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Why isn't there any proof of Aliens/UFOS ?

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posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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i dont understand why several people don't just get together, combine resources and get some good proof. There are plenty of people who are abducted on a reocurring basis. Why aren't plans put into affect to try and intervene or gain some kind of real evidence. There are thousands of people out there who want the truth, all with different skill sets and resources to offer. Its absolutely beyond me why someone doesn't organize efforts to combine these different talents and abilities to get something done. I'm sure if people put their minds together someone could come up with something.




posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by stringue
 


I would also state that the government has in its possession crashed disks and alien bodies. There have been all kinds of memos and records about a cargo taken to Wright Patterson Field after the crash at Roswell. They would not have done that to a weather balloon, even if it was Project Mogul. Something crashed that was not ours there.

Also, the Betty and Barney Hill case is still one of the best out there. Physical evidence and a radar confirmation by Pease AFB of an unknown object at the same time of the incident.

I also think the LA incident is one of the more under rated ones in the early history of UFOs. This is before the disk craze that was started, and there are news releases about it.

There is evidence, and to give up because of the more fringe beliefs out there is not logical.

As I have stated, what the UFO community needs is a good enema. A cleansing and a look at where to go from here. A vetting process for all claims that are made by the contactee/channeler/whistleblower types out there. Until this happens, there will be more people out there making outrageous claims, and the people who blindly follow them.



posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by stringue
 


I would also state that the government has in its possession crashed disks and alien bodies. There have been all kinds of memos and records about a cargo taken to Wright Patterson Field after the crash at Roswell. They would not have done that to a weather balloon, even if it was Project Mogul. Something crashed that was not ours there.


Again, we don't know this beyond doubt. What we have seen are documents that point towards a coverup. But, even that can be a ruse. The government has used the UFO story to cover *many* black projects and who knows what the hell else. UFO crashes and retrievals are also valuable to counter your enemy..."now they have something from another culture they can use against us", etc. It's all very vague and for enemies, it's something for them to ponder...what exactly did we find.

There are worse things then UFO crashes to cover up.

The enema thing, I'm in whole-hearted agreement with you there. Big time.



posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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We might already have the proof. We might well have genuine photos and videos of it.

The fact is if I walked out the door tommorrow and filmed a UFO clear as you like and posted it online, do you know what the response would be?

That its a hoax, that my camera angle was obviously bad, that the movement wasnt realistic, that this wasnt in the shot, that x was wrong and y was missing, its CGI, its a hot air balloon.

Somethings are obviously faked, somethings seem real but have rational explanations but in this day and age even if you got the proof most people simply wouldnt believe it.

UFO study is too fragmented, too divided and too disorganised.

Whats really required is for a single serious body to be formed which includes members of all serious groups, to agree approaches, analysis requirements, and distribute better information on what you should try to do if you ever do film something, what sort of shot to try get, what background reference.

Video analysis for tampering needs to be standard procedure and further procedures created for studying and verifying footage and accounts. More combined and funded projects to try capture footage, and in general more open minded thinking, scientific approach and work towards a clear and determined set of objectives.

UFO study needs to shake of the tin foil hat tag and start showing itself to be serious, scientific and open minded right across the board.



posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by Malevolent_Aliens
reply to post by Picollo30
 


I can assure you ET's are real and they are here but don't take my word for it ...



You sort of contradicted yourself there. You can't really 'assure' someone and then tell them to not listen to you.


The probability of aliens is pretty solid. The probability of the amount of sightings recorded being "aliens", not so strong.



posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by silver6ix
We might already have the proof. We might well have genuine photos and videos of it.


After 20 years of video and photo analysis work in this field, I'm afraid to say that no video or photographic evidence means anything towards "proof", as it's desired. Photos and video tell you nothing - not what it's made of, not where it comes from, not who's inside. It's only a piece of evidence to add to the growing body of unknowns.


Originally posted by silver6ix
Whats really required is for a single serious body to be formed which includes members of all serious groups, to agree approaches, analysis requirements, and distribute better information on what you should try to do if you ever do film something, what sort of shot to try get, what background reference.


Getting that to happen my friend is as elusive as the enigma itself. Many have tried, including myself. There's simply too much divide in expectations...finding a like minded bunch from multiple disiplines, is very difficult. Finding ones with NO preconceived notions is next to impossible. If anyone could do that, Jacques Vallee could.



posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 09:38 PM
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Ive just been watching the Disclosure Project videos and also the Jose Escamilla film and to be fair, I think having seen it the proof is already there.

I had never seen that material before, the extended NASA footage of critters, the "Battle of LA", on top of that the lists of men and women who held high ranking positions who are willing to testify and have given evidence its pretty incredible stuff.

Having watched it all im pretty much stunned by it to be honest. Some of the information, the air brushed photos, tampered evidence, changed stories and tactics are just unfathomable.

When you couple together some of the stuff they have pointed out and how its showing itself in the designs and technology coming from the major aircraft builders and tech companies it really does hit home.

The most profound statement on the film really was "somewhere along the line, we have lost control of these projects".

It honestly sends a chill down your spine thinking about it, the implications are mind boggling.

For me everyone should throw their weight behind the Disclosure Project because that would seem to be the biggest and best shot there is of getting things out into the open.

Anyone who hasnt watched those films should really watch them, its pretty hard to discredit all of those people without beggaring belief really and some of the footage and facts shown, youd have to go a long long long way to conince me there isnt a lot of truth in some of that!



posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 09:41 PM
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I'm talking about real, unexplained UFO phenomena, including abductions, here. None of the fake stuff. None of the government stuff. But the real, freaky, weird, unexplainable stuff.

I agree with others here that there is a lot of evidence, and no definitive proof. None. You can certainly have your own opinion on what "degree" of proof is needed. But because UFOs are such a controversial subject, I tend to want to make the requirements for proof very high. Much higher than in a court of law, where innocence is assumed until proven otherwise. That doesn't work for me here.

The huge number of sightings and unusual things experienced by so many different people definitely suggests that something is going on. Even Occam's Razor, which is double-sided, would suggest that not all of the witnesses can be mistaken, hoaxing, or delusional. Most, sure. Every single one? I find that extremely improbable.

In fact, the lack of proof in the face of all the evidence might be the most intriguing piece of evidence itself.

Of what, though? I don't have a clue. Sorry. I just don't know.

Here's where I depart from the crowd who think that these things are all about aliens flying space ships from other planets. If those hypothetical aliens were anything like us, they're bound to make mistakes. Roswell and other crash mythology aside, more ships would crash. More bits of incriminating evidence would be found. As it is, these critters are essentially foolproof. They never leave behind enough evidence to get themselves caught, or properly explained.

And what that suggests to me is that we're not really dealing with critters kind of like us, just from other planets. Nobody or nothing can be that perfect. Instead, what it suggests is that what we see as UFOs or aliens who abduct people, and some of the other phenomena, is really a lot more complicated than we might think, and may actually represent something that is essentially incomprehensible to us. UFOs may be a manifestation of a particular aspect of life or space or time that we just don't understand because we are not much more than smart little monkeys.

We have an extremely limited understanding of time and consciousness. It could be that UFOs float in and out of other realities or other times in ways we can't comprehend. They may actually be manifested by our own minds. Imagination become real. Or something else completely.

Time travel makes good sense in some aspects of the argument, and can be used to explain the UFO's perfect track record. If you screw up somehow in the past that reveals your identity and mission, you just go back and fix it before it ever happens. It also explains why they would be so reticent and secretive. They don't want to mess up their own futures, as it were. Proving something like time travel is tough, though.

So at this point, "I don't know" is still the best answer to the whole UFO mystery.

As I always say, I think people who exclusively buy into the whole notion of Star Trek type space aliens display an appalling lack of imagination.


[edit on 16-10-2008 by Nohup]



posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by Nohup
 





Time travel makes good sense in some aspects of the argument, and can be used to explain the UFO's perfect track record. If you screw up somehow in the past that reveals your identity and mission, you just go back and fix it before it ever happens.





About time...




posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by Picollo30
Ufology is in serious NEED of PROOF. So far we have nothing. What do we have? Only a few pics here and there (many of them Photoshopped) and some videos (most of them CGI).



I think a definition of what EXACTLY, in detail, constitutes "proof" for you would be in order.
(Please, note that this is NOT a rhetorical question.)



for me seeing is believing



You mean YOUR seeing is believing?
(As opposed to the seeing of others, even if they include thousands of perfectly respectable and rational citizens around the world.)

Beware.
There is no easier prey for manipulators than one who relies solely on his/her own limited physical senses.







[edit on 17-10-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 12:33 AM
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If your belief in UFOs/aliens was shaken by these common charlatans, I'd suggest to you that your beliefs weren't that strong to begin with.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by panda319
 



You sort of contradicted yourself there. You can't really 'assure' someone and then tell them to not listen to you.


True good point,
I guess when someone like me for instance has had experiences and knows beyond a shadow of a doubt I tend to stretch my words watching others question certain areas that I know to be a reality. lol I guess it's impossible to assure anyone of such things because who can just take someone's word for it, especially on a website like ATS. lol You need to learn and experience these things for yourself to actually know for yourself like anything else in life.


The probability of aliens is pretty solid. The probability of the amount of sightings recorded being "aliens", not so strong.


Very true and I agree, most objects seen are not of ET origin and belong to us or are natural phenomena. If someone does have a real sighting or contact experience it is not by their own choice but by ET's choice.

I always leave people with believe what you choose to believe and always follow your heart because of course I am not on a mission to convince people only share my experiences.

Kindest Regards,






[edit on 17-10-2008 by Malevolent_Aliens]



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 01:14 AM
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Right now heres my belief on why theres no proof.

We could have totally genuine footage of UFOs......nobody would believe it.

We could have analysis of the film saying it was true.....the analysis would be called fake.

We could have alien material...it would be called plastic or a sat part

We could have analysis of the material saing it was alien.....the analysis would be called fake

Aliens could pop out and dance around in front of 20 people with quality cameras...it would be called a hoax

We could have a blackops specialist team of 10000000 people come forth and give evidence...they would be called nut jobs

Its almost more incredible than the idea that aliens are already living here. We are literally a planet of mushrooms and we dont even know it



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 03:47 AM
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reply to post by silver6ix
 


I completely agree with you. Unfortunately those that ignorantly dismiss the entire phenomena probably greatly outnumber those that 'have an open mind' and the total believers put together.

What would it actually take for every single person on this planet to finally conclude the phenomena is real or not?

I think that is a question all people interested in proving one way or the other should consider.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 03:58 AM
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I myself do not know why the government chooses to block out contact with UFO's or E.T's. Maybe they are scared at the fact we want to know. Maybe they don't want to cause mass panic.

The truth is, if we actually made contact publically we wouldn't be affraid unless they were hostile, and by the sounds of accounts given by people and sightings they seem to just want to know a bit about our planet. Maybe they wish to share information or help us out, because we are a new planet compared to others out there.

There technology is way more advanced than ours. Possibly using gravitational pulls to move around at light speed. Think about how much we could benefit with their information and out info combined.

The government need to ponder and think about what this earth truly needs and that is the "TRUTH"



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 04:03 AM
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Timothy Good's book Above Top Secret, where no doubt this site derived its identity from, discuses this notion of why there is no proof quite well.

Ok the chances of modern planes crashing is about 1 in a million (1,000,000), thats why after all they are noted to be the safest form of travel, regardless of what programes like lost would sugguest lol. Now, few people will ever see a plane crash in their life times, even more substancial is the fact that few people will ever see plane reckage as proof even if one does, the world is a huge place.

The point is as the discloser project general said, alien technology, in order for them to even reach us has to be better than our own crafts, and if ours are 1 in a million, lets just say as a minimal estimation they are twice as good, the chances of anyone seeing one aside from the military actively searching is incredably low, which i imagine is why roswell captured the imaginations of so many people. There technology is more safer so they go down less, ok but as the disclosure project noted, just like our own military try to get the personel aboard and the secret technologies on the crafts. they also do it but with rather more accuracy and speed- obviously.

the point timothy was trying to make in above top secret is, there will never be hard evidence to hold into your hands at any point, not whilst there are factions in our own government eager to fire on these things and back date technolgoy or the need to control the public reation. Most people joke at the expense of good scientists who really do believe the notion of extrarestial life as more than probabal as laughable. International politics and ideologies govern how our own governments produce their policies, i am guessing that their own governments have the same need to divide and rule and so secrecy and secret aliances between various factions in our own government and others will always logicaly prevent the spread of any technology or weaponry, it works on the case of our own in history so can easily be applied.

the government does not tell its people its secrets about its own made weapnry why would it telll them about some made elsewhere when it could scare and ruin alot of peoples notions about this planet and the public trust of world wide governments.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by Picollo30
 


I only read the title of the thread and think you should change it to "Why isn't there any proof of Aliens?" because I have seen a UFO. I witnessed a craft hover at a stand still and dart away in a fraction of a second. When I first saw it I though it was a blimp of some sort because of its shape until it left fast enough to only leave behind a streak of light.

I have witnessed a UFO and they do in fact exist. I hope this helps you in whatever you are looking for.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 10:55 AM
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I wonder - If Aliens are clever enough to travel all this way to see us or whatever then why are they so shy ?.

Why don't they just turn up in the shopping mall ?.

Tweakie.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:01 AM
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Proof..such a fragile and difficult word..

I know in my heart and soul that I love my wife, my parents and that new restaurant on the corner.. but to prove it to another person is very difficult to do. he might not "believe" you on your word.. (try to provide proof that you love(d) you deceased grandparents!)

I know a lot of people that believe in some form of "god".. they try hard, but fail to provide me needed proof that he or she exists..

I know some people that believe in UFO´s.. they try hard, but fail to provide me needed proof that they exist..

does this make it not true? for me, not at all.. Proof is in the eye of the beholder...

Some (see lightblossome´s case) need only minimal proof (a 45$ e-book and some tapes) to know and believe something will happen at a certain time and place. Some need to have a certain special individual saying it (jesus or any other saviour) to make it true... Some only need a picture, a sound or a "feeling".. etc, etc...

and I?

Luckily I only need "myself" to make the rules I need for "proof", let other people think and believe what they want..

for me, my "intelligence" tells me there is life on other planets. for me, that is all the proof I need.. why bother trying to provide such overwhelming "proof" so that non-believers (because that is the root of the question here) can be overhauled to think otherwise? This is also where religion is all about!

now, why certain individuals and governments try to prevent persons like me to "freely" decide if a certain happening or "incident" was real or not, that is another subject..

If you think its true, good for you! If you think its just some swapgas, good for you! just dont try to shove that OPINION in my face with proof that you think is real/not real/bunk/debunk/whatever! just point to the facts and let me make my own conclusions..

now was that a green or a blue car racing by?



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by Tweakie
 


The "alien" perspective would be hard to gauge. It might well be that they are studying us, trying to learn what we are, how we are, what dangers we pose biologically, what diseases we carry, whatever.

They might well regard us as little more than a pimitive tribe.

I definately see a change in pattern in sightings thoug, although ill admit im not the best informed person. I would say that this year and last sightings, large public overt ones, are becoming more and more common.

Why that is I couldnt guess unless they only just arrived, or theres some other reason I cant think of for the escalation in sightings.

Maybe the government have recovered crash parts and maybe only now are the observing species capable enough in understanding our society and language to realise how the hierarchy works and that we are beng kept from the truth? Maybe they plan to communicate and are trying to "test the water" or desensitize us to the idea.

In that sense we could be guessing all day. All I can say is there seems to bea major increase in confirmed sightings, UK has had many very public sightings and has made the news more than once this year. As have several other countries so its definately a more growing issue.



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