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Why do women break up with nice guys?

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posted on Oct, 19 2008 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd
 


Agreed. Not sure what your point is, though. There's a time and a place for everything. Self-discipline is part of being a grown-up.

Ask a (male) cop if men have intuition. They just call it "a gut feeling" cuz it sounds more manly. Any men in this thread that have not cried? No need for a show of hands. No shame. No one's going to take your guy license away. Now if you start blubbering because you got a flat tire and are going to be late for kickoff that's neither the time nor the place and shows a serious lack of self-discipline (and some really messed up priorities).

I am, and work with, critical care nurses. You wanna talk about stone cold? I hold it all in and do my job in what is virtually a battlefield. I know all about shutting yourself off in order to "take care of business" but I also know that unless you find a relief pressure valve once in a while, you're going to wind up an alcoholic or drug addict. I am neither because I don't deny my humanity.

Back on topic: I'm curious as to what the OP is looking for in a female. It's been my observation that guys say they want a particular type of female and then look for her in places she'd never be found. They want a "good girl" and then go hang out at the bars and are genuinely surprised when the "good girl" they found there turns out to be slagathor.




posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by whitewave
 



Whitewave,


My 19 year old daughter was whinning to me today about her 19 year old boyfriend. (man! I'm old!). Anyway, realizing that no matter what I said, even if I agreed with her, I'd be the bad guy, I volunteered: "he's a nice boy." She sighed and said, "I know. What's wrong with me?" I said, "nothing's wrong with you, honey, you just need a man, not a boy." She was totally shocked and said, "that's exactly it!"


Is this a Kodak moment or what.?? Hope this sticks with her a long long time. Good advice Whitewave.

Good for you again about your 10 year old son. Good to see ones teaching bearing fruit. Another Kodak moment!! Contratulations Whitewave..to your son as well!!

I have to disagree with Herman in a sense. Men do indeed require taking care of as well. A woman of acumen and perception should be able to look down inside a man and see what is missing from his life....and endevour to fill that need. A woman who is this sharp can put a man on a drug...a drug on which he will never want to leave.
The textbook assumption of so many women..is "I should be enough for him!!"...Not what is missing from his life..internally. But conversely the sad truth is that so many men themselves do not comprehend this idea or concept. So how would they ever be able to lead a woman in this arena??
So how could a textbook male ever be able to expect more from a woman than television and magazine advertising?? Or Movie standards?? Dumb isnt it??

Speaking of Dumb...
I cant believe someone else out here said something about Dumb males??
Goodness me...you mean I no longer have the field to myself? LOL LOL!!

LOL LOL..."I'm a Victim!! I'm a Victim!!"


i]We must have different definitions for "MEN" then. As I have told my daughters (and sons): Men are allowed to be fallable, have and show emotions, be afraid, etc. Doesn't make then less manly.

Not speaking for all women here but in my books the difference between boys and men is honor. Boys either avoid difficult/painful situations or run away from them. Men will take a more honorable course. Women will too.


Bravo..Bravo..well said ..Whitewave..well said. Thanks. I needed to hear that.
I agree.

However Whitewave...here...this..


Either sex that expects the other to "take care of them" is immature and not worth even bothering with for relationship purposes.


I dont necessarily agree here. Caring for one another is also taking care of each other. Most men of any caliber are accustomed to taking care of their security needs for themselves. Likewise he does not need to be taking alot of time taking care of what his woman can take care of for herself...to the point he becomes a burden or intrustion in this arena of hers. There are indeed women who take pride in being able to do things by themselves and for themselves. I am all for this.
A couple..should be a type or version of complimentary ...taking care of that which their partner cannot or doesnt quite understand...complimentary. helpful..caring. Not burdensome per se..not consumptive by entitlement. But complimentary and in this caring.

Does this make sense or am I off base here?? In this complimenting..they are matched indeed.


Ever wonder why more men hold positions of power? It's because we are stone cold. We're expected to make decisions, as leaders, in a logical and unemotional manner. This is classic body language assesment. You'll notice that women in power are very much like men.


I disagree here a bit. Men can be quite emotional. I think many women do not perceive this....or take this for granted. What many men know how to do is harness or control thier emotions in order to accomplish certain kinds of tasks. This is the part I think so many women take for granted about men.
I have learned by experience ..that most women do not want an emotional man..per se...they do not want the competition from a man for emotions. They want a man who is emotional about them. This is a clear discinction to a man who knows the difference. A woman as well.

Men know fear as well as women. Most just know how to dicipline thier fears....but they know fear nontheless...leaders too. This does not make men better..not at all. It makes them very different.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 02:14 AM
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Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd
Guys too, but women already understand this. Sometimes I wonder where the problem really lies. Are women really so hard to understand, or, are men just too dumb to get it?


Personally, I think it's neither. They're not hard to understand, but for some reason men want to make them hard to understand. Maybe I'm just a very perceptive male, but people VERY rarely surprise me - male or female. Honestly, even when my last relationship failed, I saw it coming. I knew exactly what I could have said or done to make it work, but I knew that it would require being fake. I had to to let it take its natural course, and although I was extremely upset, I understood that faking things or strategizing would mean that in the long run, the relationship would not have been real and would have been relying on an unstable foundation. I think men like to think of women as complicated for one reason or another. I think you hit it on the head - a lot of women (or girls?) want what they can't have, and rarely know what they actually DO want. They are on average more intuitive, and and the indecisiveness comes from wanting what they can't have, or perhaps wanting it all? Of course, all people are different as individuals, so those things aren't always true.



Oh, and is there a problem with the other 50 "Nice guy/girls are weird" threads?
-Dev


Yeah, seriously. What's with all of these? I didn't even want to jump in, but I sort of felt compelled to.

Whitewave,

I really like your definition of men, and I agree.



posted by orangetom
I have to disagree with Herman in a sense. Men do indeed require taking care of as well.


Was I not clear? You and whitewave both seem to have misinterpreted what I was saying. I said that men DO require care, and that men DO have problems and faults. We're expected by many to be a rock that never falters or doubts himself, but that's not a true definition in any case.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by Herman]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 03:12 AM
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Originally posted by Herman
I think you hit it on the head - a lot of women (or girls?) want what they can't have, and rarely know what they actually DO want.

*Snip*

Of course, all people are different as individuals, so those things aren't always true.


As to the latter part of your post, individuals acting different would be the exception, not the rule. People as a whole are easy to predict, as you know. Patterns emerge, only observation and experience will tell. Which leads to the my next point...

Most girls that I date are around 21. I can honestly tell you, they don't know what they want. You, my friend, have hit the proverbial nail on the head, not I.


Only through observation and experience, or what I call age, does a woman truely understand what she wants. It's a big cycle....

As a girl, she probably does truely want a nice guy that will take care of her, like a princess. What little girl doesn't want to be a princess with a prince to sweep her off her feet? As a young lady she "thinks" she wants a nice guy, but her actions and dating history prove otherwise. She knows deep down she can take care of herself and by now she wants a guy that is confident, spontaneous, and fun. Not someone who tries too hard to emulate prince charming. As she matures and ages, she begins to make exceptions. She realizes how most of those "confident" guys are D-bags that could care less about her feelings. Now she can barely find someone that can fulfill her needs. A guy that is a "nice guy", that can take care of her.

You see, the little girl can't really have the prince. Fairy tales aren't true. The young lady can't have the confident BadA$$. He's out with different girl every night. And the experienced woman can't find a "nice guy". They're all taken.

You want what you can't have.

It's ok ladies, we do too.


-Dev



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by Herman
Was I not clear? You and whitewave both seem to have misinterpreted what I was saying. I said that men DO require care, and that men DO have problems and faults.


When I read your post I understood it to be more about who is leading. Of course both genders require "care", that is a given. But who is the natural leader in the relationship is a whole other matter.

---------------------------------------------

To whitewave. I find it odd that you, a mature woman, would choose to use a term like "slagathor".



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 05:21 PM
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I think part of the nice guy's problem is that because he is nice he thinks he can do no wrong. It can make him appear very self-righteous.

The impression given is that being nice should be enough and if it isn't, then the woman must be at fault for not appreciating the niceness. Or even for daring to want more.

Always being nice must be a terrible burden. Nice people can have trouble expressing their true emotions because they don't want to be seen as 'not nice'.

This can result in sulking or some other unattractive behaviour because a nice person will not or cannot own up to their real problem - leaving their partner baffled.

Nice people can also have a hidden, darker side that only manifests later on in a relationship when they can't keep up the niceness or they find themselves opposed or thwarted.

If you find yourself with an out-and-out bxstxrd, there is always hope that he will see the error of his ways - after all his faults are so obvious. And a harsh exterior can hide a soft and loving interior.

I do agree with so much else that has been said already - particularly that the important thing is to be with the right person.

Maybe Mr Nice Guy should give a woman credit for ending a relationship that she feels isn't right for her instead of moaning that she should have been satisfied with him because he was nice.



posted on Oct, 21 2008 @ 10:06 AM
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To whitewave. I find it odd that you, a mature woman, would choose to use a term like "slagathor".

Is that a disapproving scowl I detect?

Since the majority on this site are younger people, I try to keep the readership demographic population in mind when posting, especially on these kinds of topics.

The "mature" audience already knows the answer to the question posed by the OP.

I don't think I'm making myself understood here. Men and women need taking care of but I don't think either of them should expect the other to take the role of parental figure. If you still need a parental figure you're not ready for a romantic relationship.



[edit on 21-10-2008 by whitewave]



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by berenike
 


berenike,


I think part of the nice guy's problem is that because he is nice he thinks he can do no wrong. It can make him appear very self-righteous.


Nice guys have no monopoly on this type of behavior. I know many women with the exact same fingerprint. It is very easy to "appear " mature when ones primary social expectations and beliefs are of someone else to perform up to expectations. To try out for approval.
Do you buy Cosmo magazine and take the quizzes?? I do!!


Always being nice must be a terrible burden. Nice people can have trouble expressing their true emotions because they don't want to be seen as 'not nice'.

This can result in sulking or some other unattractive behaviour because a nice person will not or cannot own up to their real problem - leaving their partner baffled.


agree here..this is sometimes called "mixed signals." However...once again ..men have no monopoly on this type of behavior.
To me ..alot of the nice guy syndrome is insecurity...which is not appealing to many women in excessive trying out for approval.

Am I to understand by your post that "their real problem" is not being able to express their true emotions??

If so in your provincialness...you miss out on a whole genre of people out here who do not often express thier emotions because they live, work, and occupy in tasks which require dicipline...not drama and emotions. These people do not wear their emotions on thier sleeve. Doing so can get themselves or someone else hurt or killed. It takes great perception/acumen to know and understand people like this beyond that to which so many of us think we deserve or are entitled by social structures/beliefs.


Nice people can also have a hidden, darker side that only manifests later on in a relationship when they can't keep up the niceness or they find themselves opposed or thwarted.


Once again ..males have no monopoly on this type of behavior leading to mixed signals. Some of us even call this drama ..or drama queen type behavior. Another word or expression of this is "High Maintenance."


If you find yourself with an out-and-out bxs txrd, there is always hope that he will see the error of his ways - after all his faults are so obvious. And a harsh exterior can hide a soft and loving interior.


Once again..males have no monopoly on this type of behavior.

The manner in which you flip this right off your sleeve or cuff..comes across precisely as it comes out of Cosmo...entitlement.

What so many men need to do is pull their heads out of the sports page, television and their oil shortage mentality, to think about what a woman really has to offer in the marketplace against the competition. Not what the males really think they deserve or want. They also need to think about what is missing from their lives and if this or that woman can fill this missing part against the competition...not once again what they deserve or want.
What people want or think they deserve is often not what they really need. The two are often not the same thing.
The sad truth out here is that much of the male social thinking is as shallow and dumb as the cosmo girl social thinking.

From my personal standpoint..I don't have much use for Nice women..for the very same reasons you state about men. I have a use for a real woman.

A real woman is not a Cosmo girl. Most of the Cosmo girls Ive met are the appearance of a woman..not a real woman.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Crumbs - I never meant to rattle anyone’s cage this much.

Since the thread was about ‘nice guys‘, I wrote what I thought of them. If it wasn’t too late I’d happily edit my post to read ‘nice people’ if it would help to get the bug out your butt.

What’s all this about Cosmopolitan? I don’t read it. And I never do quizzes in magazines because none of the answers are ever right for me. Do you think I’m some sort of feminist? Not so - I believe in equal blame for everyone.

Umm, primary ‘social expectations and beliefs’ - I’ve found it best not to have too many. I certainly don’t like it when people try to make me fit into a box so I try to be open-minded. That’s for any sort of relationship, not just a romantic one. I can still observe human nature though, and comment on it.

I can’t say what a person’s ‘real’ problems are but I think it is difficult for people to express their true emotions when they are intent on being nice.

I’ve had to look up ‘provincialness’- I think you mean ‘provincialism’. Let me tell you I’ve spent my entire adult life in the city and only moved to the country eight months ago. I don’t think I’ve had the chance to become provincial just yet……….

I am perfectly aware that there is a whole ‘genre’ of people who need to keep their emotions in check, particularly in their field of work. I’d hazard a guess that those same people could very well express themselves in their private lives. And I believe it can be done without being a drama queen. I’ve certainly never been one but I am currently sharing a house with one - it’s not pretty.

As far as entitlement in a relationship goes, I think the only thing I feel ‘entitled’ to is consideration. If a person can manage that I can enjoy all the little quirks to their personality and delight in their warmth, humour, kindness, honesty. And make allowances for their faults. I’m not perfect, why should they be? Without basic consideration though, I don’t see how a relationship stands a chance. And I expect high standards from myself when I am dealing with other people.

I don’t think I elaborated enough on my idea of bxstxrds - what I forgot to say was that you are sort of forewarned if you see the bad side of a person before you get involved with them and you can be pleasantly surprised by their behaviour if they care about you. It’s just tough sometimes to come up against a really awful side of someone who you thought was ‘nice’.

You’re right that men would do better to focus away from sports, tv and the oil shortage. And women could think more deeply about relationships too. I sincerely believe in equality in relationships. If both partners play to their strengths and always, always bear in mind that their partner is the person they sink or swim with, they should be in with a chance.

Relationships are difficult and need to be worked at, but if you’ve got one person whining that because they are nice they should be appreciated just for that it makes things more difficult.

Oh, and I like real people. Not have a use for, just like to be around.



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by berenike
 


berenike,

No you did not rattle my cage and there is no reason to edit your previous post.

I am glad to hear that you don't read Cosmopolitan magazine.

When you posted these lines....


The impression given is that being nice should be enough and if it isn't, then the woman must be at fault for not appreciating the niceness. Or even for daring to want more.

If you find yourself with an out-and-out bxs txrd, there is always hope that he will see the error of his ways - after all his faults are so obvious.


It is the pattern often used in those genre of magazines. By the number of posts and strategies I have seen this is not always obvious...either to men or women both.

I do on occasion purchase those genre of magazines and take the quizzes to see what some of the latest drivel is that is spoon fed to many women in consumption rates and entitlements. Not much seems to change in the basic formats.

However to be fair about it..I have found this genre of Maxim magazine and others to be precisely the same ...format for males. It is a male Cosmo.
One of the other males brought one to work and I asked if I could read it. I quickly deduced it as a male entitlement magazine out of the same stable as Cosmo. Buy this or that or be no one...do this or that, think this or that or be no one. I found the appeal awful. Same as Cosmo.

I do have certain expectations and beliefs and I am not open minded about it.

The most difficult commodity I find to get or acquire from a woman is Peace. Piece is very easy to acquire from most women. Peace requires much more commitment...children or not. Piece does not require that much commitment from most women. I am not open minded about this.

The sad truth about many of the men I know is that they will settle for Piece and the "appearance of commitment " and never get Peace in their lives...much less will they know the difference. Not a good trade off as a career.

So many of the men I know ..think they have really done something if they get Piece...I don't think so.

At work..I watch these guys in the crew to which I am temporarily assigned. They raise the big shop roll up doors at quitting time on day shift so that they can watch the women leave work. Many more women have been hired in the last five to seven years than previously. It is like a "pass and review." But the interesting thing is the looks on the faces of these guys. I don't believe they even think about it....just react to a stimulus. It is obvious to me...all other brainwave activity flatlines. It is the same when they read the sports page..or someone brings in the swimsuit edition of Sports Illustrated...no other brainwave activity going on.

Primary Social expectations...I have found that most women have these at some level or another and the assumption is made that I have a responsibility and obligation to cede many of mine to hers.
I don't care for it when I am expected or taken for granted by social roles that I fit into such a box without certain considerations..like..Peace and the commitments needed to bring it about.

No ..drama queens are not pretty. I've been around more than enough of them..even before I fully understood the concept. Ironically I find many more male drama queens now days than I recall in times past. I don't like them around me at work. To high maintenance. Same thing with such women in my private life. I prefer women who are secure in themselves.

I am not into "Nice people" I happen to think the concept is very overrated.
People are people and come in all types and varieties. It is up to us to develop the tools to weed them out. To weed out the wildlife so to speak.

I never watch sports...with the exception of the occasional fishing program. Television...the occasional movie..Discovery or History channel...but most of it is dreck...especially the news formats. I am just as well off to get my news and info from this computer.

Ahh...your living with a drama queen.....wow!!

As to having a use for people..I refer to that in a social context. The social belief/expectations. By this I mean ..not a high maintenance drama queen. But something useful ..having value in the social context of a relationship.
Outside of that I am pretty much a private individual..not that social.
That is why I like the back shifts..particularly graveyard shift....Not much of a daywalker here.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


So much I agree with. I've made some comments on another thread about what I think of the media - not impressed.

I like a bit of peace and quiet and I'll quite happily grant it to anyone else.

Unless they upset me - see aforementioned drama queen. Had to have a few words with him the other night, he'd spent over a week letting me clear and cut-back a quarter acre garden with a pair of shears, a rake and a yardbrush while he moped in his room listening to music. My other h/m was a star - even though he was ill he managed to 'tip' barrowloads of debris for me.

Peace

berenike



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by berenike
 


berenike,


Unless they upset me - see aforementioned drama queen. Had to have a few words with him the other night, he'd spent over a week letting me clear and cut-back a quarter acre garden with a pair of shears, a rake and a yardbrush while he moped in his room listening to music.


What a wuss...

I must tell you ..I hate yard work...and working in the garden...and I have a tiller and riding lawn mower...all kinds of power tools.

What makes this work bearable for me is a invention called a Sony Walkman. No reason a person cannot put their favorite music ...etc on this format and roll up thier sleeves to help.

What a light weight.

Hope you got your point across to them and made it stick!!

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 12:04 PM
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I only date nice guys. However, since I am not with the first nice guy I ever dated, I also break up with them.

(Or they break up with me depending)

I think the sad fact is sometimes things just dont work out. Nice guy or not. There are tons of reasons for that. The chemistry fails, over time you grow apart, you discover the things you initially liked are now maddening, you feel suffocated by the relationship, etc. Sometimes, you blame it on the guy, or things like that but the truth of the matter is you just arent ready to be in a relationship.

I do agree with the posters who said that if you are TRYING to be nice, there is a problem. Nothing turns me off faster than someone TRYING to impress me, or be something. Not because I want to date a guy who doesnt like me, like another poster said, but because if someone is trying to convince me of something it feels dishonest. And, it tends to feel a bit needy too. Most people dont want to date someone too needy, male or female. Once you are in a relationship with them, the neediness doesnt go away, it gets worse generally speaking, and then you are always having to prove to them they matter. It sucks.


Just be yourself. You arent everyone's cup of tea. No one is. And, there is nothing wrong with being alone for a while. When it happens it happens. Also, make sure you are being honest with yourself about if you are reaching too far out of your "looks zone." A lot of the guys I meet that are chronically dissatisfied with their dating odds are very average guys chasing totally hot women. Like attracts like. That goes for women too, but my personal observation is that men tend to reach waaaay too high where women are a little more realistic.



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


We're having a beautiful autumn, not too hot and just cool enough so that a bit of hard work warms you up.

The air is so fresh and the light is sort of golden from the colour of the trees so it invites you to stay out there.

I'm getting fit and strong, so apart from the principle of the thing, I think I'm winning.

berenike



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by SuperSlovak
 


Thanks for the laugh. I guess one could say that this is one of life's more fundamental questions...perhaps it had something to do with your BO? (just kidding)!!

ColoradoJens



posted on Oct, 25 2008 @ 02:21 AM
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Quote by Riley:



Utter nonsense. Women are not fools and know very well that the "nice guy routine" is just another routine. I mean you "nice guys" have even admitted the niceness is an act. Next you'll be whining about how women don't give pity sex for when you start crying like little boys. [youtube even has a special club for these guys.. and it's not even satire! ] Desperate, manipulative and pathetic is not sexy.. and it certainly isn't nice.



Now that's funny.................. And probably true?



posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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If youre too nice, guaranteed they will leave you. You could be nice still, but stand your own grown, dont be a slave to them.



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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Hmm, I wouldn't describe myself as 'nice', I'd describe myself as 'Unatractively nice to the opposite sex'. But not to the same sex, for some reason. ??? But ah well, I'm not going to dwell on that because I know that one day I'll get to be someone's second husband. I hope at least...

Rama.D Filofax on love



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 12:58 PM
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Ya know I never understood this either to be honest. My sister always dated the guys that treated her like crap, and when she got a good guy, she would dump him within weeks.

To all the nice guys, do not give up!



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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I've had some experience in the Romance game and from my research I have found that most women want a man that can make them laugh; Not afraid to get a little trashy and knowing how to play the guitar doesn't hurt.

Basically it's about being comfortable in your own skin. Not overly concerned with what other people think of you and being sincere.

If you can fake sincerity, you got it made.





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