A View of the Entire Universe- The Mandelbrot Set

Great post. I've always been fascinated by fractals, even before I got into things like cosmology and metaphysics. This seems tied to the holographic universe theory. Just like a fractal, you can break a hologram into as many smaller pieces as you want, and each part still contains the totality of the original image.

Originally posted by 12.21.12
Now what is most interesting about this set is it's relationship to the year 2012.

www.egnogra.com...

oh hey look, more oogie boogie "I can make anything fit" numerology articles. wanna see how your name spells out satan and thus renders this article full of crap?

I guess this is somewhat related to the Holographic Universe Theory, which claims that everything, and everyone within the universe is connected.

I thought that picture looked really really familiar and I'ts been killing me trying to figure out where i had seen it before, at last I figured it out, when I was a real little kid i lived in houston, and my mom had a painting of that exact picture up above our couch, freaky eh'.

reply to post by TravelerintheDark


thats excellent!! flower of life

reply to post by Gwendoline


I enjoyed your post Gwendoline. Being sentient to contemplate is such an honor! Love and Light to the All. Have a beautiful day!!

satya meva jayate

dont know if this has been posted yet but if your interested in this please take the time to view these videos of Nassim Haramein. He has written a new Unified Field theory that is about to be published in some mainstream physics magazines that basically say that the universe's geometry is basically a fractal, just as is being discussed here. Very Very interesting stuff.

video.google.com...

video.google.com...:004764722344893170701&hl=en

reply to post by ambushrocks


Nah, you didn't offend me, it's just the Bible talks badly about this idea of man being god, I agree about the being made in God's image thing, we are made to be creative, that's part of the image of God.

Someone said something about imagining these things in 3D, well, here is the result of the mixture of fractals and geometry:



And if you can't see it try this link:

[url=http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=437&g2_serialNumber=2]>>>LINK

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

Yeah, this is true. I see people attempt to create "groups of individuals" but all they're really doing is creating an individual group that will then be among other individual groups consisting of individuals.

Yes. And, I would argue when we make an "us" and "them" we draw lines or create mental divisions where none are justified. It may be practical, I would not advocate completely abandoning it when navigating the world, but I would also argue that ideally, one would be aware that one is operating in an artificial constraint imposed upon us by the architecture of the mind itself. In a fractal, where does "one" begin and "the other" end? Where are the individuals? It is both a multiplicity and a singularity, and neither. A broad outside view causes it to be an apparent "one" a narrow view of only a particular bit causes it to appear as many.

Consider what it would seem if you could not step back and look at it as a one, nor narrow down and see it as a many.

www.newscientist.com...

In fact, light's chameleon-like ability to behave as either a particle or a wave, depending on the experimental setup, has long stymied scientists. Danish physicist Niels Bohr explained this wave-particle duality by doing away with the concept of a reality separate from one's observations. In his "Copenhagen interpretation", Bohr argued that the very act of measurement affects what we observe.

One controversial experiment recently challenged this either/or scenario of light by apparently detecting evidence of both wave- and particle-like behaviour simultaneously. The work suggests there may be no such thing as photons - light appears quantised only because of the way it interacts with matter.

Emphasis mine.

Our minds want things to be "either/or" or even "both" or "neither." Our minds are nearly incapable of understanding something that is both and neither simultaneously. Nearly. An understanding of sorts is possible, a personal one, but it breaks down when words are used to describe it.

en.wikipedia.org...

In Brhadaranyaka Upanishad, god is questioned by his students to describe God. He states "The Divine is not this and it is not that" (neti, neti).

Thus, the Divine is not real as we are real, nor is it unreal. The divine is not living in the sense humans live, nor is it dead. The Divine is not compassionate as we use the term, nor is it uncompassionate. And so on. We can never truly define God in words. All we can say, in effect, is that "It isn't this, but also, it isn't that either". In the end, the student must transcend words to understand the nature of the Divine.

In this sense, neti-neti is not a denial. Rather, it is an assertion that whatever the Divine may be, when we attempt to capture it in human words, we must inevitably fall short, because we are limited in understanding, and words are limited in ability to express the transcendent.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
.....that we are all truly united whether our minds accept it or not, we all effect one another through the physical.

I would say that in essence, as close as our words can get to the truth, we are all not only affecting one another, we are one another. There is no "other." We do of course speak and act as if we are individual, here, but I would argue that is the architecture of the mind only that causes us to see these apparent divisions. We can only see "slices" of What is" and these slices are what allow us to assume disconnects, or divisions, where in truth there are none. Nor, is there a "one" (which would require that outside itself view to justify.) There is no outside the Self (All that Is). How could there be? You would have to be where "Is Not" is, (which begins a chain of irrationality) to have an outside view of "all that is." It is neither a one, nor a many. But somehow both and neither.

I think it would be too much to expect that our little minds could grasp the truth of "what is" but perhaps it would suffice if we could be aware that what we think it is is incorrect. It seems to me that we, any of us, (what would "who" matter if division is not) are apparently aiming, (for what could aiming really mean) to completely realize, (make real to the mind or even to the awareness that precedes mind) that there is, in truth, no "other."

Originally posted by TheBarrelMan
starred and flagged

Fractals have always amazed me. The last time i turend off tuned in and dropped out, i saw fractals in everything. The first hour or two there were fractals on everything i looked at but there was only 200+ of them in my vision. By the 6th hour there were 500+? fractals in my vision. Its like they just kept zooming in and multiplyin. By the 16th hour there were probably 1000's. I started to think that we were light beings of some sort and that infinty was just around the corner for me to understand spiritually.

I havent understood it but hopefully next time i turn off, tune in and drop out i will

Not to be sarcastic or anything like that but I must ask:

What the hell are you talking about?

Sorry, not trying to derail...

"I can ride my bike with no handlebars, with no handlebars, no handlebars..."

I don't even know the song.

Absolutely agreed. This is an amazing truth that reminds of some of the religions like buddhism and such when it comes to positive and negative effects.

In the end, its kinda like karma. Be who you wanna be, act like what you want to become and in the end you will achieve it. Great thread.

and AMAZING PICTURES.

-Cm.

The Mandelbrot set reminds me of a seated buddha visually.






It even has the little pointy thing on top.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

is it possible that the universe is infinite therefore no border and the set depicts rather creation? The one that is the many that are the one. Infinite, eternal, as well as personal and knowable.

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark

Isn't it obvious that minds are dissimilar? How else could we be having a discussion of such?

I dont look in the mirror to see a dissimilar other, I look in the mirror to see views and aspects of myself I cannot see from inside myself.

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
The opposite exists by nature, not through any specific creation.

I would argue that it does not exist by nature. I would argue that what we call "winter" "spring" "summer" and "fall" are one cycle that we break into chunks for our own ease and convenience. I would say that that is the case with any apparent opposite. If we see them as opposite it is because we are only able to view the whole from one angle.

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
And while from a particular point of view opposition is an illusion, it is the interpretation of the illusion that we live in. Which is the point of view I'm speaking from right now.

I can play a video game and know it is a game while I play it. Even if it were a fantastic virtual reality, utterly immersed in the game and not looking at a screen, I could still "know" that I was in a game. I am not saying at all that there is not a convenience in naming things and drawing lines. I would only say that this convenience becomes a hindrance if one forgets it is a convenience only and mistakes it for "truth."

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
If I were a completely self-sufficient organism, with no need of any outside assistance, then simply being would be practical. I wouldn't need to concern myself with the doing, thinking, being of others. As it is, I am not. And don't know anyone who is. So it is in my best interests to seek out those who are willing to work with me.

I do not think that the "fractal" view of reality would suggest that you isolate one "bit" of the fractal completely from the entire set. That would be beside the point. It would ask more that you recognize as "you" the entire set.

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
I understand and believe the philosophy, but I see it as useless if we can't translate it into practical existence.

I think that is what many of the mystic teachers have tried in earnest to do.

Jesus, for instance asks that you "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." And to "love thy neighbor as thyself," and to "judge not lest you too be judged." Although I know that these are not commonly interpreted as being pointers to our "sameness" or "lack of other-ness" I would argue that in that culture in that time, to those people, it was an attempt to convey that vision in a way that was practical and understandable and applicable. Not having our science, our math, our Mandelbrot set as an illustration, our ability to view the Earth from space and see it as one, I do not think it is difficult at all to see why it was taken the way it was. Especially considering that with all that, plus exposure to endless mystics that have pointed as the same "lack of other-ness" and our bandying about words like "oneness" we can barely even grasp what that means today.

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
And I would say these were truly minds dissimilar from mine, as I have never considered such an act, and never will.

I believe that you believe that your mind is truly dissimilar, and I do believe that you would probably never act in that way, but I do not think any one has a truly dissimilar mind. It seems to me that the degree to which the potential we all carry is expressed or made manifest is the only "difference."

I think that if we were able to look at ourselves without denial or unconsciousness, one could find if not the act itself, but the seed that sprouted the root that grew the plant that produced the fruit that was that violent act. It may be several "transmutations" away from what happened to you, but I would argue that it is there in you and it is also there in all of us.

I would say that none of us to a person, (in the apparent division) does not have that potential lying within us. Denying it, is like planting the seed. It gives it a warm dark place to sprout and begin to grow. What makes some "harmless" is that they have awareness of the potential for violence within them and they do not give it the soil in which to sprout.

I would argue that the very misunderstanding that "we are separate" from each other and from God, is that seed.

It's just a mathematical formula. There are many other examples of numeric formulas that create designs, both in academia and in nature. One simply calculates the formula repeatedly until it reaches a certain numerical limit and assigns a color to each the value to produce these patterns. Are you implying that fractals are proof of God? Are you actually implying a mathematical formula is proof that we are part of God just because YOU had a DREAM?!? Are you sure you didn't read a little Buddhist philosophy before napping? You may as well start a cult. I can see it now - WE ARE ALL FRACTAL GODS - HEAR MY DREAM!!! Whatta bunch of idiots.

I, also, believe that we are all one, and the 'one' that we are is God. I've come to this conclusion through my limited understanding of Quantium Physics & the teachings of Meher Baba.

you and I are not "WE," but "ONE." Thus every one of us is Avatar, in the sense that everyone and everything is everyone and everything, at the same time, and for all time.

www.alishya.com...



[edit on 14-10-2008 by corusso]

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
I dont look in the mirror to see a dissimilar other, I look in the mirror to see views and aspects of myself I cannot see from inside myself.

I agree. Using the word dissimilar is, in this instance to me, simply implying a difference in perspective. Not that there is anything inherently different except for the interpretation.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
If we see them as opposite it is because we are only able to view the whole from one angle.

Again, I agree. From "down here" things look different then they do from "up there" which is to say that if we can draw back far enough we would see only the singularity. I don't mean opposite to compare, only to differentiate the simplest state I believe humans can truly understand as it is the nature of reality as we know it.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
I do not think that the "fractal" view of reality would suggest that you isolate one "bit" of the fractal completely from the entire set. That would be beside the point. It would ask more that you recognize as "you" the entire set.

I don't think so either. I understand that there is no true separation, but it isn't always the convenient perspective. Again, it's the reality we exist within. If I'm starving, it does little good to know that I am also a loaf of bread.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
I believe that you believe that your mind is truly dissimilar, and I do believe that you would probably never act in that way, but I do not think any one has a truly dissimilar mind. It seems to me that the degree to which the potential we all carry is expressed or made manifest is the only "difference."

Denying it, is like planting the seed. It gives it a warm dark place to sprout and begin to grow. What makes some "harmless" is that they have awareness of the potential for violence within them and they do not give it the soil in which to sprout.

Absolutely. I have walked several paths in my life. Not all of them with dignity. And anger was a longtime companion. My violence was more internal and emotional. I'd never deny that about myself, as I do understand the inherent danger there. Suppression is an impossibility. In acceptance I find release.

To use your analogy: What we hide away grows wild and ragged. What we accept we can cultivate to bear useful fruit.

Originally posted by IllusionsaregranderI would argue that the very misunderstanding that "we are separate" from each other and from God, is that seed.

Indeed. That is why I express unity both philosophically, or perhaps I should say spiritually, and practically. Spiritually, unity is inherent. From this comes the blocks I hope to use to build a practical, physical sense of unity. On its simplest level in seeking like-minded people and sharing our perspectives. I don't see these as opposing ideas. Quite the opposite.

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark

I don't think so either. I understand that there is no true separation, but it isn't always the convenient perspective. Again, it's the reality we exist within. If I'm starving, it does little good to know that I am also a loaf of bread.

Lol, that was fantastic.

No, it certainly doesnt. All it can do is make starving to death less of a "problem" by realizing that life/death would also be two "views" of something fundamentally indivisible.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark

I don't think so either. I understand that there is no true separation, but it isn't always the convenient perspective. Again, it's the reality we exist within. If I'm starving, it does little good to know that I am also a loaf of bread.

Lol, that was fantastic.

Thank you, I'm glad you appreciated it.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
No, it certainly doesnt. All it can do is make starving to death less of a "problem" by realizing that life/death would also be two "views" of something fundamentally indivisible.

This is true, and so I see it as not a point to avoid but rather to make the journey as comfortable as possible in whatever ways we can.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


the pointy thing on top is your pineal gland. that is our connection to the true one god. god is the connection between the infinitly small and the infinitly big. we can never fathom that abilty or place but need to obtain the closest possible relation to that point in this eden god created.

our experience of time is in an emergence based reality through the eye of god. the amount of awakenings to these theorys and others is refreashing. upon any gain of truth most people with spiritual awakenings want to share this and its very diffucult to do. the most you can ever do is give them a piece of your puzzle to ponder. dont dwell on telling them where it fits into there own puzzle. just countinue concentrating on yours with glances back at the piece receivers....the secret most dont know is everyones working on the same final puzzle yet we treat each other like we are not.


lets create a new internet as a tool for true democracy. voting on all issues put before us in a massive worldwide popular vote. you could even tie it into neccesitys with the main function of requisition and trade of you as a resource. if all govt lawmaking jobs are cut you could easily build a solar sat internet device with biorhytmics and hand them out to every man women and child on earth. once everyone is accountable for the state of all societys than true change can occour without fear of death and prosecution.

there is no good and evil
there is only self and others
eden can soon be reached
with devotion to our brothers

love hope faith and humility to all