Obama : "It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody that, page 1
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Topic started on 13-10-2008 @ 01:41 PM by ferretman2
www.breitbart.tv...

Obama: "It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody that is behind you, that they have a chance for success too."

Obama is on record now that he wants to redistribute wealth. Take from the people who have worked hard to be successful and give it to others who have refused to help themselves to a better life.

How can Obama provide tax cuts to 95% of Americans when 35-40% don't pay taxes? Those 'Non-tax' paying individuals will get a free hand-out.....if that's not welfare then was is?

[edit on 13-10-2008 by ferretman2]


reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 04:51 AM by GamerGal
reply to post by nyk537



Uh, Obama has called for a TWO years tax break on small companies. So how is he raising them on the small businesses again? Know your facts, don't get them from Fox News or blogs.


reply posted on 14-10-2008 @ 08:26 AM by jtma508
There is so much 'not in my back yard' mentality flying around. We've had a $10B a month spending spree thanks to the wars in the ME; $2.4T for the War on Terror by 2017; the bail-out package whose real number is elusive, but for the sake of discussion let's say $1.5T; $25B to the automakers... you get the idea. We're spending a phenomenal amount of money above and beyond the 'normal' day-to-day business of the country. Unprecedented is a good word.

So who is going to pay for all this?

Two-thirds of U.S. corporations paid no federal income taxes between 1998 and 2005, according to a new report from Congress. Collectively, the companies reported trillions of dollars in sales, according to GAO's estimate.

More than 38,000 foreign corporations had no tax liability in 2005 and 1.2 million U.S. companies paid no income tax, the GAO said. Combined, the companies had $2.5 trillion in sales. About 25 percent of the U.S. corporations not paying corporate taxes were considered large corporations, meaning they had at least $250 million in assets or $50 million in receipts.


Apparently not businesses.

The 'transfer of wealth' argument is convenient to say the least. There has been an ongoing and accelerating transfer of wealth from the lower economic cohorts to the highest for many years:

The gaps in wealth between the rich and the poor and between whites and minorities have grown wider, the Federal Reserve said Wednesday in a closely watched report that also showed a broad increase in stock ownership in the USA.
The difference in median net wealth between the 10% of families with the highest incomes and the 20% of families with the lowest incomes jumped 70% from 1998 through 2001, the Fed said in its consumer finances report, which it conducts every three years. The gap between whites and minorities grew 21%.

The wealth gaps between races and income levels had shrunk slightly from 1992 to 1995 but had also risen by double digits in the 1998 report.


and:

"We have had a fairly sharp increase in wealth inequality dating back to 1975 or 1976. Prior to that, there was a protracted period when wealth inequality fell in this country, going back almost to 1929. So you have this fairly continuous downward trend from 1929, which of course was the peak of the stock market before it crashed, until just about the mid-1970s. Since then, things have really turned around, and the level of wealth inequality today is almost double what it was in the mid-1970s.
Income inequality has also risen. Most people date this rise to the early 1970s, but it hasn't gone up nearly as dramatically as wealth inequality.

The top 5 percent own more than half of all wealth. In 1998, they owned 59 percent of all wealth. Or to put it another way, the top 5 percent had more wealth than the remaining 95 percent of the population, collectively.
The top 20 percent owns over 80 percent of all wealth. In 1998, it owned 83 percent of all wealth. This is a very concentrated distribution.

The bottom 20 percent basically have zero wealth. They either have no assets, or their debt equals or exceeds their assets. The bottom 20 percent has typically accumulated no savings. A household in the middle-the median household - has wealth of about $62,000. $62,000 is not insignificant, but if you consider that the top 1 percent of households' average wealth is $12.5 million, you can see what a difference there is in the distribution."

Edward Wolff, professor of economics at New York University


So charges of 'socialism' are being made to sully any attempt to balance the tax burden in this country. But if we want a current example of 'socialism' we need only look as far as the current financial systems bailout. Only those acts of socialism directly benefit the wealthier cohorts so apparently it is OK. But not to everyone:

"As I've often said... this [increasing income inequality] is not the type of thing which a democratic society—a capitalist democratic society—can really accept without addressing."

Alan Greenspan, June 2005


"Americans have the highest income inequality in the rich world and over the past 20–30 years Americans have also experienced the greatest increase in income inequality among rich nations. The more detailed the data we can use to observe this change, the more skewed the change appears to be... the majority of large gains are indeed at the top of the distribution."

Smeeding, T. (2005). Public policy, economic inequality, and poverty: The United States in comparative perspective. Social Science Quarterly, 86, 956-983.


The stability of a country is measured by the disparity in wealth between the lowest economic cohorts and the highest. The greater the disparity the less stable a country is.

No one wants to pay higher taxes. But this country's finances have spun out-of-control and we're facing a long, grueling uphill climb to get things back on-track. How do we distribute the costs of that climb?

Something that troubles me --- especially here on ATS --- is the preponderance of overly-simplistic, black-and-white arguments. There are few thiungs in nature that are black-and-white. Fewer still in society. There is, instead, a nearly ifinite range of greys.

Personally, I'll end-up paying more taxes under the Obama plan. Like anyone else I'd rather not. But I'm a realist. Huge mistakes have been made by the leadership of this country and we're all going to have pay the tab for that drunken kegger. I believe this country --- any country --- is better off when people have hope. This isn't about lazy, underachievers. That argument is ridiculous if not outright insulting. It's about taking responsibility. Which is worse, the single mother getting foodstamps to feed her kids becuase her take-home isn't enough to make ends meet or the corporate CEO who can pay a tax accountant $1M to make sure he shelters all his income?

Keep one thing in mind all you blue-flag-waving folks: those military people that we need to honor? They're middle-class. Their families are on-the-ropes. This 'wealth distribution' will help them, too.


reply posted on 15-10-2008 @ 07:49 AM by GamerGal
reply to post by wonkamaniac



Thank you. I said it, they disagreed with... Fox News BS. And as said he'll give a tax break to small companies, but remove Bush's tax cuts to the companies that ship jobs overseas. So if you're a small company that uses Child Slave Labor in China or Africa then yes you will be taxed more. But if you use American Labor you'll get a tax break. McCain however will raise everyone's taxes by 2,800 dollars JUST for his new health insurance tax. Not to mention what he'll need to raise to pay for Iraq for 100 years and for a new war in Iran.


reply posted on 15-10-2008 @ 08:08 AM by wonkamaniac
reply to post by Oldtimer2


Oldtimer2, you are both right and wrong.
Did you attend public school when you were growing up? You socialist!
Do you have a public fire and police department? You socialist!
Does a guy from the city pick up your trash once a week? You socialist!
Just kidding, sir, and I mean no disrespect... I'm trying to make a point. Socialism is all in the eye of the beholder. That being said, I do tend to agree with you that our markets should not be socialist at all, but they do need to be regulated with plenty of Congressional oversight. Reagan killed that, and look where it has got us.
Personally, I believe health care and schools and law enforcement and education should be socialized (law enforcement already is). Socialism is not necessarily a dirty word. Socialism without checks and balances and oversight is horrible. The reason? Corruption and greed. Human nature. We already live in a system that is partially socialized, everytime you visit the public library, keep that in mind.


reply posted on 15-10-2008 @ 08:17 AM by wonkamaniac
reply to post by llpoolej



Do the businesses you speak of net more than $250,000 per year? If not, you are completely safe. Also, are you willing to create jobs here in America? If so, you will get a deduction for that. Don't jump the gun on Obama, give him a chance, and all will be well. Believe me when I tell you that he does not want to hit small businesses at all, it's the major Global Corporations who do not pay their fair share that he is targeting. If you are not Exxon or Verizon, you'll be just fine.
Don't panic, it will be okay.
Believe me, I am not a Democrat. I am completely Independent at this point. I have done my homework on this particular subject, simply because I am a tax outlaw.
If we start using tax dollars to build roads and send people to college again like Obama states, and stop spending money on bombs that kill innocent people, I will start paying my fair share of taxes once again.


reply posted on 15-10-2008 @ 08:50 AM by GamerGal
reply to post by llpoolej



Actually under Obama you'll make more money then ever. He'll drop your taxes and give you incentives to keep your company employing Americans. Under McCain... Higher taxes to pay for his trillions of dollars he'll spend on Iraq, Iran, bad mortgages, and MORE money to AIG CEO's who will spend it on more trips to California spas.
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