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Are we all in Hell?

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posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 10:56 PM
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I wanted to throw this question out to the ATS community. After much contemplation over my forty something years of existence on this little blue ball called Earth I have come to the conclusion that we are all in Hell right now? First of all, I am a former Christian who after many years of study left the faith and eventually became a follower of Buddhism and Taoism. I believe in reincarnation, Karma, and the Law of Cause and Effect. But, if I was appointed as a new God or Devil and was assigned the task of creating a Hell to punish or purify living creatures I believe there would be no better blue print for a hell than the one all creatures on this planet face everyday. (Read: Mark Twain's "Letters from Earth")

In Shin Buddhism, which was founded by a Japanese Buddhist monk who lived from 1173-1262 AD stated the following, "Hell is my only destination." For me, personally, this too is my realization. The one path I have plunges me into hell and yet, at the same time, into birth in the Pure Land, to which the experience of shinjin awakens me. Shinran expresses the existential sadness of falling into hell, but, at the same time he expresses his joy about going to the Pure Land. Thus he says, with equal conviction, "Hell is my only destination" and "I am walking to the Pure Land". web.mit.edu...

Everyday we are surrounded by suffering and for every brief moment of pleasure we face an equal amount of suffering in one form or another driven by selfish desire. But, I believe as we go through the cycles of birth and rebirth we are given the opportunities to realize that the highest form of love is compassion for every living being, that all we know is an illusion, and that Nirvana or Heaven can be reached eventually.

Mark Twain’s Creed:

I believe in the God the Almighty.

I do not believe he has ever sent a message to man by anybody, or delivered one to him by word of mouth, or made Himself visible to mortal eyes at any time or any place.

I believe that the Old and New Testaments were imagined and written by man, and that no line in them was authorized by God, much less inspired by him.

I think the goodness, justice, and mercy of God are manifested in his works: I perceive that they are manifested toward me in this life; the logical conclusion is they are manifested toward me in the life to come, if there should be one.

I do not believe in special providences. I believe that the universe is governed by strict and immutable laws. If one man’s family is swept away by a pestilence and another man’s spared it is only the law working: God is not interfering in that small matter, either against the one man or in favor of the other.

I cannot see how eternal punishment hereafter could accomplish any good end. To chasten a man in order to perfect him might be reasonable enough; to annihilate him when he shall have proved incapable of reaching perfection might be reasonable enough; but to roast him forever for the mere satisfaction of seeing him roast would not be reasonable … even the atrocious God of the Jews would tire of the spectacle eventually.

There maybe a hereafter and there may not be. I wholly indifferent about it. If I am appointed to live again I feel sure it will be for some sane and useful purpose other than to flounder about for ages in a lake of fire and brimstone for having violated a confusion of ill-defined and contradictory rules said (but not evidenced) to be of divine institution. If annihilation is to follow death, I shall not be aware of the annihilation and therefore shall not care a straw about it.
I believe that world’s moral laws are the outcome of the world’s experience. It needed no God to come down out of heaven to tell men that murder and the other immoralities were bad, both for the individual who commits them and for the society that suffers them.

If I break these moral laws I cannot see how I injure God by it, for he is beyond the reach of injury from me-- I could e




posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 11:11 PM
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hey could someone clear this up for me.. satan fell out of heaven right and on towards earth. We had jesus come down to earth and present him to us. Could there be some type of connection here?



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 11:19 PM
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I think there is no difference between Hell or Heaven other than what you choose to look at. Hell is where you are when you allow yourself to wish with all your might you were somewhere else. It is resistance to "what is."

Heaven is where you are when you allow yourself to deeply and completely accept with an open heart "What is."

Some people choose to look at all the suffering, but do not see people reaching out to help, selflessly. They resist the suffering aspect, and thus miss the joyful portion.

Some people look at death, and ignore the bursting forth of new life everywhere, all the time. They resist death and miss life.

I think Heaven or Hell is merely a frame of mind.

I know someone will likely say, "it isnt a frame of mind for someone being tortured to death," or something like that, and I agree it would be harder to find Heaven there. I think that is what Jesus was trying to do, to manifest Heaven on Earth even in the midst of great personal suffering. I dont know if he succeeded or not, nor do I know if I would. However I do believe it could be done. And will be, someday, by someone.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 11:24 PM
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I've just written a short story regarding this very topic.

It proposes that we are in a type of cosmic bubble - a shell concealing us from the rest of the universe, and everything we see from here is a holographic representation of the outer realm.

In my story the 'visitors' enshrouded our planet in a cloak in order to manipulate and observe our civilization. I've loosely based some of this on reality, as well as a few historical figures and events.

It seems very plausible that we are indeed in a type of hell, and we are being watched -- and eventually our performance will be judged.

There's much more to the story than this however - if you like sci-fi, you just might like this.

It's entitled These Dark Worlds



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 11:26 PM
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I have had this same thought many time through out my life. Perhaps reincarnation is correct. Perhaps we are reincarnated because we screwed up the last time we were alive. Perhaps we are forced to repeat this process time and time again until we get it right. I would say very few of us, no matter how noble, or just, or good we think we are, would say that deep down inside there is not a daemon capable of horrible things if we were put into the wrong situation. Perhaps in our previous lives, at some point we were put to the test, and we failed, hence we are reincarnated to someday face that test again to see if our soul has learned anything from its past mistakes. I doubt any of us will really know. However, my father once said that everyone always knows what the right thing to do is, it is just of question of whether we do it or not.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 11:36 PM
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I have always found hell in the seperation from love. It is something we make ourselves, and something we have thrust upon us. I believe the essence of knowing god is to never have to walk this path without love. And if I can keep that in sight, I know I'll have the courage to walk a little longer.

[edit on 13-10-2008 by TravelerintheDark]



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 07:11 AM
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reply to post by cemore
 


Apostate! Planet Weasel is a taste of Hell. The "light of God" is still in this world. You ain't seen nothin'... yet! In Hell their will be no "light". In Hell you will eternally contemplate rebellion to "The Way". This world was created for the COG. The Children of God are here to learn by first hand experience what life is like under "different" rules/law. We enjoy and welcome all lessons! The "program" was made for us. The "program" is perfect. Twain was a whiner. He lost a son to diphtheria and raged against God. Mortality can be painful. Immediately feeling the effects of our choices is a gift from God. Hell is feared even by Demons! Oh... please... please don't send us to the "place of outer darkness".... Demons begged to be sent into pigs rather than be sent to HELL! If not for the Light of God in this world then you would really be in Hell! Planet Weasel is a perfect construct designed to test and refine the COG in a "furnace of affliction". You ain't seen nothin' yet..... Apostate. Wake UP! You needn't despair.... >>>>>"Hell is my only destination." For me, personally, this too is my realization."



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 12:58 PM
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if hell is a place of eternal damnation and if you are theorizing that earth is that place, the earth would have to be eternal.

our sun and this earth is around 4.5 billion years old, and our sun is said to burn out in another approx. 5 billion years. once that happens, life goes bye-bye.

eternity has no time-line, but our solar system does.

what about life elsewhere in the universe? what if we develop technology to bounce around the universe, ensuring our survival?

does hell fellow us?

is to be alive...hell?



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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cemore --


great post!

where can I find the entire Mark Twain quotation? I feel very much the same way, and would like to read the entire piece.

Thanks,

Keeb



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by Evasius
It proposes that we are in a type of cosmic bubble - a shell concealing us from the rest of the universe, and everything we see from here is a holographic representation of the outer realm.

In my story the 'visitors' enshrouded our planet in a cloak in order to manipulate and observe our civilization. I've loosely based some of this on reality, as well as a few historical figures and events.

It seems very plausible that we are indeed in a type of hell, and we are being watched -- and eventually our performance will be judged.

There's much more to the story than this however - if you like sci-fi, you just might like this.

It's entitled These Dark Worlds

You have a very acute imagination that may be more based in reality than fiction.

The fact is, the game is rigged. We're thrown into this cage with no memory of who we are, naked and screaming, and expected to find our way out.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 12:51 AM
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reply to post by Eleleth
 


Thanks, I hope you read the story if you haven't already (and flag or star it if you feel it's worthy).

Anyway, I just recalled this short animation that actually features a claymation Mark Twain and portrays an interesting, yet hellish version of our reality.

au.youtube.com...



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:10 AM
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To quote Christopher Marlowe's Faust:
Hell hath no limit, nor is it circumscribed in one self place. It is where we are. And where we are, therefore hell must ever be!
________________________________________________

Hell is a state of mind. When you realize the truth of this, it's dialectic nature also becomes apparent.

Heaven and Hell are dialectic opposites on the opposing sides of a continum. The difference is in the fixation of the attention. If you choose to fixate upon the hellish, you will miss the divine in life.

Think positive thoughts!

Look for the bits of good and you will find there is a balance. Fixate upon the good, and you will find more Heaven than Hell. Practice this and you will find that you were calling hell down upon yourself, as Faust did.

To answer your question, yes you may very well be in hell. I was.

You do not have to be in hell. You choose to be in hell with what you select from the menu of the possible things to see and hear, and places to be.
Walk into the light Dorthy Ann! Walk into the light!

I have witnessed bliss among some of the most poor and underprivledged on this planet. People who are old and frail to the point of natural death by the age of 30.

I have seen rich Americans suffer the tortures of hell.

I have run from my home in hell to wander the earth in an effort to escape the grips of that hell, only to carry it with me where I went.

The truth of myslef is that I an not such a hedonist as to feel a need for being in a state of bliss or heaven. But I learned to let go of the hell thing.

I am much happier now. Enjoy a cup of tea, go pick a flower, bake some cookies. Enjoy what you can, most of it is pretty good, and everything you truly need is supplied by the universe, from the moment you are born, until the moment you die.

[edit on 15-10-2008 by Cyberbian]



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:22 AM
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Hell and Heaven are what you make of them.
Personally, if this be hell, I'll shun heaven.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 07:04 AM
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It is conceivable that hell was just a rubbish tip:
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:11 AM
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Hell is a person who would behave hellishly. Whose will is hellish is hell.

Heaven is a person who behaves heavenly. Whose will is heavenly is heaven.

Heaven and hell arent hard to find.

You cant quench your burning will if it's either heaven or hell, but someone external can stop you from doing the hellishly or the heavenly, but can not stop you from being hell or heaven. Being and doing are seperate things.

There is no would-be evil, but there is would-be foes to each. The would-be foes would do evil toward you with the intent to make it known they are actually being evil toward you.

If you are in hell now, then it just means it seems someone is doing hellishly things toward you. In the bible those "in" hell got removed. It is implying, in a layer, that persons are removed from being subjected to the persons who are hellishly. After removed from the hellish, as long as your name is found written in the book of life, you wont be dumped with the hellish into the lake of fire. The hellishly get put into the lake of fire with death (living and dieing) because the hellishly do not have their names written in the book of life since they will not overcome evil and can not overcome good, which is encassing them so that they are kept from doing any evil they would actually do toward another.

Satan overcame because his name was written in the book of life since says the fact he was given a new name. Jesus gives a new name to who overcome, remember? See:

Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

^^The first quote implies also for Lucifer who was given the name Satan. No where in the bible did Lucifer give himself the name Satan is implicating he was given a new name for overcoming.

The second quote can imply that Jesus' new name may in fact be both Satan (earthly) and Michael (heavenly).

Check it out:

Rev 12
7And there was war "in" heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

^^Neither prevailed and neither are "in" heaven (the person) can imply they are heaven and heavenly. You'd have to be hellishly (the person) to be "in" heaven (the person). So Michael against the dragon only imply the heavenly against the earthly. Implying either rises up for different occasions. So in occastion Satan is seen risen up as Jesus new earthly name, and in occation Michael is seen risen up as Jesus new heavenly name. Both are for a purpose you are to see why heaven and earth mixing = who and what paradise is.


[edit on 17-10-2008 by Mabus]



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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I once read a book entitled "The History of Hell", it's not the one by Alice Turner, this one was published much earlier. I do not recall the name of the author, but I'll check my copy when I get home. At any rate it is a very interesting and informative narrative tracing the first written record of the idea of "Hell" and how it has evolved and been adapted over the years by different religions, up to modern times. It's a great read that basically presents the premise that the modern christian concept of hell derives from much older traditions, and is basically a scare tactic to coerce people into following the "rules", or risk eternal damnation.

Regarding the question of whether Earth is Hell or not, I don't know, but it sure could be!



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by banyan
if hell is a place of eternal damnation and if you are theorizing that earth is that place, the earth would have to be eternal.


Maybe earth itself isn't hell, but simply the 'physical' existence?

Space, that contains this physical existence, is eternal, right?

So, if this planet expires there are many others. When this planet expires, then maybe 'life' just starts over on some other planet? Or maybe it already exists on other planets? Maybe there are an unlimited amount of Earths? Maybe when 'hell' gets too out of control it is wiped out (revelation) and started again?

To me this would also explain reincarnation, and possibly why it was removed from the Bible (if that's true of course). If we are not ready for Heaven (or a spiritual existence), then we reincarnate back to this physical existence. If man has manipulated the Bible for their own need to control, then I can see why they wouldn't want us to know this 'truth'?

I'm not a religious person as such, but I have always had this feeling that our life on Earth is not about having a good time but is about punishment, reflection and a chance to do good. If heaven exists then there is no evil there, and you need to experience evil to be able to express your desire for good?

I'm just making guesses here to motivate discussion.

[edit on 10/17/2008 by ANOK]



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 02:14 PM
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I remember a missionary once telling me about how when Christ went up the mountain and was temped with every temptation that a man can go through, Satan showed him the world (not just like maps, but everything about the world, how it works, how to have all of it you want etc...) and offered to give it to Him if He would just bow down and worship him, and Christ told him to get behind him etc... that he is not to be tempted etc...

The missionary then asked me, "How could Satan truelly offer something unless he himself owned it?"

I was thinking, 'but satan is the lord of lies' BUT this was a genuine offer from an owner to a potential client.

The conclusion is that satan owns this world... make of that what you will.



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 02:20 PM
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Interesting to read Mark Twain’s Creed. I don’t agree with everything he said, but lets’ not forget it was his point of view in that time and age.

I believe in Karma and in reincarnation. God (as the source of everything) is ALL. All is God. We are all our own creator.

My point of view is as follows:

We create Hell for others and ourselves when we only focus on negative emotions.
Hence we create Heaven when we focus on positive emotions.

When I was in my teens I thought merely living on earth was equal to living in Hell. Since then I changed my mind about that. We have the possibility to focus or refocus on our emotions.

Emotions of all sorts pass by like the wind. Only by acknowledging the negative and positive as 1 whole we can escape the solitude of Hell.

Let’s not forget that our lives are like a test but a test one cannot fail. It’s not the goal that is important, it’s the way how we get there.

Both Heaven and Hell are simply a state of mind. Nothing more, nothing less.


[edit on 10/18/2008 by Melyanna Tengwesta]



posted on Oct, 18 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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If this is hell, it'll do fine thanks!

Why live with such small "niches" though?

Hell......just a word.






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