There is a company online that wants to buy your soul, page 3

reply to post by dave420

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OK, let's use theoretical science. Science has proven that the entire universe is comprised of energy. Einstein postulated that energy never disapates and that organized energy never disorganizes. The electical impulses that make up your personality are your 'soul'. They are by definition energy. That energy never disapates. That energy never disorganizes. It is eternal. So, science has proven the existance of the soul. Surprise! You have one! (There is no Satan, though. And you can't sell it.)

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by ::.mika.::

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You are so wrong it's incredible. Trusting one's own experiences is the least-accurate way to know something. It is the antithesis of science. Our perceptions are so flawed it's not even funny. That's why science dictates multiple independent observers, or at least consistently-repeatable experiments. You are apparently espousing the "if someone somewhere says something happened, then it happened" school of learning, which is ridiculous. I guess all the people with mental illness that makes them see and hear things which aren't there are actually seeing and hearing real things. Because that's what your logic dictates. And clearly that's not right.

Thank you for illustrating your irrational thought processes so well. I now know it's pointless trying to have a rational discussion with you, as logic doesn't mean squat, apparently.

People taught to mistrust their experiences is what you consider good science? When Science begins to respond to the real experiences of people, it will make some astonishing gains. That being said, while my uncle was a physicist.

reply to post by ::.mika.::

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No. It's the logical vs. the illogical, leaps of faith vs. objectivity. Don't try to spin it any other way, as that is clearly not the case.

reply to post by mystiq

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It *is* good science. Using an already-flawed instrument (the brain) to observe said instrument failing is obviously not going to yield any sort of quality evidence. I doubt you'd trust a broken calculator to work out your tax return, but you seem willing to trust a broken brain.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by ::.mika.::

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No. It's the logical vs. the illogical, leaps of faith vs. objectivity. Don't try to spin it any other way, as that is clearly not the case.

well experiences have not much to do with faith,
whereas faith is exactly what is created by human conditionning : a knowledge without any experience of it.

then if objectivity is

[ to ignore all the knowledge that men & cultures have discovered from experiments and experiences and gathered independently about the exploration of the self, the mind and its inner soul in massive quantities and with amazing convergence, throughout times and continents ]

in order to be allowed to embrace as undeniable proof the paradigms set by some economic power that only wants men to focus on his material life so they will generate always more and more profit.

then yes you are, objective.

congratulations.

reply to post by ::.mika.::

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You're the one ignoring the scientific discoveries that allow us to know, not guess, what drives the human mind, not me.

But nice try.

reply to post by dave420

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which discoveries are you talking about ?

(don't you know that your dear scientists-gods have better understanding of the functioning of the universe -although they are still very far to theorize a really realistic model- than the one of the brain, where they are entirely and totally lost ?)

(and prove some consciousness there in not replying insane psychiatrists bull#s or i'll send you back to the history of psychiatry)

reply to post by ::.mika.::

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Really? You don't know about any of the studies involving the electrochemical activity of the brain during different human experiences? Such as memory recollection, thought, emotions, reactions, etc.?

So far there is not one aspect of the 'soul' that hasn't been explained away by examination of the working of the brain. Not a single one.

Deny ignorance. Don't exalt it.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by ::.mika.::

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Really? You don't know about any of the studies involving the electrochemical activity of the brain during different human experiences? Such as memory recollection, thought, emotions, reactions, etc.?

So far there is not one aspect of the 'soul' that hasn't been explained away by examination of the working of the brain. Not a single one.

even if it is was real, i'm not sure why saying that the soul has been all explained scientifically would mean that soul doesn't exist (because it was your point, this non-existence)

however i'd be happy to see a study demonstrating that the electrical events that occur in brain and body are consequences of a chemical reaction (and that is not some fantasm of some psychopathic psychiatrist or megalomaniac bio-genetician)

reply to post by ::.mika.::

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Really? You don't know about that? Just read the wikipedia article on it, as that will have a whole host of new information for you.

And yes, the 'soul' is just a short way of saying 'the pathways of neurons in our brains and the messages passed over them'. Just as with every tangible thing else described in the Bible, we can now know what it is, and not have to settle for these half-assed pseudomystical explanations that try to put what is a basic function of the human brain on some untouchable pedestal of supernatural, otherworldly, perpetual mystery. It's good to learn.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by ::.mika.::

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Really? You don't know about that? Just read the wikipedia article on it, as that will have a whole host of new information for you.

And yes, the 'soul' is just a short way of saying 'the pathways of neurons in our brains and the messages passed over them'. Just as with every tangible thing else described in the Bible, we can now know what it is, and not have to settle for these half-assed pseudomystical explanations that try to put what is a basic function of the human brain on some untouchable pedestal of supernatural, otherworldly, perpetual mystery. It's good to learn.

you're fun to create amalgam with bible
but not very constructive,
nor very informed; i'd be expecting a concrete source in a scientific review from einstein-like scientists that studied that for years in all corners: "how the electro-magnetic waves that transmit and receive the brain are created by some chemical reactions",
also then i'll be able to make my point about chemicals, energies and the mind)

ps edit :

'the pathways of neurons in our brains and the messages passed over them'

that is the memory, the intellect receiving impulses from senses.

[edit on 17-10-2008 by ::.mika.::]

reply to post by ::.mika.::

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Yeah, the sensory information travels across the nerves, through defined pathways. That's how the brain works. Memory is just one aspect of brain function, all using the same equipment. Similar to an analogue computer, but organised in a completely different fashion.

If you can't even be bothered to learn some basic biology before leaping into the realm of the fanciful, that's not my problem. Be my guest.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by ::.mika.::

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Yeah, the sensory information travels across the nerves, through defined pathways. That's how the brain works. Memory is just one aspect of brain function, all using the same equipment. Similar to an analogue computer, but organised in a completely different fashion.

If you can't even be bothered to learn some basic biology before leaping into the realm of the fanciful, that's not my problem. Be my guest.

ok as expected you don't have a clue and you prefer to underestimate people with experience than to open your mind to what you were never told before and therefore never experience for yourself to know

lesson of spirituality for you my dear knowbetterthananybodyalthoughdontevenknowwhathestalkingabout friend :

you won't make it in one go, you'll need to practice, to be patient and give some willingness to really Know by yourself (not by google or some conditioned and absolutely relative logic) what's in you

steps :

*put some harmonious music , beatless is better.(a nice sitar alap is actually perfect-chose the rag accordingly to season and part of the day-morning is better)

*seat in a taylor way (hold your back), or lay down in a rigorously straight manner, hand palms to the top, arms along the body not over it

*identify/perceive your ego and quiet it down

* once ego is quiet and not altering thoughts and perceptions, quiet down the intellect (which includes the memory and your logics and beliefs) so that it is also not triggering any thoughts or altering perceptions

*once intellect is quiet too, you may now enjoy full control of your senses

*now switch off the senses too

when all those componants of the mind that creates perceptions are switch off, you may now realize if there is something left or not whithin your self

if you don't find the power to achieve those primary exercises, it means you have no control on your mind and that therefore you are a weak being (as 98% of western people don't worry, it is a huge consumerist pathology -ego cult society !)

tips : you can progress more easily and more quickly through those steps by focusing on your breath

good luck

psedit: what about those chemical reactions that induce electro-magnetic waves ??? noone knows about that but you, still you always answer beside the question, therefore ignoring it... why ? it's easy to give a book, a name, a link when we know.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by ::.mika.::]

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