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Extreme back to basics survival thread

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posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 11:49 AM
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*IMPORTANT NOTE*


This thread is not for the purpose of ARGUING whether or not a need for this type of survival WILL happen, it is only for discussing what to do IF such a need or circumstance arises.



I have been browsing this forum without posting for some time now and what we are lacking is a thread for nothing but the most basic extremes of survival.
I cannot even imagine the possible catastrophe that could bring upon such a need but should it arise.. there needs to be knowledge of how to's of survival without the assistance of modern conveniences.

NO premade ropes, twine, metals allowed to be used in this thread.
If you have a survival tip that comes from your own resources and nature alone that is what this thread is for.

Lets start with the Water filtration from total basics.
NO tin can.. you find some birch bark or large strong leaves to create a funnel with a small opening and put layers of pebbles and sand for filtering your water before purifying it.

Next problem say you are in that situation and there is no metal.. no modern leave behinds.. what do you use to sterilize your water in?

Ideas?

I hope you all get the idea this is for the most basic and extreme of conditions.
What can we come up with?

Other things I would like to see.

Making soap from nature. Proceedures for identifying the proper plants for healing and the techniques for use.

I know that the likelihood of this necessity may be rare, but shouldn't we be prepared for the possibility of NOT being able to rely on modern things to survive with?

How do we start over if we have to?

This is what I want to address with this thread.


[edit on 13-10-2008 by NephraTari]




posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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I believe requests for this type of information have previously been referred to several books.. the names of all but one elude me. I recommend starting with Ray Mears's manuals, army handbooks are also good.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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OK, Sounds like a plan .
It's a great idea going over the basics every once in a while.


With your layer of pebbles/sand and grass,put in a layer of charcoal from your fire(to come..) and you have a handy chemical filter too..as chems bind to the charcoal.

Collect water from a moving source to prevent stagnation and reduce parasites/bacteria and creepy crawlies.

U/V light is a good water purifier so store your water in 'see through' containers.. (try not to accidentally buy UV-proof polythene bags for this)


Your soap ?

Boil Birch leaves and let the 'soup' cool.. OR...

Care of 'Jedi Knight' at..
www.wilderness-survival.net...


Extract grease from animal fat by cutting the fat into small pieces and cooking them in a pot.
Add enough water to the pot to keep the fat from sticking as it cooks.
Cook the fat slowly, stirring frequently.
After the fat is rendered, pour the grease into a container to harden.
Place ashes in a container with a spout near the bottom.
Pour water over the ashes and collect the liquid that drips out of the spout in a separate container.
This liquid is the potash or lye.
Another way to get the lye is to pour the slurry (the mixture of ashes and water) though a straining cloth.
In a cooking pot, mix two parts grease to one part potash.
Place this mixture over a fire and boil it until it thickens.



Edit. add pine needles to make it 'antiseptic'.. but not too much or it'll make your skin sore.

reply to post by Venit
 


Edit again..
Lofty Wiseman's S.A.S Survival guide is pocket size and covers everything.
Clever old sod.


[edit on 13-10-2008 by AGENT_T]



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 12:30 PM
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I am sure there are books.. but I want a resource of a collaborative nature here on ATS. I trust our members to come up with some great references that they either have come up with or maybe had passed down from grandparents etc.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 01:39 PM
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man...i totally tried this like a week ago...didnt get one response..

i must be too much of an a hole for people to read my posts


good idea though, i dont care who gets it started as long as it gets out there



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by AGENT_T

Nice post! But we are talking extreme here, and you left out two things that are needed in the recipe: fire and a pot.

FIRE:
Simple enough to do, although it takes some elbow grease (work). Find a nice stiff stick, preferably slightly bent, maybe 12-18 inches long. Tie a string around both ends, sort of like you are stringing a miniature bow, but in this case leave it a little loose. Take another stick (bone-dry) and loop the string around it, at a perpendicular angle to the first stick. The string should now be tight. Now when you hold the second stick still and move the first stick back and forth, the second stick will spin.

Now find a piece of old wood and plenty of dry leaves. Set the second stick atop the wood and pull back and forth on the first stick while pressing down. This will cause the place where it hits the wood to get hot. Add a few (not too many too fast!) leaves on the spot and keep working it until you see smoke. Then start alternatively blowing on the spot and adding leaves and spinning the stick in place until it catches fire. Dried, dead, fine grass works too, even better than leaves in some cases. Whatever you use, you want it easily ignitable.

It's an acquired talent to be sure, but when you figure it out, it's not too hard to make a nice fire.

A POT:
I mentioned the fire first, because you'll need a fire to make a pot. You can make a type of pottery clay out of red clay, sand, and I like to use limestone powder.

Red clay exists in most areas of the world. Sometimes you will have to dig a bit to find some, but it's absolutely necessary that you do not use any clay that is mixed with soil. The soil will cause your pot to crumble into a muddy mess at worst, and at best, it will make any food or water in it taste 'funny'. Red clay is thick and tough, and when you wet it thoroughly, it turns into a type of thick paste. As a paste, it should be fairly uniform consistency. If not, you'll have to knead it with your hands to make it so.

Sand is obviously easy to find. Again, you want clean sand. If there's a beach nearby, rejoice.

Limestone powder (dust, really) is a bit of work, but I find it strengthens the clay immensely. Simply take some smaller limestone rocks and smash them together over and over until you have collected enough powder.

Mix about 1 part limestone powder, 2 parts sand, and 4-5 parts clay together thoroughly with water, making a nice smooth goopy paste. Form this into whatever shape you want (make sure it is good and thick, as this is low-tech stuff) and let it air-dry for several hours until it is no longer tacky. Carefully set it in the fire and let it 'cook' for an hour or so, check it for cracks, and repeat until the pot has been cooked bone dry and hard.

It takes some practice, but if you have nothing else to do (survival mode and desperately need a pot or pan), the above will get you one. It is actually a bit like making a concrete pot, but the clay makes it much more heat-resistant.

edit to add: reply to post by midnightbrigade

Sorry, I didn't see your thread. Must have been the timing.

TheRedneck


[edit on 13-10-2008 by TheRedneck]



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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Excellent post! this is really what I want. This is extreme!
because.. who knows what the future may hold any situation might occur.. it helps to be prepared to deal with being able to survive with no resource but the earth and nature.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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OK, extreme as extreme gets there will still be stuff lying around, metal pots an all, So your point is ....well, You havn't really got a point.

Sorry to be so critical.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Dar Kuma
OK, extreme as extreme gets there will still be stuff lying around, metal pots an all, So your point is ....well, You havn't really got a point.

Sorry to be so critical.
This thread is not about arguing the likelihood of these circumstances arising but how to deal with them if they do arise.

BTW there are conceivable situations in which there would be no pot as the case is for people who are survivors of something like a plane crash.. or shipwreck were they manage to wash up on an island.. etc.. I am not here to debate the situation in which this is necessary.. You are taking the thread off topic. This thread is about how to deal with a certain situation should it arise.
Please post something that contributes to the thread or move on to a new one that you can contribute to.


Thanks.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 04:13 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by NephraTari
 

another point is that if you wanted to hide and not be located 'cause of metal objects...if this'd be a concern, extreme'd be the best option.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Dar Kuma
I am not arguing over the likelihood, far from it.

OK, I'll contribute, If I am a survivor in a plane crash in the middle of nowhere where do you think all the metalware would go to?

All the spoons, forks and tin trays would just vanish?




You are not contributing to the op you are again arguing whether or not a circumstance for use of the op would arise.
I won't ask you again. You are not on topic.

For the record.. if you wash ashore on a plank of wood and the plane is in the ocean and the island is uninhabited.. there is NO metalware involved in your survival. Now please stop arguing the concept of the situation arising and just contribute a technique or move on.
I am trying to ask nicely.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 04:58 PM
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For the record I dont think you are going to get many answers to your thread, there's not a whole lot you can do when you have nothing.

sorry

I just don't get the thread I guess, The plane slams into the ocean and I drift ashore a deserted island on a plank of wood, What about debris from the plane?

Where did the plank of wood come from.

But if you're not going to answer my points in question, I'll just leave it there, carry on.

[edit on 13-10-2008 by Dar Kuma]



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck

A POT:
I mentioned the fire first, because you'll need a fire to make a pot. You can make a type of pottery clay out of red clay, sand, and I like to use limestone powder.

Red clay exists in most areas of the world. Sometimes you will have to dig a bit to find some, but it's absolutely necessary that you do not use any clay that is mixed with soil. The soil will cause your pot to crumble into a muddy mess at worst, and at best, it will make any food or water in it taste 'funny'. Red clay is thick and tough, and when you wet it thoroughly, it turns into a type of thick paste. As a paste, it should be fairly uniform consistency. If not, you'll have to knead it with your hands to make it so.

Sand is obviously easy to find. Again, you want clean sand. If there's a beach nearby, rejoice.

Limestone powder (dust, really) is a bit of work, but I find it strengthens the clay immensely. Simply take some smaller limestone rocks and smash them together over and over until you have collected enough powder.

Mix about 1 part limestone powder, 2 parts sand, and 4-5 parts clay together thoroughly with water, making a nice smooth goopy paste. Form this into whatever shape you want (make sure it is good and thick, as this is low-tech stuff) and let it air-dry for several hours until it is no longer tacky. Carefully set it in the fire and let it 'cook' for an hour or so, check it for cracks, and repeat until the pot has been cooked bone dry and hard.

It takes some practice, but if you have nothing else to do (survival mode and desperately need a pot or pan), the above will get you one. It is actually a bit like making a concrete pot, but the clay makes it much more heat-resistant.

This is exactly the sort of thing we need in this thread.
Now.. Shelters can be made in similar fashion right? Ancient people used anything from natural rock shelters to Adobe's made of mud and of course TeePee's.
You would need to fashion tools from nature intially.. bones etc.
Time to go do some research.



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 04:08 AM
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you can do most anything from nature...vines for example make good natural rope..you can make a bed to keep you off the ground with decent tree limbs and trunks, it could keep you off the forest or jungle floor and keep ants off of you. simple really, just a lot of material required. make a wooden rectangle frame and middle supports that run long ways. use the vines to strap them together. make for or five support struts and strap it to the "frame" and rest it on the bottoms of the struts...almost like building a house on stilts...keeps you dryer, a little warmer, and off the ground.

you can cook turtles in the shell. Catching a turtle is easy enough. if you dont have a knife, bite the head off (turtles rarely carry disease, but for safetys sake, immediately spit. or use a rock
) drop your turtle directly into a low fire until the shell becomes flakey. you can break it off at that point and vioala. you got cooked turtle.

if you can catch a gator or crock (reccomend they be small. grab them by the tail and haul them out of the water then club them) you can cut the tail off rocks work wonders, and so do the animals teeth, and there is a HUGE amount of meat in there. cut it in to strips and cook it on your fire, over a rack of wet wood sticks. keep the fat separate and dunk it in to some water.. rub the fat on exposed areas of your skin and it will keep the bugs away. keep the eyes for your trip...eat them within a few hours of killing the animal and they give you a big boost of food energy...and very rarely are there any parasites inside the eyes. You should be just fine to eat them raw..but you can boil them too if you have the right equipment.



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by NephraTari

Now you're getting into the real problem with extreme survival. How do you build without tools? How do you make tools without tools? Society today takes many things for granted. For instance, as I look at my shop around me, it is filled with tools, many of them precise to the nearest 1000th of an inch. I can work with wood, metal, plastic, fiberglass, or about any substance I need to use. But to make a tool, I would need to use another tool first. Precision and efficiency come with years of skill bettering each step in the tool-making process.

So back to the original question, a shelter, the first thing to do is to make some sort of temporary shelter to protect you while you create tools to make a permanent one. If you are in a wooded area, two saplings close together can be bent down and lashed together and to sticks driven into the ground (with a rock as a hammer), then covered with large leaves. You would actually want dirty leaves this time, as moist dirt actually creates a poor form of adhesive, especially with porous leaves. If you can find small fallen trees, they will work great for reinforcement; baring that, simple branches, with the limbs left intact in a single plane will make a decent lattice for temporary support.

As to the tools, the best thing to do is learn the fine art (and yes, it is an ART!) of rock-chipping. No one can teach you this; it is something one must learn by doing. The basic precepts are simple enough, though: just find a rock which flakes easily and hold it at a sharp angle while striking it with another rock. You'll make a total mess the first time, but you'll learn how to identify where and how hard and at what angle to hit the rocks to make them flake off the way you want them to, to make a fine point or blade.

Now you can make simple tools, like spears or arrowheads for fishing or hunting, axes for cutting down small trees, or even crude saws for cutting small branches. With these, you can create a permanent shelter (I like the tee-pee design, as it is simple to build and strong), and start devoting your time to improving your tools to make your life even easier.

reply to post by midnightbrigade

I like your style! Vines are great for lashing together things (remember we have no nails or glue... yet) and easy to find. Just remember that, like all things organic, they won't hold forever; they will have to be replaced. I'd say you overdesigned the bed a bit, though. A simple hammock woven from vines and tied between two trees would be much easier, and you can still cover it with grass hay for comfort.

Mmmm, and you like gator tail too! That is awesome and brings back memories of when I could get it around here. That alone deserves a star.

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by NephraTari

As to the tools, the best thing to do is learn the fine art (and yes, it is an ART!) of rock-chipping. No one can teach you this; it is something one must learn by doing. The basic precepts are simple enough, though: just find a rock which flakes easily and hold it at a sharp angle while striking it with another rock. You'll make a total mess the first time, but you'll learn how to identify where and how hard and at what angle to hit the rocks to make them flake off the way you want them to, to make a fine point or blade.



Flintnapping. Definately an art, I would have posted about this, but I'm a terrible flintnapper and was hoping someone who could do it well would mention it. Granted, it doesnt need to be flint, but flint certainly has its advantages. Shapes well, holds its edge, its strong enough to be used as a knife, spear, ive even heard of people fashioning hatchets from flint. Can be done, just takes a good deal of practice to perfect it.

In an "extreme" survival situation, after fire, I would certainly put a knife/axe next on the list of items to create. From this you can make shelter, take and process animals, what am I saying we all know how usefull a knife is.

In regards to a different post, someone mentioned using vines as rope. I have no idea if this would work or not, never worked with vines. However, taking fresh green bark strips from saplings (I like popular) then braiding it and drying it makes a fine rope.



posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 12:59 PM
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Unless you're airtraveling or in in a courthouse or anywhere that leathermans are prohibited, it'd be a descent tool to start with if sitx came up suddenly...they are concealable...if you haven't already, study the tom brown's guide to wilderness survival, & also study the homeless...the key is simple resourcefulness.



posted on Oct, 16 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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Ovens can be made easy . adobe bricks morter together with adobe into a dome with a small opening at top and a large one in front plaster with adobe inside and out let dry build several small fires you have a horno brick oven . Some native people use square rocks chipped square them mortered with a adobe mix .

there are various mixes for this clay + sand + straw or clay + sand .

As a above poster said pots from clay . The mixture I learned was the same for hornos but with the consistency of modeling clay

Search for horno here is one www.primitiveways.com...

A even quicker way to cook / bake food . get small game clean it wrap a clay mixture around it make the mixture the texture of modeling clay . toss in fire coals 1-2 hrs time baked fish rabbit ect . This one people will smell fire but wont smell food cooking .

sapling cut debarked shaped = bow plant fibers from cedar juniper yucca twisted = bow string or cord or clothes string for snares or traps .

reeds or small shoots = arrows

yucca leaves = soap crush with water soapy mixture .

yucca leaves cat tails woven = baskets shoes ect

if you can weave the you can weave a open basket shaped like a vase 1 " squares or about place in stream near a pond out let making the water go threw it splash around stream and walk towards it catch fish no pole hooks a little practice with it and placement you can do quite well

if you got rocks with breaking them against each other and knapping = knife arrow head or axe head or hoe . had great success with every thing but this it takes heaps o practice

thought these were cool when i was shown them but now it may have a real purpose

Grandpaw always told me the difference between a Indian fire and a White man fire is Indian saves wood builds small fire gets up close White man builds BIG fire and gets way back .

These are few cents worth of info from the family tree .

[edit on 16-10-2008 by Lostinthedarkness]



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 10:07 AM
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How to cut down and shape a tree if your going way back to total pre metal tool basics. This works, have used it myself when 'trying stuff out'.

Firstly we need to source out some flint bearing rocks. Chalky ground or rivers are great places to find flint in my experience. Find a good ostrich egg sized piece. Get yourself a really hard stone, and smack it real hard against it, or use the floor. The flint will shatter, leaving you shards that will form the basis of tools. Now, sit and fashion out a weapon/tool.

With this 'hand axe' go to a birch tree and strip off the bark. Underneath is a fibrous layer. Take as much as you need. Sit and roll/weave it into twine tying both ends together when done. Now, find a branch, a big strong branch, cut into it at one end, and place in your stone axe head. use the birch string to wrap around the head. You now have a crude axe.

Taking the left over flint pieces and birch fibre, start a fire by good old fashioned flint strikes. get a good blaze going at your camp. Now, using your hand axe, carve out a hollow wedge in one side of your selected tree, make it big enough and then set the tree on fire. Use the axe at the other side to further weaken the tree.

Down it comes. Use what ever means needed to remove branches and make a 'make do' shelter. With your axe and shelter done, go off and find some wild food. Make a deer trap by digging a deep pit, use your axe to wittle down some thing branches into stakes and place them in the bottom. Camouflage your pit and then wait. Do make sure though your pits in a place deer cross through or trust as a safe area. When deer falls in, club it to death with your axe.

Food, axe, fire, shelter. Use flint pieces to skin and cut up your deer. Use the fire to cook it. As for water? well, to be honest, totally back to basic means drinking whats available. In europe or other high rainfall areas, gather up big leaves and weave a rain catcher for immediate needs, and start scouring the land for soft stone to beat into shape as a pot to boil water in. A stone pot actually works wonders for keeping said boiled water hot for ages too, a a second flat stone can be utilised as a shelf in your fire to use as a baking tray to cook things with indirect heat.


Stone age man must of been well brainy to come up with some of the things he did.



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