Bodies strapped to seats on AA77, Pentagon?

Originally posted by SPreston
Perhaps so, but I worked outside at Tampa Airport years ago, and it got so I never even noticed the jet fuel smell or jet exhaust, unless I drove or walked behind an aircraft spooling up in the distance. I spent a lot of time over at the fuel facility on the northeast side of the airport, and I hardly ever noticed the strong smell. People I brought with me would notice the smell right away. When smells become common place, a person often ignores them.

Possible. But, like I said, I've only been working there for 4 months and I didn't notice the difference when I started.

But, I see what you mean about getting used to smells. I worked on a project at a water sanitation plant for a good 6 months before. All day long. I wouldn't notice the smell until I got home and took my clothes off to shower. The smell was awful.

[edit on 10/26/2008 by Griff]

[edit on 10/26/2008 by Griff]

Originally posted by tezzajw
By the way, pinch, how's your search for proof going to support your claim that the FBI have all the parts and serial numbers and are not releasing them? I'm still waiting. It's got to be well over a week now.

I don't *have* to search for what you are asking. The FBI's page on their 9/11 investigation (links below) states very clearly that "AA77" crashed at the Pentagon. The NTSB, further, states that:

Accident occurred Tuesday, September 11, 2001 in Arlington, VA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 3/7/2006
Aircraft: Boeing 757-200, registration: N644AA
Injuries: 64 Fatal.

In addition, the NTSB report states:

The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The Safety Board provided requested technical assistance to the FBI, and any material generated by the NTSB is under the control of the FBI. The Safety Board does not plan to issue a report or open a public docket.

That means the FBI is in charge of the investigation of this crash. You can see here and here and here references by the FBI to the aircraft flight number, which was linked to the aircraft registration by the NTSB (above).

I would have expected a Google Ranger Expert such as yourself would have been able to find that information.

You can go ahead an hand-wave all you want and work your Junior Jedi Mind Tricks on the others like Preston and Griff and whomever else here if you like, but I prefer to let professionals do their thing.

The FBI is not in the business of, in the midst of an ongoing investigation, having to convince disbelievers of the facts of a case. That is what indictments are for, and indictments are issued when a particular part of an investigation is complete. Why *should* the FBI release information on parts and serial numbers in an ongoing investigation? To convince *you*? To convince Preston? To convince Captain Bob?? Laugh my ASS off. You wouldn't believe it anyhow.

On April 6, 2002, a Piper Cherokee 180 crashed and burned in the Sequoia National Park in California, killing its pilot and 3 passengers. Since you obviously believe that THAT crash never happened, because there are a) no photos of the deceased, strapped into seats or not and b) no reports of the serial numbers and engine/plane parts that match aircraft registration number N7839W, I don't know how we could discuss ANY aircraft accident.

I'm quite happy to sit back and let you keep waiting while the FBI does their thing and I'll take great mirth in watching you Troofers and "Citizen Investigators" howl and rage at the blowing winds of perceived injustice. Its more fun that way.

As far as how all this relates to "bodies strapped to seats", first off the discussion points of a thread do migrate to other issues at times (wild, I know, but a fact of online discussion boards) and second, there was eye-witness testimony from rescue/recovery workers finding such. It is your prerogative to either take them for their word or exhibit your amazing knowledge and erudite expertise that there "weren't" bodies found strapped to seats and you can call them a liar. How you would know that, is, you know, interesting because, you know, YOU WEREN'T THERE, but that's what makes this country so great! Anyone can be as dumb as they want on whatever topic they want!

I'll ask these questions again, Preston, since you didn't answer them the first time:

Originally posted by pinch

Funny, Preston. Why would your Star Witness to "no jet fuel" and "no airplane" tell the Washington Post in an interview on Sept 11, 2004 that:

If she drives past an airport and smells jet fuel, it all comes back.

Why would the simple sense of smelling jet fuel make "it all [come] back" if there was no jet fuel?

Do go take a look at that article, please. It also talks about the experience of Valecia "Chee Chee" Parker, a civilian employee in Army personnel management. After the impact, she was trapped under "a jumble of desks". Parker was soaked with jet fuel that made her legs feel on fire.

"Soaked with jet fuel"

A bit farther on in the article:

Everyday things can trigger their memories. The scream of sirens. A plane low overhead. The fusty odor of wet drywall. And suddenly, said April Gallop, "it's like you're there all over again."

Why would a "plane low overhead" trigger a memory if there was no airplane?

Originally posted by tezzajw
And this is supposed to prove exactly what? Can you tell me why there should be a heavy smell of jet fuel in the air and how that relates to bodies being found strapped in airline seats?

This is supposed to prove what? You must be new to this online discussion thing.

First off, the "why" question. An airplane crashed there and there *should* be a heavy smell of jet fuel, as there is when most any aircraft crashes. Its just part of the crash scene. I suppose I shouldn't expect you to know that, though, but you do now.

Second off, Preston, in the post or two before mine, talked about how his Star Witness claims there was no jet fuel at the Pentagon. My post refuted that, in a number of ways. My own particular personal experience at the crash scene included the heavy smell of jet fuel, which adds up to anectdotal evidence that there WAS jet fuel on the scene.

The comment that I have been around jet fuel since I was a child, I suppose, needs a bit of clarification. By "child" I meant since I was approximately 5 years old when we lived on-base at Naval Air Station Meridian in Mississippi and visited my dad quite often in the hangars and on the flight line. I was 9 years old and the location was Naval Air Station Lemoore in California. I was 12 through 16 years old at Norfolk Naval Air Station and Oceana Naval Air Station in Virginia. later, when I was 26, I began working in, on and around air stations for the following 10 years, including Naval Air Stations at Pensacola and Oceana, the Grumman production and test facility in Calverton NY, as well as mobile air stations such as aircraft carriers. I know the smell of jet fuel. I have been at the scene of aircraft mishaps before, and know what the smell of jet fuel there, as well. The thick smell of jet fuel at the Pentagon is yet another piece of physical evidence that an aircraft crashed there. Preston will go his merry way and do what his CIT and PffT leaders have taught him, and that is hammer on...harangue....bet all your cash on...their ONE (1) witness who says there was no jet fuel there - a diametrically opposite claim to what *everyone else* has said.

posted by pinch
I'll ask these questions again, Preston, since you didn't answer them the first time:

posted by pinch
Funny, Preston. Why would your Star Witness to "no jet fuel" and "no airplane" tell the Washington Post in an interview on Sept 11, 2004 that:

If she drives past an airport and smells jet fuel, it all comes back.

Why would the simple sense of smelling jet fuel make "it all [come] back" if there was no jet fuel?

Everyday things can trigger their memories. The scream of sirens. A plane low overhead. The fusty odor of wet drywall. And suddenly, said April Gallop, "it's like you're there all over again."

Why would a "plane low overhead" trigger a memory if there was no airplane?

Well gee willikers pinch, we have been listening to the disinformation and outright lies from you guys and the 9-11 perps and the Mainstream Media mouth pieces for over seven years now. So whenever April Gallup smells jet fuel, how can she not think about the LIES of the official fairy tale?

April Gallup knows for a fact that she saw and smelled NO JET FUEL at the Pentagon on 9-11. Nor was she nor Elijah nor the other people she helped rescue soaked in jet fuel. Nor was jet fuel burning in her office area within 35-45 feet of the alleged impact hole.

Whenever she sees a low plane, how can she not think about the LIES of the official fairy tale?

April Gallup knows for a fact that she saw NO AIRCRAFT at the Pentagon on 9-11. No passengers strapped in seats. No baggage. No engines. No landing gear. No aircraft aluminum which should have sliced her and Elijah to ribbons at 535 mph.

Are you calling April Gallup a liar pinch? She seems like a smart and decent lady to me.
A very brave patriotic lady too.

Guns and Butter broadcast with Dave von Kleist interviewing April Gallup. There was an explosion and she crawled out from E-Ring through the hole onto the Pentagon lawn. She saw no jet fuel and nobody burned with jet fuel. She and her baby boy were about 35-45 feet from the alleged impact hole and no jet fuel was splashed on them. What happened to the huge infernos and fuel-air explosions inside which allegedly incinerated all the aircraft parts and engines and wheel hubs and baggage and seats?

Guns and Butter April Gallup - audio live testimony

Whenever she picks up her little boy, how can she not think about the LIES of the official fairy tale?

They were supposed to die in there. The pre-planted explosions were supposed to kill them. Two more victims for the 9-11 perps. That is why she got little Elijah through security the morning of 9-11 so easily. The psyops mission was on and security was under orders to pass them through; against all ordinary regulations. That is why April was surprised to be allowed to take her baby to her office instead of day care.

Everytime April Gallup sees the disinformation from people like you, she remembers that she was ordered to LIE about what she saw on 9-11, by the Defense Department and she REFUSED TO LIE.

But you are a LIFER aren't you pinch and you WILL and you DO LIE for them. Correct?






[edit on 10/26/08 by SPreston]

Originally posted by SPreston


Well gee willikers pinch, we have been listening to the disinformation and outright lies from you guys and the 9-11 perps and the Mainstream Media mouth pieces for over seven years now. So whenever April Gallup smells jet fuel, how can she not think about the LIES of the official fairy tale?

Disinformation

Perps

Lies

mainstream media mouth pieces

Official Fairy tale.

That your response Preston? Not the we should expect anything else from you. Since you IGNORED the witnesses that were covered and or smell jet fuel. All you can do is hold on to your cherry picked witness that didn't smell jet fuel?

Are you calling April Gallup a liar pinch? She seems like a smart and decent lady to me.
A very brave patriotic lady too.

But if she smelled the jet fuel like many others did... what would that make her? A disinfo agent? A shill? She is your cherry picked witness.

Originally posted by pinch
I don't *have* to search for what you are asking. The FBI's page on their 9/11 investigation (links below) states very clearly that "AA77" crashed at the Pentagon.

pinch, I asked you to prove your claim and all you did was rant at me.

You made a claim that the FBI has all of the parts and serial numbers. Instead of proving this to me, you linked to the NTSB page, which states the following...

The Safety Board did not determine the probable cause

See, pinch? The NTSB admit that they don't know what happened either. Furthermore, the NTSB did not state that the FBI have all the parts and serial numbers.

Then, pinch, you linked to the FBI website...

9:39 a.m. Crashed into Pentagon

The Commission Report lists an official crash time of 9.37.46am. Obviously, the FBI must be referring to a different plane crash, as their crash time is different.

Where on that FBI page does it state that they have the parts and serial numbers for the alleged plane? It DOESN'T. Nowhere is it stated that the FBI is in possession of the parts and serial numbers LIKE YOU CLAIMED.

pinch, you have not provided any proof to support your claim that the FBI has the parts and serial numbers in its possession. The rest of your post was ranting and hand waving - techniques which I ignore.

Try again, pinch, you made the claim, it's your's to prove.

[edit on 26-10-2008 by tezzajw]

Originally posted by SPreston
April Gallup knows for a fact that she saw and smelled NO JET FUEL at the Pentagon on 9-11.

Just out of curiosity, Preston, do you have anyone else you can pony up who states they saw nor smelled ant jet fuel? Anyone? Bueller?

Or is April Gallop your only "no jet fuel" witness - who was there?

reply to post by pinch


Yes! Pinch is calling April Gallup a liar, aint that right pinch, pinch knows for fact she is a liar! Tell us pinch, how you know she is a liar.
I know you got the proof!

reply to post by cashlink


Cash... since Preston can only come up with one witness that specifically said that she did not smell fuel and I presented 15 that did....what is your opinion as to the existence of jet fuel at the Pentagon?

Originally posted by cashlink
Yes! Pinch is calling April Gallup a liar, aint that right pinch, pinch knows for fact she is a liar! Tell us pinch, how you know she is a liar.
I know you got the proof!

No, not calling her a "liar". I'm saying she was mistaken.

To add or piggy back on TY's thunder, here is "proof" via eyewitness accounts that there was, indeed, jet fuel at the Pentagon:

Lieutenant Colonel Brian Birdwell said: “You go from a well-lit hallway to jet fuel-soaked darkness and, by the way, you’re burning to death,”

LT Kevin Shaeffer, Navy Command Center said: “But I had severe lung damage as well, in addition to my burns, as I ingested the jet fuel as flight 77 exploded into my space at Navy Command Center. So I've been really working through those issues and trying to get back into shape, both physically with my burns, but also with my lungs.”

Pentagon Police Officer Isaac Ho'opi'i: Rushing to the site of the crash, the 38-year-old Ho'opi'i said he began pulling injured people from the building and carrying them out to a grassy area outside. He ran into a pitch dark corridor near the impact area where electrical wiring dangled in the hallway and smoke from burning jet fuel surged.

The below accounts came from this web page:

Arthur Rosati said: "I ran down the hallway and there was smoke everywhere. You could smell the jet fuel, it was unbearable,"

Rob Schickler said: "There was a hole in the building, and you could smell it in the air. It's a beautiful day, but you can smell the burning concrete and burning jet fuel."

Ron Turner, the Navy's deputy chief information officer, said: "There was a huge fireball," he said, "followed by the [usual] black cloud of a fuel burn."
Turner, a helicopter pilot during the Vietnam War, said the explosion was just the same as explosions of jet fighters and helicopters during his tour of duty in 1971. "It reminded me of being back in Vietnam," he said, "watching Tan Son Nhut Air Base burn."

Matt Hahr, Kirlin's senior project manager at the Pentagon, recounts the story of one of his employees: "He was thrown about 80 ft down the hall through the air. As he was traveling through the air, he says the ceiling was coming down from the concussion. He got thrown into a closet, the door slammed shut and the fireball went past him," recounts Hahr. "Jet fuel was on him and it irritated his eyes, but he didn't get burned. . . ."

Michael DiPaula said: 'It sounded like a missile,' Buried in debris and covered with airplane fuel, he was briefly listed by authorities as missing, but eventually crawled from the flaming debris and the shroud of black smoke unscathed.

Jerry Henson said: Fires were burning closer as deposits of jet fuel ignited. "You could hear them lighting off," Henson said. "They would go `poof,' kind of like when you light a furnace. You could hear these getting closer."

Will Jarvis: From time spent on military aircraft as part of his job at the Pentagon, Will Jarvis . . . knows what aviation fuel smells like. That smell was his only clue that a plane had crashed into the Pentagon, where he works as an operations research analyst for the Office of the Secretary of Defense.

Rep. Mark Steven Kirk (R-Ill.), a Naval Reserve intelligence officer said: “The first thing you smell is the burning. And then you can smell the aviation fuel. And then you can smell this sickly, rotten-meat smell”.

Dr. Thom Mayer: At one point, he went into the charred opening, to check on the safety of workers there "There was jet fuel all over the place. It was very smoky, and it was difficult to breathe, even with a respirator"

Daniel Pfeilstucker, Jr.: “All I know is that the blast must have pushed open the steel door to the closet." The fire sprinklers came on as the temperature shot up. Then he smelled jet fuel and smoke.

John Yates: He could not breathe. He could not see. The room was ablaze around him. His glasses remained on his face. They were smeared with something -- unburned jet fuel, which Yates mistook for blood. He carefully took them off, folded them, and slipped them into his shirt pocket, then stumbled toward the big room's interior.

I'm not naive enough to think this will convince anyone that jet fuel was present or that it was actually there. I'm sure the excuses will be that the Evil Bush Cabal moved tanks and containers of Jet-A into the unoccupied offices, hence the "jet fuel" references. Its just the usual hand-waving and mental tap-dancing that happens whenever you Troofers are faced with unimpeachable evidence.

posted by SPreston
Well gee willikers pinch, we have been listening to the disinformation and outright lies from you guys and the 9-11 perps and the Mainstream Media mouth pieces for over seven years now. So whenever April Gallup smells jet fuel, how can she not think about the LIES of the official fairy tale?

posted by ThroatYogurt
Disinformation
Perps
Lies
mainstream media mouth pieces
Official Fairy tale.
That your response Preston? Not the we should expect anything else from you. Since you IGNORED the witnesses that were covered and or smell jet fuel. All you can do is hold on to your cherry picked witness that didn't smell jet fuel?

Those witnesses have not been verified and re-interviewed. They may not even exist in reality. Or they may have been ordered to LIE by the Defense Department and do not have to bravery and personal integrity of April Gallup.

Since the decoy aircraft has been proven over the Naval Annex and North of the Citgo by verified living eyewitnesses with personal integrity, then there couldn't possibly have been an aircraft impacting the Pentagon and depositing JET FUEL all over April Gallup and little Elijah. The flight path through the 247 lb light poles and pull-up at the bottom of the hill is IMPOSSIBLE. The aircraft can't even get there from ONA and NOC.

Hey pinch, what exactly do you think April is lying about? Do you think she is lying about not getting all burned up by all that JET FUEL burning all over her office in the Purdue Sim? She doesn't look all burned up to me, but what do I know? I've never been all burned up. Have you pinch?

Do you think April is lying about being in the Pentagon 1st floor area during the explosion(s)? Or are you calling April a liar about the Pentagon Renovation Team mapping out that April was 35-45 feet from the Place of Impact? How do you explain April and little Elijah escaping all that alleged massive destruction of a 90 ton aircraft filled with fuel crashing through her office at 535 mph? Come on pinch, give us your personal wild version of the official fantasy tale.

And how come the nose cone, um..... NO the landing gear, um..... NO a jet engine, um..... NO a massive ball of energy ..... blasted through the three rings and created the Exit Hole, when there was NO sign of any of that out in the A&E Drive nor on the B Ring wall? Got another wild explanation for that incongruity pinch ...... um..... ThroatYogurt?

posted by SPreston
Are you calling April Gallup a liar pinch? She seems like a smart and decent lady to me.
A very brave patriotic lady too.

posted by ThroatYogurt
But if she smelled the jet fuel like many others did... what would that make her? A disinfo agent? A shill? She is your cherry picked witness.

What can I say? She refused to LIE for the Defense Department. Unlike you, I like people who refuse to LIE. I kinda like those honest guys up at Arlington Cemetery too ..... and those guys at the Citgo ..... and I really like Edward Paik and Steve Chaconas. They just want to tell the truth and get on with their ordinary lives, working for a living. Do you think they are all LYING too pinch ...... um..... ThroatYogurt?

I'll tell you who LIES. Those who have a lot to gain and people who are trapped under their thumb, afraid to tell the TRUTH, will LIE. Cui Bono?. Who benefits? from all this death and destruction? Not the ANC guys. Not the Citgo guys. Who benefits? from the murders of 3000 innocent victims. Cui Bono? Not Mr Paik. Not Mr Chaconas. Not April Gallup. Not little Elijah. Here's a hint on Who benefits?.





[edit on 10/26/08 by SPreston]

As someone who has actually been at jet crash site can tell you that I
smelled JET FUEL! Smelled it on arrival and afterwards while searching
debris to mark body parts for coroner to recover.

Notice this quote from NY TIMES

The parts of the plane were scattered beneath trees, shrubs and rocks, and the smell of jet fuel permeated the air.

"smell of jet fuel permeated the air"....

query.nytimes.com...

So what is the problem? Aircraft crash scene = smell of jet fuel

reply to post by thedman


No reconstruction + no S/N confirmation + no evidence of a 757 = not a plane crash site.

math is fun.

posted by thedman
So what is the problem? Aircraft crash scene = smell of jet fuel

Don't you need an aircraft for an aircraft crash scene first?

Don't you need 90 tons of aircraft debris from a 90 ton aircraft?

Don't you need two turbofan engines from a 757?

Don't you need two heavy steel main landing gear from a 757?

Don't you need a heavy steel nose landing gear from a 757?

Don't you need 10 tires from a 757 instead of 1?

Don't you need 10 steel wheels from a 757 instead of 1?

Don't you need 2 wings from a 757?

Don't you need a big tail section from a 757?

Don't you need about 235 seats from a 757?

Don't you need a whole bunch of people strapped in those seats?

Don't you need a whole bunch of baggage from a 757?

Don't you need aircraft crash investigator serial numbers for all that stuff?

Don't tell me all of that stuff above MELTED.

April Gallup and little Elijah were right in the path of that imaginary 90 tons of 535 mph stuff and they didn't MELT.



[edit on 10/26/08 by SPreston]

Maybe should read the book "FIREFIGHT" where authors interviewed over
100 members of Arlington FD who fought the fires and perform search/
recovery at the Pentagon.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1_s9_rk?ie=UTF8&s=books&s9r=8a585b43187966e8011acfaa62 043c4d&itemPosition=1&qid=1225077804&sr=1-1

Read accounts of the firemen as they stumbled over aircraft debris
dragging their hoses and equipment into the Pentagon to fight the fires

Oh I forgot the firemen are all shills in on the conspiracy.....

reply to post by pinch


(No, not calling her a "liar". I'm saying she was mistaken.)

Wow! You know “you” cannot really call her a lair, because you have no way to refute her statement. You are not Dr Sigismund Shlomo Freud, so stop psychoanalysing wittness that you have never spoken with, or never met!

T o say April Gallup is “mistaken” is an outright lie.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt


That your response Preston? Not the we should expect anything else from you. Since you IGNORED the witnesses that were covered and or smell jet fuel. All you can do is hold on to your cherry picked witness that didn't smell jet fuel?

Either every eyewitness account is correct or none of them. Mr. Yogurt, may I ask what makes your cherry picked witnesses any more or less credible than anyone else's?

reply to post by pinch


“You go from a well-lit hallway to jet fuel-soaked darkness and, by the way, you’re burning to death,” is how Lieutenant Colonel Brian Birdwell describes what happened to him when a jet slammed into the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001.

His “OPINION” only! I believe he was burnt, but if he was soaked in jet fuel, I do not think he would be alive, do you?
Also, he might have been told to say that statement since he was a Pentagon member. And who really knows, Lieutenant Colonel Brian Birdwell may very well been rewarded.

But you do not know that, and you can not prove it!

reply to post by pinch


These are witness statements only!
If you want to believe, their statements then you have to believe eyewitness statement that said NO AIRPLANE HIT THE PENTAGON!






[edit on 10/27/2008 by cashlink]