McCain was not tortured, PoW guard claims, page 3

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reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 01:32 PM by Anonymous ATS

Having read the stories of people who endured "reconditioning" and "interrogation" at the Hanoi Hilton I can tell you that whatever John McCain went through there was way more serious that just waterboarding and standing on a crate with a bag over his head.

They may have gone lighter on him that they would have others because his father, an admiral in the US Navy had been fighting against the Imperial Japanese in WW2 and the Vietamese were showing that much gratitude to him...or they simply wanted to keep him alive as a bargaining chip for later propaganda use.

None the less the descriptions from his fellow POWs make it all too clear that he was tortured and abused...even to the point where he did in fact reach his breaking point and tell them things (by his OWN admission).

No matter your own political affiliation, you have to recognize that the man endured and survived what had to be the most brutal experience of his life. Imprisonment, torture and constant psychosocial conditioning intended to break him down so.

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 02:36 PM by azzllin

This news article is way more important than you think IMO.

I can see reporters from all over the planet, trying everything they can to find back up sources for what this fella is saying, I can see dozens of ex guards clambering for some money to tell their version of this story,.

I am pretty sure this is a load of BS this guy is sprouting, thats just my opinion, I've seen the stare McCain has, and he has seen a ton of pain, take a look for yourself, that guy suffered.

This can open a small can of worms if someone plays this right, like paparatzi looking for Angelina Jolie and her new Baby, maybe even a History Channel documentary coming up, maybe even a series.

Damn forgot to copyright!!

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 02:46 PM by Oldtimer2

Thats pretty funny,wouldn't that be like the Nazi prison guards saying that they saw no atrocitys to the Jewish prisoners,that they were well treated,I think thats the wrong person to get any true facts from

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 02:52 PM by PGTWEED

reply to post by Oldtimer2

or the Japanese guards at Civilan and POW Camps during WW2. 'Three Came Home' by Agnes Newton Keith details the lives of Western Women held in Civilian Internment camps in Borneo.

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 03:11 PM by nh_ee

There are a quite a few vets that would beg to differ on McCains heroism.
According to them , McCain, the prince as he was called had a secret code name called Songbird due to his willingness to talk.

McCain also later passed a bill that would by classifying Vietnam POW information would never potentially release pow information that might aid in locating many missing POWs. Why would a former POW do such a thing ?

Why ? Because John McCain had something to hide. This apparently was only done in order to protect his own a## while having provided sensitive information pertaining to how the US was defeating the Soviets SAM2 anti aircraft missiles.

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 03:33 PM by budski

reply to post by nh_ee

Starred.

I think I even made the same point myself.

The pain that McCain suffers from, may indeed be from his treatment as a POW, but is more likely to be from the crash when he was captured.

There is something that doesn't add up about McCains story about his time as a POW, especially compared to other accounts from other POW's.

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 04:27 PM by LiquidMirage

Originally posted by budski

Who are we to believe - a man who has shown he is quite prepared to get into the gutter to further his ambitions?

I'm puzzled

Why are you bringing obama into this? What does he have to do with it?

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 04:50 PM by on_yur_6

Originally posted by hypervigilant
reply to post by on_yur_6

Senator McCain's before and after photos aren't any more remarkable than those of Marines after a 13 month tour of duty. He actually looks better than the guys getting off of commercial flights as they arrived home after departing from a period of intense combat.

I encourage you to see video. Almost as skinny as WW2 death camp prisoner not to mention how hard it was to walk or function.

Everyone give this a read from truth or fiction: Our Flag

For those that cannot access:

From a speech made by Capt. John S. McCain, USN, (Ret) who represents Arizona in the U.S. Senate:
As you may know, I spent five and one half years as a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War. In the early years of our imprisonment, the NVA kept us in solitary confinement or two or three to a cell. In 1971 the NVA moved us from these conditions of isolation into large rooms with as many as 30 to 40 men to a room. This was, as you can imagine, a wonderful change and was a direct result of the efforts of millions of Americans on behalf of a few hundred POWs 10,000 miles from home.

One of the men who moved into my room was a young man named Mike Christian.

Mike came from a small town near Selma, Alabama. He didn't wear a pair of shoes until he was 13 years old. At 17, he enlisted in the US Navy. He later earned a commission by going to Officer Training School. Then he became a Naval Flight Officer and was shot down and captured in 1967.

Mike had a keen and deep appreciation of the opportunities this country-and our military-provide for people who want to work and want to succeed. As part of the change in treatment, the Vietnamese allowed some prisoners to receive packages from home. In some of these packages were handkerchiefs, scarves and other items of clothing. Mike got himself a bamboo needle. Over a period of a couple of months, he created an American flag and sewed on the inside of his shirt.

Every afternoon, before we had a bowl of soup, we would hang Mike's shirt on the wall of the cell and say the Pledge of Allegiance. I know the Pledge of Allegiance may not seem the most important part of our day now, but I can assure you that in that stark cell it was indeed the most important and meaningful event.

One day the Vietnamese searched our cell, as they did periodically, and discovered Mike's shirt with the flag sewn inside, and removed it. That evening they returned, opened the door of the cell, and for the benefit of all us, beat Mike Christian severely for the next couple of hours. Then, they opened the door of the cell and threw him in. We cleaned him up as well as we could.

The cell in which we lived had a concrete slab in the middle on which we slept. Four naked light bulbs hung in each corner of the room. As I said, we tried to clean up Mike as well as we could. After the excitement died down, I looked in the corner of the room, and sitting there beneath that dim light bulb with a piece of red cloth, another shirt and his bamboo needle, was my friend, Mike Christian. He was sitting there with his eyes almost shut from the beating he had received, making another American flag.

He was not making the flag because it made Mike Christian feel better. He was making that flag because he knew how important it was to us to be able to pledge allegiance to our flag and our country.

So the next time you say the Pledge of Allegiance, you must never forget the sacrifice and courage that thousands of Americans have made to build our nation and promote freedom around the world. You must remember our duty, our honor, and our country.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

These men went through horrible treatment... ALL of them. To hear the hatred from some of you on here it really makes me wonder what has happened to this world.

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 06:05 PM by monkeybus

woah! Deja-Vu

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 06:09 PM by TKainZero

reply to post by budski

Your right, i even found the interview here...

YouTube Link

just the first min of it

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 07:13 PM by loam

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by loam

we deny ignorance by asking these questions - not by attempting to ridicule those who ask them.

That might actually require that such questions be asked with some semblance of neutrality.

I mean at least give me some window dressing here. Yours didn't even get cheap curtains...

I'll call that out all day long.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by loam]

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 07:19 PM by dgtempe

He was TOO tortured horribly. I hate lies. I dont care much for him and will not vote for more of Bush but he did suffer at the hands of
those that tortured him.

Would that make him a good president? I dont see how it could based on that alone, but he has suffered.

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 07:21 PM by HIFIGUY

Without reading any posts in this thread and reading only the title I have but this to say.

John McCain was as service man held in captivity, away from his country and those who love him.

Even though I am an Obama supporter, John McCain is still an American hero. 5 years away, is torture of the mind. From family and friends.
Never knowing if your going to get free.

The torture of not knowing. John McCain, I may not know you, but you are man who has walked in shoes many of us will never know.

I salute you.

Peace

[edit on 14-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 10:52 PM by TheAgentNineteen

Are you SERIOUSLY going to believe an enemy combatant over an American Service member? I cannot believe that you would even give this "Guard" the light of day, what is wrong with you? Where is your common sense and loyalty? I fail to formulate an actual reply, beyond the fact that those who take faith in some Viet-Cong scum over an American and Allied hero, must have some serious "ambitions" of their own. I guess Senator McCain just jumped off the roof of the Hanoi Hilton and broke his own bones. Some of you individuals know absolutely NO low.

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 10:58 PM by TheAgentNineteen

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Without reading any posts in this thread and reading only the title I have but this to say.

John McCain was as service man held in captivity, away from his country and those who love him.

Even though I am an Obama supporter, John McCain is still an American hero. 5 years away, is torture of the mind. From family and friends.
Never knowing if your going to get free.

The torture of not knowing. John McCain, I may not know you, but you are man who has walked in shoes many of us will never know.

I salute you.

Peace

[edit on 14-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]

I respect for you for such a position, which goes beyond the biased partisanship of Politics. I wish more Citizens could look past their own Political "ambitions" and stop taking sides with America's enemies. It used to be that we as Americans could simply disagree over governing issues, and policies, but we NEVER disagreed over our loyalty towards this Nation. Too many seem to have abandoned such beliefs.

[edit on 10-14-2008 by TheAgentNineteen]

reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 11:45 PM by CreeWolf

I definitely believe the North Vietnamese Soldier's story. Their government is FAR MORE trustworthy than ours. I wish I could move there. At least their government is honest. I love North Vietnam. Heck, look at one of their fellow Communist asian nations. North Korea is SO much more advanced than ours. Kim Jong Il of North Korea was "green" even before the craze hit the US. He requires his citizens to turn off the lights at night to conserve energy and greenhouse gases. Every citizen gets 3 square meals a day.

Yes, surely I would give up my laptop, freedom of speech, football games, nachos, beer, and electricity to become a citizen of this great nation. To doubt the word of this North Vietnamese soldier is ridiculous! He speaks his own words no doubt!

Democracy is out. Socialism is in. It simply HAS to be true because nothing else explains the logic of our younger "Ideologists". We should have put leftists in charge 50 years ago so we didn't waste so much time fighting a Cold War against these happy-go-lucky nice Communists!

reply posted on 15-10-2008 @ 12:32 AM by TheAgentNineteen

Originally posted by CreeWolf
I definitely believe the North Vietnamese Soldier's story. Their government is FAR MORE trustworthy than ours. I wish I could move there. At least their government is honest. I love North Vietnam. Heck, look at one of their fellow Communist asian nations. North Korea is SO much more advanced than ours. Kim Jong Il of North Korea was "green" even before the craze hit the US. He requires his citizens to turn off the lights at night to conserve energy and greenhouse gases. Every citizen gets 3 square meals a day.

LOL HAHAHAHAHA........................

That is a good one. The "Fat Beaver" was all about Living "Green" long before we were. It all makes sense NOW! We simply misunderstood Kim Jong and his intentions, as he simply sought to conserve Electricity, invest in renewable Nuclear Energy, and eliminate Carbon "footprints" through a massive Population decrease. Amazing. Rumors have spread as well that the "Dear Beaver" finally took his own life in a futile attempt at reducing his own massive Carbon "footprint".

reply posted on 16-10-2008 @ 12:43 PM by network dude

reply to post by CreeWolf

please let us know who much the plane ticket will cost and I am quite sure we can scrape up enough donations to send you on your merry way.

If any of you think any, I repeat, ANY american POWs in North Viet Nam were not tortured, please take off your rose collored glasses, set them on the table, and do a TINY bit of reaserch into what these heros had to go through. You make me sick to the point of blindness from rage. There is almost no way people can be that ignorant. I'll bet you think the Jews back in WW2 were just a bunch of whiners.

reply posted on 16-10-2008 @ 02:35 PM by ZindoDoone

reply to post by CreeWolf

Your post reeks of great sarcasm. I hope I read it correctly. If it was meant that way, I have to commend you on your skill.

Zindo