amazing - so when it happens to mccain - its torture - but when the USA do it to everyone else is `war on terrorism`

total bollcoks.

Is nothing out of bounds anymore? They guy did fight for our country, was wounded and captured. Feeding on an article like this just makes me sick at heart. What a world. BTW my opinion is not slanted by political affiliation, it's just wrong that's all.

Yet another garbage thread.

Vietnamese prison officials were denying prisoner torture back in 1967, and they still are today, you're 40 years out of date. Fyi - torturers are rarely forthcoming about their crimes.

A couple of other minor points.

Lt. McCain who was completely immobilized when he was dragged half alive from Truc Bach lake, had his shoulder crushed with a rifle butt, and was bayoneted in the groin "for fun". He still bears the scar.

He was denied medical treatment until the delightful vietnamese discovered that he had a famous military father and then he was given enough treatment to just barely keep him alive.

His cell mates in the second jail he was transferred to are on record as saying they expected him to die within a week. McCain was then beaten on a regular 2 hourly cycle when finally he broke and agreed to make an anti-american statement, he then tried to commit suicide but was stopped by his guards. All this has been verified by his cell mates and never once questioned by anyone except those who did the torturing, but that's enough to give it some purchase with the mindless in this site.

While the Vietnamese have consistently denied these allegations for over 40 years, every prisoner, not just McCain has given details of the torture they were forced to endure, so I suppose they must all be liars.

Whatever you think of McCain's politics, he served with incredible honor and bravery in Vietnam, and to attempt to mud sling that is the work of vile and ignorant scum.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by Retseh]

You have to note where the OP is from, honor is an alien concept in that part of the world. Anything vaguely anti-american will suffice, they are obsessed with us.

Could not agree more.

McCain is a hero and a man worthy of all respect and admiration. This thread is a disgrace and dishonours not only McCain but most patriots that have endured torture in prison.

Shame on the OP. This is pure defamation



Source

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Camilo1

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Ignorance is bliss for you really

the OP in his own words was asking a question; who do we believe?

apparantly your education is lacking in understanding

Your petty childlike insults against Camilo aside, here is what the OP actually said:



So McCain "gets into the gutter" and is "a liar" while an NVA prison guard associated with torture is just a man "with little to gain".

If you can't see through the vile persona of yet another cynical anti-American Brit troll then it is you who needs an education at least in terms of the British mentality.

A significant number of British nationals are now just as opposed to the happiness and success of the United States as any extremist organization, and they will dredge up any piece of anti-American garbage and peddle it as the truth, but we have come to expect that, and even tolerate it, since they are capable of little more than cynicism these days.

But when one of those repugnant individuals dares to impune the war record of a bona fide decorated American hero, and calls him a liar who is happy to go into the gutter, they cross the line.

reply to post by Retseh

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child like insults - gosh , how little you know - the OP was asking a question and yet YOU detract from the conversation; how petty.

Our topic:

McCain was not tortured, PoW guard claims

Let's please focus on that and leave the personal commentary for someplace other than ATS.

Thanks.



[edit on 10/17/2008 by Majic]

I completely agree, but when you allow the OP to call a war hero a liar who is happy to descend into the gutter, it's already personal. It should have been stopped then.

Habeas Corpus


It was, is and ever shall be appropriate for ATS members to question the credibility of any public figure.

Likewise, it is a core value of ATS that any member can disagree with any other member about anything, provided such disagreement is expressed in accordance with the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use.

Unless you are John McCain or Nguyen Tien Tran, you have no logical basis for taking personal offense to opinions regarding the credibility of either.

Rather, if you feel strongly about the issue either way and wish to opine on it, you are quite welcome to do so -- provided you respect the rights of other members to do likewise, whether you agree with them or not.

That is not negotiable. Please Stay On Topic.

Isn't this guy saying he didn't do it after it's a known fact they did torture McCain.
About the same as a rapist 30 years later confronting the woman on public tv and saying ..you enjoyed every moment of my stay with you!!

Just saying.

Like say if it was you and the person that did torture you wait's for you too run for president...then says this after this many year's...

complete democrat bs ..is all this is...will the obama poop slinging campaign or it's support's every stop trying discredit Mcain!!!!!

to put doubt's in a Americans minds.
all this is.

[edit on 17-10-2008 by beforetime]

Sorry Budski, but just on your last post you said this was all about introducing Gitmo and what not. So what is it, was this all to bring up a comparison to Gitmo, or was it to say that John McCain is a liar?

I think you need to make up your mind what you are trying to accomplish here.

Yes because it is simply impossible that the guy who was in charge of the "jail", as they like to call it, would ever lie and say that they didn't do anything wrong. Just as I am sure it is a completely likely story that with all the POW's that were there during the war, and afterwards for that matter, that this guy remembers one of hundreds of prisoners who were tortured and remembers him clearly enough to say that McCain was never tortured. I'm sure that if it had happened then the guy who was running the show in that particular "jail" would be the first to come forward and say "Gee we're sorry we tortured you. Our bad! Won't happen again!" I'm sure that is exactly what he would do.

As we all know, it is completely impossible that this guy was paid a substantial sum of cash to try to discredit what McCain and others have said about what they experienced while there. It's impossible that this guy would lie about torturing, or ordering the torture, of anyone whether it was McCain or some other POW.

Yes I'm sure it was exactly as this guy portrays it.

Did you by chance see this part of the article?



My emphasis. Look at that, a quote by one of McCain's cellmate's who says McCain was tortured. I'm sure he is lying too right?



Yes because it's not the torturers fault they tortured the POW's. Just as it's not the abuser's fault they beat their spouse, child, or parent, nor is it the rapist's fault they forced sexual activity on another person.

reply to post by ZindoDoone

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Of course that post was sarcasm. The truly sad thing is that some people actually thought it was serious.

McCain was going to be released, but refused when the commander of the camp would not release those captured before McCain. McCain spent five more years there. Also, the way McCain holds his shoulders is because of the torture he endured. This is just another Obama smear.

at least someone else see's obama's tactics at work

I can't see how this is a big deal to people, other than of course that he's been lying to everyone this whole time. But I don't think the truth is black or white. The guard couldn't have known about every thing that happened. But there was us soldiers with McCain that have stated that he wasn't tortured very much, if at all.

How much worse would HE treat a Vietnamese who flew over his house, and bombed his friends and families?

At any rate, am I the ONLY person that would consider voting for him EVEN LESS if he actually HAS been tortured?

What kind of country are we living in where it's going to make a better President, if they are a total mental nutbag hellbent on hate and revenge and war mongering? (see his comments on the Vietnamese, which he repeatedly refuses to take back his words)

What a great source!
You will believe anything.

You arenjust to funny

are you new here?

This is what liberals do, they talk about haters and bigots and intolerance until they are blue in the face and the second they start discussing a conservative or republican they become haters and bigots and intolerants.
But it's OK then because they are talking about conservatives or republicans who we all know, are not real people, they are evil haters and bigots and intolerants. They throw logic, decency and common sense out the window, then demand all of that whenever the focus shifts to them. Get it?

It's the ultimate hypocrasy.

The most vile venomous hared comes from LIBERAL websites.

You don't need me to tell you, I don't want to be accused of lies.. just take a look at the comments of any anti-conservative/republican/McCain/Bush article on Digg/reddit/Kos/Huff/ATS and you'll see for yourself.

For every ignorant southern "republican" nutjob talking about Obama being a "terrorist", there are 5 liberals callng McCain a puppy killing fake veteran.