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Originally posted by slymattb
Miriam if you can give some time what are your thoughts on what I have said just carious????
Originally posted by jmdewey60 The pagan ideas that were the foundation for the Trinity doctrine being developed, so many hundred years ago, may not be so influential, today.
The Greeks worried about things like differentiating between the Titans and the Gods, and came up with a principle of the un-changeable nature of God. So, they ended up with the necessity of Jesus being eternally God.
Now, we have the opposite concept gaining prominence, that God can change all He wants and could be the El of the Old Testament, at one time, and Jesus at another, without any contradiction of foundational beliefs. Thinking like this can calm a person's worries of damaging a strict monotheism, but you cause other theological problems that lead to having to ignore a lot of verses in the Bible.
My answer is I have no pagan beliefs (I was raised to be as adverse to pagan symbology, as much as any J's W*, with no cross on our Bible or on the church, no Easter or religious observance of Christmas or Sunday). I do not want to cater to the old pre-Christian paganism that I do not think is as big a problem as the post-Christian paganism that is creeping into dominance, with no concerted resistance from Christians, in general.
you completely skipped over many of my points and have an arrogance about your typing.
why would he not be incensed with us if were are praying to a pagan trinity in his name?
And the communion is biblical I don't really know if this is true so please give me scripture and a tell me what it is.
It can be done by anyone thats a man of God.
Originally posted by JesusisTruth
yea right. Kid listen, you are a circular argument, you completely skipped over many of my points and have an arrogance about your typing. Like I said you will find this out later hidden in your soul.
As for st Gemma, you don't know how good she was. She grew up Catholic, she had the stigmata and she gave her life for others. Your ass don't know her like that thank you.
like I said, and seriously saying it again since you skipped it the first zillion times woman.
Jesus came as a servant but was equal to God. Scripture points this out. Also the fact that Thomas called Jesus lord and God.
Jesus is the lord of the sabbath
all things subject to christ
Christ and his saints.
nor was satan called God.
and no I don't want you to die, I want you to see what I see and you will soon. Soon the Lord will show you face to face and time will do what it will do.
until let's hope the readers are smart enough to realize what I'm saying.
No Miriam, I think when Jesus gave the keys, he gave them the power to interpret scripture and tell us what is needed for salvation. And they are not changing it, what is truth anyways? The OT didn't contain hidden mysteries and truth back then, they contained commandments and doctrines but it wasn't the time for God to reveal others truths like the NT era, which is what the holy ghost did and they didn't change they ellaborated on the truths in a more deep way.
The questions therefore arise, What does Jesus mean when he says to Peter: “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of the heavens”? (Matt. 16:19) What are the keys? How many are there? When were they used and for what? Who benefits from the use of the keys?
Jesus gave us a clue to what the keys open up when he said to the Jewish Pharisees: “Woe to you who are versed in the Law, because you took away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not go in, and those going in you hindered!” (Luke 11:52) The keys, then, would have something to do with unlocking knowledge. They would unlock something that had been previously locked up for centuries. They would have to do with the sacred secret of God, his administration of the universe by his heavenly kingdom. (Rom. 16:25; Col. 1:26, 27) While faithful men of ancient times had looked forward to the coming of the Messiah and his kingdom, it was never understood by them that associated with him would be men taken from earth to heaven to be heavenly kings and priests. The apostle Paul explains the purpose of this sacred secret at Ephesians 1:9-12; 3:5, 6.
Since even the faithful prophets of old did not have this knowledge, when was it first opened up? When were the keys used and how many of them were there? In speaking of the sacred secret, notice that the apostle says that a feature of that secret was “that people of the nations should be joint heirs and fellow members of the body and partakers with us of the promise in union with Christ Jesus through the good news.” (Eph. 3:6) The “us” here would be Paul and his fellow Christian Jewish associates. He speaks here additionally of people of the nations as others to whom this knowledge would be opened. So there were two keys of the Kingdom, keys that unlocked knowledge. First, the Jews had the opportunity unlocked to them of entering into the heavenly kingdom and, second, the Gentiles were later invited to this great privilege.
Accordingly, the greatest favor ever offered them was that which God held out to them a short time after Jesus’ death, at Pentecost, 33 C.E., for at this time Peter stood up and used the first of the keys of the Kingdom. There was a miraculous outpouring of the holy spirit upon the 120 disciples in the upper room, which brought the attention of a great crowd of the Jews gathered at Jerusalem for the Pentecost festival. By holy spirit Peter explained to these Jews that this miraculous occurrence was in fulfillment of Joel 2:28-32 and explained that Jehovah had resurrected Jesus and had exalted him to his right hand, giving him the promised holy spirit, which he was now pouring out upon the 120 disciples. Peter then unlocked the door for these Jews by saying to them: “Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the free gift of the holy spirit.” (Acts 2:38) There were three thousand Jews that immediately grasped the opportunity for gaining the heavenly kingdom with the Messiah or Christ. Shortly after this the number grew to five thousand.—Acts 2:1-41; 4:1-4.
[edit on 31-10-2008 by miriam0566]
How did it come about that Peter used the second key? Just as in the first instance holy spirit directed him, so in the second instance it was not his own idea. He did not bind up the opportunity exclusively for the natural Israelites until the end of the seventieth week. He did not loose the Gentiles from their restrictions to enter into the race for the heavenly Kingdom. All this was arranged in heaven first by God, not by Peter on earth, as the account of the facts shows.
There was a Gentile man, a devout worshiper of God but not a Jewish proselyte, a centurion named Cornelius. Exactly at the time of the end of the seventieth week, God by a vision and by his spirit instructed Peter to accept Cornelius’ invitation to his home in Caesarea, after Peter had hesitated. When Peter arrived and saw the Gentile people gathered there to hear the Kingdom message, he said: “For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial [now to the Jews], but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.” Heaven thus directed Peter and he stood up and used the second key by preaching to those Gentiles about the Anointed One, Messiah the Leader, and how he died. He said: “God raised this One up on the third day and granted him to become manifest, not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand by God, to us, who ate and drank with him after his rising from the dead. Also, he [God] ordered us to preach to the people and to give a thorough witness that this [Jesus] is the One decreed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. To him all the prophets bear witness, that everyone [Gentile or Jew] putting faith in him gets forgiveness of sins through his name.”
The Gentiles listening accepted this Kingdom message with full faith, and God himself showed his approval of Peter’s use of the second key by his acceptance of the Gentiles to be grafted in to fill the places the Jewish nation had vacated. (Rom. 11:17-19, 24) The account reads: “While Peter was yet speaking about these matters the holy spirit fell upon all those hearing the word. And the faithful ones that had come with Peter who were of those circumcised were amazed, because the free gift of the holy spirit was being poured out also upon people of the nations. For they heard them speaking with tongues and glorifying God [like on the day of Pentecost].” Peter acted on this indication from God by informing these Gentiles what to do, saying: “Can anyone [Jewish] forbid water so that these might not be baptized who have received the holy spirit even as we [natural Jews] have?” No circumcised Jew present forbidding, Peter “commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.”—Acts 10:1-48; 15:7-9.
The question arises, Did Peter continue to carry these keys of the Kingdom around with him to open to those whom he would and to close to others the opportunities for entering the Kingdom? Are there more keys besides the two? The answers are shown in the following facts. Up to this time God had divided up mankind into just two classes: the Jews, whom he dealt with as his special people, and the people of the nations, the Gentiles. So only two keys were needed. Neither could Peter use the keys further, for the door was opened to both Jews and Gentiles now. In using the second key Peter did not shut the door to the Jews but merely opened up the opportunity to the Gentiles as well as Jews. From this time on, Jews and Gentiles were on the same basis as to opportunities of entering into Kingdom privileges. There was therefore no need for further keys and neither could Peter close or lock the door of opportunity thus opened, for the two keys were to unlock, not to lock up Kingdom opportunities.