didnt know that, now you know. greendot is a company i know of.

if you can live without credit, fine, who cares. i dont know how you expect to pay for your childrens college schooling, but thats none of my business. just saying, especially considering that you said money isnt everything, but then i guess you have an alternative for the things in life that are gonna cost more than just a couple thousand.

can you live without a hd tv that you probably wont appreciate, a brand new toyota whatever, and touch screen computer, etc... YES YES YES, but dont think so low of yourself people. if you can afford it, than go ahead. if you can afford to pay 60 dollars a month for a few years, to get you something you really like, and that has some decent value, and that you can truly use, than do it. you can do anything you put your mind to. dont limit your life to reading internet drool about how you are living beyond your means, and why are you using a bank.

if you cant afford it now, than you need to get more money. it should be your motivational tool. damn i wish i could get a 09 lexus, than change yourself so you can get it, dont start dumbing yourself down to believe that what YOU WANT is trivial, and you should be spending your time doing something more "constructive" like reading a book, or buying stuff for you kids.

op, you just sound like a mid grade hater. you mad because people are out there using credit to their benefit, and your only string to pull on is the garbage arse statistics you hear on the tv, or read on the internet. the propaganda fueled statistics. please

get out of here. i dont post much, but i saw this and was like wtf. you have some points, but at the end of the day, if you cant afford it, okay, you should be smart enough to deduce that, but if you want it, keep your eye on the target, and do what you need to get it.

for those reading this, never compare youself to another man/woman, your not them, so do you.



[edit on 15-10-2008 by jimmy1200]