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Obama : "It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody that

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posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar
reply to post by ATruGod
 


And what happens when you cannot make the payment? Foreclosure. Then you are screwed again, but I guess it would be the banks fault for kicking you out huh?

Walking away fro the down payment might have been hard, but it would have been the SMARTER thing to do.

I was in a similar situation with a car purchase. I was stuck too. About 10 years ago I was driving a piece of crap truck. I was thinking of buying a new one before the old one started to die, but hadnt really pursued the idea much.

Anyways, on the way home from work one day, the truck started to die. Coincidentally I was passing a car dealership. I pulled in and the truck died. Not a mere breakdown, but certain death of that piece of crap.

I found a truck I liked, they gave the initial terms and the payment was affordable.

After the usual runaround, they came back with a payment of $110 more than the first amount. I knew I couldnt afford that, but I too was stuck.

Know what I did?

I walked home 10 miles that night. Not fun, but better than signing a contract to buy something I could not afford.


Walk away from 12k? Are you kidding? What kind of a dream world do you live in? I told you I worked on the deal for 6 months for them to change it at the last minute should be criminal they already had everything from me they requested. They changed the deal not me why should I be the one to lose out?




posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by ATruGod
 


12k is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

If it took you 10 years to save 12k, perhaps you couldnt afford that house anyways.

YOU still signed a contract for a payment that was higher than what you were comfortable with. No matter what you say, that will not change.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by Constitutional Scholar
 


Well, I don't know how it's going in your part of the universe, but down where I am, even the crap jobs are downsizing. I have a friend looking for work who has been in the mortgage business and sales a good chunk of his life who now can't even get a job in retail at the local mall.

I work in a veterinary clinic, and our business is suffering right now.

And forget about the people who just graduated from college. Mcjob, here they come.

People are struggling, and it's not the ones at the top. We struggle every week to feed our kids, and we eat ground turkey spaghetti, nothing fancy. We work our damn butts off to pay our bills. I would get a second job, as you so graciously suggest, however, I couldn't make enough at even two jobs to afford the payment to daycare (obviously you don't have any children). Daycare, by the way, in my area is about $1000 dollars a month for just one child. May as well buy another house, or, according to you, a Ferrari.


I'm curious as to the exact size of that high high horse your're sitting on.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by chickenshoes
 


Actually, yes I do have children. A 10 month old.

Times are tough no doubt, but its definitely not impossible.

I was the definition of poor. Got out of the Army, no civilian job skills. Worked crap jobs in construction and I literally pulled pennies out of my couch cushion to buy ramen noodles for dinner.

I got tired of Ramen for dinner and decided to dedicate myself to actually making something out of a bad situation.

Worked 2 jobs (60-70 hours) per week. Got tired of busting my ass to make other people money.

It can be done, but its not easy. Making excuses and blaming others is easy.

Have you sat down and done the math? Would it be more beneficial for you to work 2 jobs while your wife stays home with the kids? Or does she make more, and would it be better for her to work 2 jobs while you stay home?

Struggle is part of life, and unless someone tore up your insurance policy and set your house on fire, there is no one to blame.

Economies rise and fall, thats why thinking head is a necessity. Some people arent meant to own a home (like trugod). Nothing wrong with renting, but people want that fable known as "the American dream".

No one is entitled to own a home. No one is entitled to help you own a home. If you can afford it, fine buy a freakin house. But dont buy one until you have 100% sure you can afford it, even in bad times.

Incidentally, how long have you been in this situation?



[edit on 15-10-2008 by Constitutional Scholar]



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar
If it took you 10 years to save 12k, perhaps you couldnt afford that house anyways.


Great another insult.

So you can justify the banks position in changing terms when they have someone "over a barrel"? Fine its not really logical but ok.

But come on



12k is nothing in the grand scheme of things.


Whos grand scheme? In my world $12,000 would get me far.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by ATruGod
 


They are the ones making a loan, they are free to change the terms at their discretion. Again, if you dont like it, dont sign.

12k is less than what a full time minimum wage worker earns.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar
reply to post by chickenshoes
 


Actually, yes I do have children. A 10 month old.

Times are tough no doubt, but its definitely not impossible.

I was the definition of poor. Got out of the Army, no civilian job skills. Worked crap jobs in construction and I literally pulled pennies out of my couch cushion to buy ramen noodles for dinner.

I got tired of Ramen for dinner and decided to dedicate myself to actually making something out of a bad situation.

Worked 2 jobs (60-70 hours) per week. Got tired of busting my ass to make other people money.

It can be done, but its not easy. Making excuses and blaming others is easy.

Have you sat down and done the math? Would it be more beneficial for you to work 2 jobs while your wife stays home with the kids? Or does she make more, and would it be better for her to work 2 jobs while you stay home?

Struggle is part of life, and unless someone tore up your insurance policy and set your house on fire, there is no one to blame.

Economies rise and fall, thats why thinking head is a necessity. Some people arent meant to own a home (like trugod). Nothing wrong with renting, but people want that fable known as "the American dream".

No one is entitled to own a home. No one is entitled to help you own a home. If you can afford it, fine buy a freakin house. But dont buy one until you have 100% sure you can afford it, even in bad times.

Incidentally, how long have you been in this situation?



[edit on 15-10-2008 by Constitutional Scholar]


Actually, darlin', my husband is fortunate to work 40+ most weeks, unless the weather's bad, then it's beans and ramen noodle week with a little egg if we're lucky.

We have done the math, and decided the only feasible option was for me to work part time in the evening after he gets home. Sorry, we can't do the 2 job thing here. Even if either of us could find another job, we still don't have any friends or family close by that are able to help fill in watching the kids.

We were struggling after our first child was born, but I was forced to cut my hours back after our second child, right at 1 year ago. And, before you question our decision to have a second child when we were already struggling, he was an oops, and we just didn't feel right about aborting.

And yeah, I see what you're saying to trugod about not buying a house if you can't afford it, but seriously, she had sunk 12 grand into already. And you say she's just supposed to walk away from that? She could have done $900 a month, and then they went and switched it after the money was already put into it. What feasible scenario would you suggest? That she just flush that money and start over again? Is there something I'm not understanding here? You act like that amount of money is nothing, but I'm telling you, we could make that stretch pretty far, and it would take us forever to be able to save it up, too.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar
reply to post by mecheng
 


Have those specific laws that were violated in regards to the war?


Sorry, was away... Yeah, actually, I have one:

Article I, Section 8 of that document you claim to be a Scholar of grants Congress the power to declare War.

Now don't get me wrong, Congress should have stepped up and said no to all of this. Technically, if they weren't spineless jellyfish that had been misled by the NeoCONS, they could have impeached the president right there and then.

Oh, but that's off topic, isn't it... Sorry, mods.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by ferretman2
www.breitbart.tv...

Obama: "It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody that is behind you, that they have a chance for success too."

Obama is on record now that he wants to redistribute wealth. Take from the people who have worked hard to be successful and give it to others who have refused to help themselves to a better life.

[edit on 13-10-2008 by ferretman2]


WOW....What a great example of reading with colored glasses on.

Notice the word CHANCE...as in OPPORTUNITY?

Or the part about NOT wanting to punish the success of the wealthy?

You read giving the middle class more OPPORTUNITY to succeed as re-deistributing wealth?



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 01:12 PM
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Frankly, yes, the consumers are partially to blame for this mess...
That being said, for just $100 billion of that "bailout", every defaulted mortgage in the nation could have been paid in full. The hard, sad, truth is that this whole thing isn't about defaulted mortgages at all. It is about bigwig corporate execs playing fast and loose games with Investor's money, losing it on a bad gamble that they knew was bad from the onset, and then expecting every single working American to pay for their misdeeds. Heads will roll, sir, whether it be by Obama's new policies, or by marching in the streets.
The simple facts are:
The Banks wrote mortgages they knew were "high risk"
The insurance companies insured these bad loans with capital they didn't have based on low repossession rates at the time.
If everything had gone as planned, they would be rolling in record profits (no problems there).
The banks adjusted their interest rates (ARM's) higher than the customer's ability to pay.
Foreclosures increased astronomically, and AIG (that wonderful gambling insurance company) could not pay for all of the defaulted loans.
Because everything did not go as planned, now the American tax payer is expected to not only lose their property, but also pay for the bad debts of these greedy tycoons while they get multimillion dollar bonuses.
So, I ask you sir, where is the "fairness" in making the public pay not just once, but TWICE for bad gambling in the market?
It was the rapid de-regulation of the markets (because after all, they can regulate themselves, right?) that led to this mess. Obama wants to restore regulations back to the way they should be with a little Congressional oversight to boot. Sounds like a plan to me.
I ask you, sir, who is whining here, the Americans who have to shoulder all of these burdens, or the greedy gamblers who came to the Fed with hats in hand saying "Oh, you can't expect US to pay for this, after all, we got you into your cozy job to begin with".



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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Redistribution of Wealth?

Trickle down? I call it Trickled ON...
McCain's tax plan is obviously socialism because it reditributes wealth by giving the biggest tax breaks to the wealthy while requiring the middle class to pay the same. McCain is a pond-scum sucking SOCIALIST!!!


John McCain's plan to address the ailing economy includes a big cut in the capital gains tax rate, from 15% to 7.5% for the next two years.

The vast majority of realized capital gains--that's the money you make, for example, when you sell a stock for more than you paid for it--go the richest families, so they're the ones who benefit from this. The good number crunchers at the Tax Policy Center examined who would benefit from the McCain proposal. The middle fifth of families end up with all of 0.2% of the benefits. That's not a typo. The tax break would lower their annual tax bill by $4.00. OK, that is a gallon of gas, but it's not what you'd call a game-changer.

The top 20% end up with 98.3% of the benefits of the cut, and the top 1%, with income above $600,000 get 75% of the gains, for an average benefit of $37,600. The average tax savings for the top 0.1%--income above $3 mil--is $244,000. In other words, this isn't a recipe for helping families hurt by the financial crisis and the recession. It's a recipe for more income inequality.


[edit on 15-10-2008 by mecheng]



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 01:45 PM
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One more point before I crash and burn (sleep)...
Funny how all of these "Constitutional Scholars" always ignore the famous line in the preamble that specifically states that "We the People..." will "promote the General Welfare..."
That specifically means that it is the Government's job to take care of the People. We're not asking for handouts, we're asking for accountability. If I have to balance my checkbook on a daily basis and live within my means, then the Global Corporations should be expected to be every bit as responsible as I have to be. Far too long have the lobbyists written the laws in their favor. The free ride is over.
Funny how the same Corporations that not only sponsored, but actually WROTE the bill that makes it almost impossible for the average citizen to declare bankruptcy and possibly get a fresh start are now themselves declaring bankruptcy left and right.
Accountability... That's all I'm asking for. I'm held accountable if I get myself in debt. It should be no different for these losers who are gambling with money that does not exist.
Enough said.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:00 PM
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Just because you have something doesn't mean you deserve it.

Corporations and extremely wealthy people manipulate the system in order to keep and get more power.

But if the public tries to use the system to balance things out it is redistribution of wealth?

What a joke.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:18 PM
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Sad. The exact same things were said during the Clinton campaign. Yes, the campaign that helped produce the strongest economy in American history.

Sure, the people on this thread will say, "He wasn't responsible for that. It's merely a coincidence that the economy was strong, unemployment was down, pay rates were up, etc. It wasn't him, it was just the economy going up."

Then they'll say, "OMG Clinton caused this current crisis", completely ignoring that he didn't pass any bills - Congress did (a Republican one).

So, long story short, the trickle down effect, voodoo economics method has proven itself to be a failure. Flat taxes don't work and make the lower-class suffer.

One-time tax rebates are useless for the economy. They provide a temporary jump start, where as appropriate taxes helps lower-income families stay afloat.

Buy hey, you can believe what you want to believe.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by Sublime620
 


LOL... spot on, sir! Kudos!
As I said on another post, very funny that when America is in dire straits and the economy is in the toilet, the public rushes to the Democrats to save their jobs and what little dignity we have left. I honestly do have to thank Dubya for one thing: Before his administration, I was a Libertarian. I believed that the market should have no regulation whatsoever, and Capitalism should reign supreme. Now that we have had 8 years of that, and the Libertarians sold their souls to nominate Bob Barr, I have seen the error in my prior thinking. The market, quite frankly, cannot regulate itself due to that wonderful human shortcoming: GREED.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 03:02 PM
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I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. Listen, everyone knows there is corruption in our government. Both democrats and republicans do it. Get over it. If you want to change something, try running for office yourself as I plan on doing in the next 2 to 4 years hopefully.

The thing is, I agree with Constitutional Scholar here, people DO need to take PERSONAL responsibility on some things. Here's an example, my Aunt decided to sign an Adustable Rate mortgage on her house. Her monthly payment has doubled over the past year and a half. But guess what, she is not complaining, because she knows that it was HER who signed that contract, therefore, SHE is reponsible. Now there are cases where people misled homebuyers, and they should be dealt with, but probably more than 75% of the time, the homeowners knew what they were signing, but they were blinded by glitz and glamour of having their own house.

What happened to SAVING for 5 to 10 years so you can put down 20% on your house, and have VERY LOW payments, the reason is, is because a majority of Americans want the American dream without having to pay a price, nothing comes free.

Now, my personal opinion is that both Obama and McCain aren't going to do anything to REALLY help the situation at hand. I'm writing in Ron Paul, and am putting my faith that Jesse Ventura will run as an Independent in 2012. Anyways, that's my 2 cents.

Oh, and Wonka, I totally agree with you about Bob Barr, the libertarians sold out majorly selecting him. He is NOT a libertarian by any means.


[edit on 15-10-2008 by Slazer]



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 03:28 PM
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Here's a cool link that might have been missed:

online.wsj.com...


I'm done resisting "assimilation" by the Obama Borg.... I'm going to quit my job, stop paying my mortgage, and wait for my free money to roll in.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by jerico65
 


Oh, noes!!!! Tax credits for a college education!
Oh, noes!!!! Tax credits for clean, efficient automobiles!
Oh, noes!!!! Tax credits for actually (gasp) saving money!
Oh, noes!!!! Tax credits for daycare (we all know how cheap that is).
Whatever will we do with well-educated people with money in the bank that can actually afford to go to work without worrying about their children while we all breathe cleaner air??? Shocking!


Seriously, Obama's plan is by no means perfect. I am not an Obama Borg by any stretch of the imagination. If you want to blame anyone for the way I feel about things right now, feel free to blame the Bush/Reagan/Clinton dynasty. Trust me when I say it is they who have pushed me to this point. We've tried it the Reagan way for 25 years now. And look where it got us. I'm just saying, let's give something else a chance for a while. Obama is going to spend most of his first term in office just doing damage control for the current failed policies.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by wonkamaniac
One more point before I crash and burn (sleep)...
Funny how all of these "Constitutional Scholars" always ignore the famous line in the preamble that specifically states that "We the People..." will "promote the General Welfare..."
That specifically means that it is the Government's job to take care of the People. We're not asking for handouts, we're asking for accountability. If I have to balance my checkbook on a daily basis and live within my means, then the Global Corporations should be expected to be every bit as responsible as I have to be. Far too long have the lobbyists written the laws in their favor. The free ride is over.
Funny how the same Corporations that not only sponsored, but actually WROTE the bill that makes it almost impossible for the average citizen to declare bankruptcy and possibly get a fresh start are now themselves declaring bankruptcy left and right.
Accountability... That's all I'm asking for. I'm held accountable if I get myself in debt. It should be no different for these losers who are gambling with money that does not exist.
Enough said.



Sigh.....here we go again, yet another twit who thinks he knows something.

Education time, so get your crayon out and take notes:

A) The preamble doesnt confer any power, the general welfare clause is found in Article 1 Section 8

B) GENERAL- not individual. As in welfare of the nation, not the person you fool

c) Government has no constitutional obligation to "take care of the people". Believing that is does means you pay zero attention to history, the founding fathers, or the Supreme Freaking Court.

Seriously, if you want to debate constitutional matters, please at least have basic knowledge of it.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by chickenshoes
 


By your own admission, you were already struggling, yet you CHOSE to have a 2nd child.

You may not have felt abortion/adoption was the right option, but it would have been the smart and responsible one.

Yes, trugod is just supposed to walk away from the down if they couldnt meet the terms. There is more to the story (as is always the case) that trugod isnt telling us.

Again, trugod is the one responsible for his current predicament. He signed on the dotted line.



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