Obama Born In Kenya? His Grandmother Says Yes

Originally posted by drock905
This man is running for arguably the most powerful position in the world. Every record should be disclosed.

To whom? What makes you think that he hasn't already disclosed all proper records to all proper authorities? Why are you not also insisting on John McCain's records?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by drock905
This man is running for arguably the most powerful position in the world. Every record should be disclosed.

To whom? What makes you think that he hasn't already disclosed all proper records to all proper authorities? Why are you not also insisting on John McCain's records?

sen john mccain's records were questioned, as he was born on a military base in panama or where ever... he present his articles of proof promptly *which obama has yet to do * and prooved he was born on a military base, US SOIL

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I thought McCain already went through all of this when he ran in 2000. Didn't a court uphold his natural born status then and wasn't his "problem" resolved and cleared up?

Maybe not...Source





[edit on 10/15/2008 by skeptic1]

isn't this suppposed to end today?


i thought the judge gave h im until oct 15th to prove himself?

i mean, it's been since august that he's been sued for it!

reply to post by indigothefish


That order was not signed by the judge; Berg has only filed the papers with the court.

what does the judge singing stuff have to do?

i mean i just wana know for sure where he was born. and if he is lying>

is that too much to ask. i'm going to vote for him or his opponent - i'd like to know the truth.

reply to post by indigothefish


Since this is a lawsuit, the judge has to order Obama to produce the material in question. If the judge does not sign the order, Obama is under no legal obligation to produce the material Berg wants.

So, until the judge signs the order, we all have to wait.

reply to post by indigothefish


Edit: What Skeptic said.

I'm not sure what his singing ability would have to do with the case, but his signing the court order would validate the court order. Without his signature it's just a motion filed by the plaintiff which could be filed by any one of us.

[edit on 15-10-2008 by round_eyed_dog]

i understand the legal techs

but he has a moral obligation to answer the peoples question

think of it this way, this is a requirement to become president, and
there is reasonable doubt that he actually was born in the USA

therefor it is his obligation as running for president to put forth effort to prove wrong any one who says he was born in kenya...

as someone else said in this thread... he is controlling this 'very shadily'

and it's that behavior that i don't want in a president, i could care less where you were born, but if you can't tell the truth, i'm not voting for you.

with that reasonable doubt, he has to prove SOMETIME his legal natural born evidence

for the sake of those who care for an honest president.

Originally posted by skeptic1
I thought McCain already went through all of this when he ran in 2000. Didn't a court uphold his natural born status then and wasn't his "problem" resolved and cleared up?

He did go through it and as long as no one challenges it, he will probably be fine. They have to consider intent. And it was decided that the founding fathers never intended to exclude a person born to 2 citizens serving in the US military.

My point is that we, the public, never asked for proof positive that McCain is eligible as people are demanding of Obama. He doesn't owe it TO US. He has to prove to the DNC, the FEC or the State Department (the people who check these things) that he is eligible. But he doesn't have to prove it to the whole world.

Originally posted by indigothefish
but he has a moral obligation to answer the peoples question

I disagree. If he has shown proper proof to proper authorities, he is not obligated to answer any questions.

Originally posted by dariousg
I don't think anyone is saying 'who cares if he ISN'T a citizen of the U.S.'. What I, and most others I'm sure, ARE saying is that his mother was a U.S. citizen. She did NOT relinquish her citizenship. If he was born here or in Kenya he would still be a U.S. (NATURAL BORN) citizen.

Not according to the law that governs someone born at that time:

If one parent is a US citizen, and the other is not, and the parents are married, then the current law says the child is a US citizen if the American parent was physically present in the US for one or more periods of time totalling at least five years, at some time or times in his or her life prior to (but not necessarily immediately prior to) the child's birth. Additionally, at least two years out the required five years of physical presence must have taken place after the parent's 14th birthday; thus, for example, a parent who was born and grew up in the US, but who left before reaching age 16 and never returned, doesn't meet the requirement.

Prior to 14 November 1986, the physical presence requirement in this case was ten years (instead of five) -- including five years (instead of two) spent after the parent's 14th birthday. The requirement was reduced in 1986, but the change did not retroactively make US citizenship available to people born previously who did not meet the old requirement. (Congress's intent not to make this change retroactive was affirmed in 1988 with the passage of Public Law 100-525, § 8(d), 102 Stat. 2619).

Source.

If he was born in Kenya in 1961, then he is not a 'natural born citizen' as his mother was only 18 at the time of his birth, and did not achieve the 5 years post age 14 required at that time. The law has changed but is not retroactive.

reply to post by drock905


Okay -- Berg's argument at the opening of the video is, and I quote: "Obama's not producing these documents. And if he's not producing them that means he's a total fraud, he's a phony, and really he should be arrested, and tried, and deported."

I don't mean you any offense drock905, but that is garbage! Because Obama is not producing the documents does not mean that he is a fraud, phony, should be arrested, tried, and deported. The conclusion to Berg's argument is false. Because of that the argument is invalid.

The other thing is that Berg's premise might also be false. Maybe Obama is producing the documents and has been all his life, only he hasn't produced them to Berg's pleasure.

After delivering that piece of trash, Berg then says that Obama is trying to destroy the Constitution. Of course, that claim relates to Berg's argument of Obama not producing documents. That because Obama is not producing documents, that means that Obama is trying to destroy the Constitution. Again, the conclusion is false and the argument invalid.

Then Berg goes on to give his credentials, thereby creating the impression that he is an authority on the matter that he presents. If he can't convince his audience with his trashy arguments, he'd like to persuade by presenting himself as an authority figure. That's a fallacy. He's making an appeal to his audience through his authority so that everything he says will be viewed at true, even though much of it or all of it is not true.

Then Berg makes claims that Obama is not qualified to run for POTUS. Of course, that's just Berg making a claim, by his own admission he doesn't have any documents to prove otherwise, BUT he wants his audience to believe his claims anyway.

Don't you recognize this simplistic BS?

Berg is being a slick lawyer trying to gain support and bring national attention to his case. Hopefully trying to persuade people who don't know any better. That video shows Berg being a slime ball. He doesn't seem to be doing anything except creating controversy.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Yes, I also believe every candidate''s birth records should be available. We are not talking about McCain, this thread is about Obama and the questions about his birth certificate.

I would be saying exactly what I am saying if McCain's birth had inconsitancies, and his relatives claimed he was born out of the country, when he denies it.

What bothers me is why has Obama's handlers not put this issue to rest already.

Last time I ask this question (before I believe this thread should be locked):

Can anyone source the original articles/time that Obama's grandmother allegedly said this?

reply to post by Areal51


No offense taken, I cant watch Berg's video. From what you wrote i agree he seems biased and very slick. But I dont think he matters in the big picture.

I think the important part of this whole issue is that Obama's grandmother, half-brother and half-sister have said that he was born in Kenya.

I honestly I don't know how legit the reporter is that wrote the article, but I believe this story has been kicking around for a while. If a more news outlets picked up the story it would have more creadence. Until then I will give Obama the benefit of the doubt.

I just find it hard to believe that 3 direct relatives are confused about where is born. It just SEEMS to me he is hiding something.

Originally posted by drock905
I think the important part of this whole issue is that Obama's grandmother, half-brother and half-sister have said that he was born in Kenya.

There is no source for this other than what Berg said.

reply to post by drock905


You say that right after my comment asking for an original source.

Source the comment (not references to the comment - the comment itself), or quit using it.

reply to post by Sublime620


I've been searching the net to try to find a source for the comment....and all I find are blogs, World Net Daily, Israelenews.com....and ATS. Along with online newspapers that are reporting on the Berg lawsuit.

Search Results

reply to post by skeptic1


^^

My point exactly. These people must have gotten this quote from somewhere if it is true. Usually if you can't find the source comment, the person never said it.

He needs to produce a valid birth certificate!!

End of Story.

This is ridiculous. I can't beleive how many people on this board defend Obama and say it is a technicality. You obviously have a biased view on the matter. Both canidates need to produce all the required paperwork to prove their citizenship. It sounds like McCain has already done this and been an open book. On the other hand, it sounds like Obama and his legal staff are trying to stall or hope this matter just goes away. It won't and I will tell everyone I know that his citizenship is in question and hopefully many ATSers will do the same!!

Don't say he has already produced this paperwork because obviously he has not. The Certificate of Live Birth that has been shown is not enough to prove his status. If it was, there wouldn't be a lawsuit against him and the judge would have promptly thrown the case out!!!

Just show a valid Birth Certificate and everyone can let this matter rest!!