Zeitgeist Addendum - Theosophy, Socialism, and The new NWO

interesting symbolism in Zeitgeists 2

Timing is everything. On September 29, the United States stock market crashed, falling 777 points. Just in time for the fallout, a worldwide financial collapse, the movie Zeitgeist Addendum was released. The film, right on cue, explains the obvious, how a flawed financial system failed, and how it exploited the hard work, savings and investments of all of those that lost their money to this system. It simultaneously heaps blame on free markets and religion, while calling for a global shift in consciousness.

This new paradigm is of course an old paradigm. It’s an open call for socialism. One need look no further than Karl Marx to see the parallels between Zeitgeist Addendum’s linking a distaste for free markets and religion. This should set off some rather loud alarm bells in the minds of patriotic and freedom loving Americans.

Most of those that have been actively observing the global elite have likewise understand that a pre-planned financial crash has been in the works for some time. Nickolas Sarozky president of the EU says he wants a new global economic system to rise out of the ashes of this crash which, in his own words is expressed as a "new world.” order.

Zeitgeist Addendum seems to further the cause for this New World Order, neo-socialist paradigm. With America politicians and representatives ignoring the masses and passing off the debt of banks on to the general public, one can see the seeds of new world socialism emerging right here in America. It’s no coincidence that just as the New World Order beings implementing marxist thought in so called free countries, Zeitgeist Addendum shows up to incite the masses in a global call for marxism.

If one should prefer to save 2 hours and skip watching Zeitgeist Addendum, its proposals are clearly spelled out in a relatively unknown book entitled “The Externalization of the Hierarchy” written by Alice Bailey. Actually Bailey claimed to have channeled an “Ascended Master” known as “the Tibetan” or Djwhal Khul who penned the book through her.

Bailey was also the founder of the theosophical Lucifer Trust (later changed to Lucis Trust). Please note, that the solution to the faltering global economy offered by Zeitgeist Addendum is "The Venus Project." Venus, also known as the morning star is synonymous with the term Lucifer.

Some of the highlights from Bailey’s The Externalization of the Heirarchy include the following:

"The problem of money will have to be faced; the problem of the distribution of wealth - whether natural or human - will need careful handling and a compromise reached between those nations which possess unlimited resources and those who have few or none; the problem of the varying forms of national government must be faced with courage and insight; the restoration - psychological, spiritual and physical - of mankind must constitute a primary responsibility. The sense of security must be put on a firm basis - the basis of right relationship, and not the basis of force. Men must feel secure because they are seeking to develop international goodwill and can trust each other, and are not therefore dependent upon the strength of their armies and fleets."

For those that have seen Zeitgeist Addendum, this should sound familiar, as it is the basis for the
entire film.

Bailey’s EOTH also includes specifics as to the nature of the New World Order and the following are just some of the links between Bailey’s work and Zeitgeist Addendum:

“The new world order will recognize that the produce of the world, the natural resources of the planet and its riches, belong to no one nation but should be shared by all. There will be no nations under the category "haves" and others under the opposite category. A fair and properly organized distribution of the wheat, the oil and the mineral wealth of the world will be developed, based upon the needs of each nation, upon its own internal resources and the requirements of its people. All this will be worked out in relation to the whole.”

“The new world order will be founded on the recognition that all men are equal in origin and goal but that all are at differing stages of evolutionary development; that personal integrity, intelligence, vision and experience, plus a marked goodwill, should indicate leadership. The domination of the proletariat over the aristocracy and bourgeoisie, as in Russia, or the domination of an entrenched aristocracy over the proletariat and middle classes, as has been until lately the case in Great Britain, must disappear. The control of labor by capital or the control of capital by labor must also go.”

“In the new world order, the governing body in any nation should be composed of those who work for the greatest good of the greatest number and who at the same time offer opportunity to all, seeing to it that the individual is left free. Today the men of vision are achieving recognition, thus making possible a right choice of leaders. It was not possible until this century.”

“The new world order will be founded on an active sense of responsibility. The rule will be "all for one and one for all." This attitude among nations will have to be developed. It is not yet present.”


“In the preparatory period for the new world order there will be a steady and regulated disarmament. It will not be optional. No nation will be permitted to produce and organize any equipment for destructive purposes or to infringe the security of any other nation. One of the first tasks of any future peace conference will be to regulate this matter and gradually see to the disarming of the nations.”

[edit on 13-10-2008 by Amenti]

...continuing

“These are the simple and general premises upon which the new world order must begin its work. These preliminary stages must be kept fluid and experimental; the vision of possibility must never be lost, and the foundations must be preserved inviolate, but the intermediate processes and the experimentations must be carried forward by men who, having the best interests of the whole at heart, can change the detail of organization whilst preserving the life of the organism.”

One should first take into consideration the many similarities between Bailey and the marxist propaganda espoused in Zeitgeist Addendum. It is then a much simpler task to view the film’s open call for global socialism as one and the same as the New World Theosophical religious and social order being so aptly adhered to by the high level occultists that are, in fact the global elite.
In doing so, the following information should come as no shock and simply, further proof of collusion between two seemingly opposite groups. As you can see, they are no more opposite than Republican and Democrat. Outwardly so yes, but certainly behind the scenes both are controlled by the same invisible hand.

The Venus Project which has already in name been linked to Lucifer, is obviously a socialist movement. Founded by Jacque Fresco, upon first glance it may appear similar to one of the multitude of ill fated hippy communes of the 1960’s. But upon further study, it too is rooted in the same NWO/Occult/Theosophical belief structure.

One of the basic premises of The Venus Project is that we work towards having all of the Earth's resources as the common heritage of all the world's people. Anything less will simply result in a continuation of the same catalog of problems inherent in the present system.”

This is exactly what Bailey wrote of in The Externalization of the Hierarchy. The links between The Venus Project and the essence of Secret Societies does however run even deeper than the call for a communistic sharing of world resources.

33rd degree masonic author Manley P Hall said of America’s link to the new Atlantis, “The New Atlantis sets forth an ideal government of the earth. It foretells that day when in the midst of men there shall rise up a vast institution composed of the philosophic elect -- an order of illumined men banded together for the purpose of investigating the laws of life and the mysteries of the universe … The age of boundaries is closing, and we are approaching a nobler era when nations shall be no more; when the lines of race and caste shall be wiped out; when the whole earth shall be under one order, one government, one administrative body." -Manly P Hall "Lectures on
Ancient Philosophy," published by the Philosophical Research Society Inc, Los Angeles (1970)”

Hall, along side of Rosicrucians like Francis Bacon, clearly defined the New World Order’s drive to recreate Atlantis, and this theme clearly “resurfaces” in Fresco’s “architecture”, specifically in his “Circular City”. (pictured on the right)


The Circular City image (above) is one that is notably comparable to artistic visions of Atlantis based upon Plato’s description of the sunken city (below).



Another warning sign of Fresco’s New World Order mentality is
his desire to see technology steering mankind’s destiny. Many
patriots shiver at the idea of biometric identification, specifically
the idea of implantable microchips that could be used to track and
control humans in ways up until recently only envisioned in the
Bible. Fresco’s vision for the future of humanity goes well beyond
that of a simple microchip implant. He foresees humanity needing
to merge with machine or else risk de-evolution.

“When biological technology becomes further advanced, human beings as we know them, will become a modified species. If we as human beings fail to include the possibility of this development in our overall, social evolution we will witness the decline of our species” -Jacque Fresco The Best that Money Can’t buy, Beyond Politics, Poverty, & War.

These are not mere coincidences. While seemingly “revolutionary” in thought, Fresco and his school of thought as espoused by the Zeitgeist vision of rebellion against the system are part and parcel of the same social upheaval being called for, not by humanitarians, but by those that have
been planning for the New World Order from it’s earliest stages.

It should also be noted that Zeitgeist Addendum begins and ends with speaking from Krisnamurti who was raised from boyhood by the Theosophical Society to be a "world teacher". Even though he broke from the group after declining to be the messiah he maintained a friendly relationship by most accounts.

This is not unlike others within the “Truth Movement” such as Michael Tsarion, who openly admits he was, from an early age taught by theosophist if not raised by them. his connections to the group are quite interesting.

This peculiar affinity with the occult is nothing out of the ordinary with Zeitgeist. Part 1 of the initial Zeitgeist film was based on the work of a man that loved theosophy so much he apprently named himself Jordan Maxwell after Helena Blavatsky's "Jordanus Maximus". (see also Debunking Jordan Maxwell)

Before discounting the political power of Theosophy and its desire to infiltrate the truth seekers...

continuing...

Before discounting the political power of Theosophy and its desire to infiltrate the truth seekers you need to understand its concept of seed groups. These groups were sent forth to work in stealth so as to be nurtured without competition from those that would see them for what they truly are. When one wonders how or why anyone offering truth about the occult could in fact be
part of the New World Order, they need look no further than Alice Bailey.

One of the most specific goals of the theosophist, as dictated in The Externalization of the Hierarchy is the following:

“The education of the advanced thinkers, of the aspirants and world disciples in applied knowledge, expressed wisdom and occult understanding. This group synthesizes all that is available in the other two groups and thus forms the nucleus of the Kingdom of God, of the fifth kingdom which is so rapidly coming into being.”

According to the Theosophy, starting with it’s founder Blavatsky, god is really Lucifer. This is luciferian theology, not Christian doctrine.

“The devil is now called Darkness by the Church, whereas, in the Bible he is called the "Son of God", the bright star of the early morning, Lucifer. There is a whole philosophy of dogmatic craft in the reason why the first Archangel, who sprang from the depths of Chaos, was called Lux (Lucifer), the "Luminous Son of the Morning," or man- vantaric Dawn. He was transformed by the Church into Lucifer or Satan, because he is higher and older than Jehovah, and had to be sacrificed to the new dogma. -Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine

Zeitgeist Addendum held over one central theme from its predecessor, that Jesus was and is just another name for all of the other gods of antiquity. Unfortunately in Zeitgeist’s extensive reference material webpage and/or reference book there is nothing that specifically backs up any of these claims.
If you can prove the claims in Part 1 of
Zeitgeist, by all means follow the links and win yourself some money.
www.kingdavid8.com...
zeitgeistchallenge.com...

There is actually a good reason why theosophy wants to particularly discredit this on particular religion this youtube video by a non-christian sums it up nicely.


It should be noted that any critical thinker can’t help but to agree with many of the practical points and issues raised in the Zeitgeist Addendum. It is however, so very important to be cautious about who we as truth seekers run to while trying to seek understanding in these confusing times.

The key to understanding why the New World Order has chosen to expose itself lies in Bailey’s Externalization of the Heirarchy.

“The new world order must be appropriate to a world which has passed through a destructive crisis and to a humanity which is badly shattered by the experience. The new world order must lay the foundation for a future world order which will be possible only after a time of recovery, of reconstruction, and of rebuilding.”

You know about Bohemian Grove. You know the signs and symbols that prove the elitists working towards a New World Order are part of a luciferian death cult. Now you need to ask yourself why those working to expose the New World Order are also linked to the same luciferian and occult beliefs.

The New World Order seems to have emerged to play the scapegoat for the order that will follow it. This second world order is the Theosophists’ Kingdom of God. Blavatsky told us who their god is. It is Lucifer. And how better a way to have a luciferian antichrist arrive on the scene, to be taken seriously by all as he crushes the New World Order, seemingly rescuing all of humanity
from the clutches of its tyrannical all seeing eye.

Some more interesting articles on Zeitgeist 2 Addendum

Zeitgeist 2 propagandizing natural law!!
forum.prisonplanet.com...

Zeitgeist Addendum = Steaming Pile of NWO Propaganda
www.dailypaul.com...

Alex Jones Tv:Zeitgeist Addendum"The Review"1/3
www.youtube.com...

My take on Zeitgeist: Addendum and The Venus Project.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Although I do not agree with much of what you said, I have to give you a few of these for the time and effort you put into this thread. I look forward to revisiting it when I wake up

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
Although I do not agree with much of what you said, I have to give you a few of these

for the time and effort you put into this thread. I look forward to revisiting it when I wake up

Thanks.
as you know its kinda tricky prepping things for ATS.
glad you noticed

Outstanding job Amenti. Flagged.

You’ve connected most of the dots I was picking up on in the original and the addendum. So much of what is suggested just doesn’t make sense. They claim that all this change is voluntary, but we all know that’s impossible. There are people who won’t want to change, and that means blood in the streets. It’s just an attempt at a new face on the same old socialist utopian tyranny.

Nice stuff, I seen the agenda right away. It is somewhat surprising to me that so many people feel for it on a forum who's motto is to "deny ignorance".

I've seen the same agenda in many different forms on these forums. I've seen it as "the aliens will give us technology", and then they describe a socialist society.

The attack on Christianity is not just what we see today, nor is the attack on free markets. It's the same MO all the time. Infiltrate, manipulate, attack the manipulations as being what it's about.

People took Jesus, turned him into a false idol(image), people worship the image, do bad things. Then the religion is attacked for the bad things done, and the attacks are always what the false idols worshipers do. Things opposite of what Jesus said. Then in comes the naysayers, who point out the wrong things done(which they are right about) and then instead of pointing out the manipulation, say it's all mind control, and offer "the solution".

Same thing with free markets, free trade and economics now. So many things which go against free market principles have been done and cause problems. Such as corporations getting regulations and patents that crush competition, managed trade agreements where certain companies carry out roles and so on. Bad things happen as a result, and all the while free markets and free trade are attacked by the naysayers, who then offer "the solution".

People against the constitution because they think it's what gave us what we had today, a huge government and limited rights. But if you understand the constitution, you know it's the opposite in principle.

If you come out and try to show people the difference between the religion about Jesus(do evil, and it's ok) and the religion of Jesus(walk the path), and you are labeled as crazy, by both "sides". Try to come out and show people how we have not been under free markets and trade, and how the regulations are against it, and they say you are "mind controlled" and like to be a slave.

And TPTB count on people who will follow the symbolism and false idols. And so far, they fall for it hook, line and sinker every time.

[edit on 13-10-2008 by badmedia]

I did a video basically reading this post for all of you like me that dont like all the reading.

Google Video Link

I'm pretty sure that what Blavatsky was trying to say is that Lucifer was the previous sun-god, "star of the early morning" and that Christianity condemned him, so he wasn't originally considered evil. Perhaps Christianity is the one that is evil? It is the only religion of which its tenets include recruiting as many as you can. Kind of like taking over the world. And think about how corrupt the church was back in medieval times. Or even now? Note that Occult does not mean "evil", it just means "hidden knowledge"

However, I do agree that Zeitgeist 2 is NWO propaganda. Although it is informative, it is the way that it presents the information that causes me to believe this.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by italkyoulisten]

Wow, I have to give you props for spending so much time writing this up but I'm sorry to say that you're sadly mistaken about the Venus Project. I find many of your points are unfounded and am unwilling to read this in-depth, so excuse me for not knowing much about what you said. But please, you make points of the Venus Project trying to implement robotics with humans in a manner that would limit us and control us, but listening to Jaque Fresco, you can hear him clearly state that robotics and technology are designed completely to move us forward and remove things we don't need, such as tedious work, but they should never affect our privacy or limit our ability, for there's absolutely no need for that in such a society. Also I find it extremely hard to see this as a NWO idea for society because it does away with higher-ups, no one is more important than anyone else. Everyone works as an individual and works for the better of others, how in this are there people pulling the strings? If anything is against our will, this society encourages the power of the individual, and surely will encourage people to rise against and take initiative to change things for the best. I simply think you guys are mistaken and are too skeptical to anything suggesting major change.

I respect the fact that you're thinking for yourself and did a lot of work to put this together. I don't think Peter, Roxanne or Mr Fresco had any mind to work for the NWO, however. Also I think the movement would be a good thing. Thanks for the info though, Amenti. I'm going to try and get my hands on that book. I've spoken to Roxanne (the woman from The Venus Project) after reading a lot of criticisms and conspiracies related to Z. Addendum, she said that she didn't like to read all of the negative stuff written about the project that she's dedicated 22 years of her life to (and Fresco 33, I think). She said that they got all of their money through means unrelated to the project (whether that's selling out to the man or frying burgers one can only speculate). On top of that, she says that people should read the free documentation available at thezeitgeistmovement.com... which explains their project more clearly. She also mentioned that her website for the venus project has a store for books which contain a lot more information, but didn't stress that I should spend money on it...

So it's really hard to tell who to believe. People with similar ideas dont often have the same intentions.

Just another trip, eh?

[edit on 3-11-2008 by illuminaticus]

reply to post by illuminaticus


Let us not tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories? Isn't that what you are basically saying when you say they don't like to read all the negative stuff?

The "resource based" system as being not a monetary system is a lie. The fact of the matter is, the only thing that gives money it's value is the resources they represent. By giving control over the resources to an elite group who decides how to best manage those resources, you are in fact giving up way more control than the scam the federal reserve is.

The federal reserve creates money which devalues the currency and hurts all the people. When they create this money, what do they buy? Resources and such. It is a leech of the elite on the resources.

To give up complete control of the resources is to just give them everything, rather than what they steal. It is not a solution, it is a continuation of the power pyramid scheme that we already have in this world.

What you have to do is flip the pyramid upside down, where the people are at the top, and the services are at the bottom, made to serve the people. This means very limited government and regulations with the people having the most control over their lives. Without economic freedom, which does not exist in the current system or the venus project system you will not have any other freedoms, only privileges. Which can be taken away.

Tell me, how do you think the NWO will be sold? Do you really think they are going to sell it as being a bad thing? Have the things that have happened not taught people anything? It's not going to come out as being the "We're going to take control of the resources and turn you into a slave by deciding how much resources you get system". It WILL be sold as being a good system that gets rid of corruption and provides all the services people need.

But the entire game is just to get you to give up the control. To hand it over to them by your own free will. Once that control is given, then it's just a matter of changing their mind on what to do. And of course, as history has shown all they have to do is say - It's for the best interest of society. Hello Patriot Act?

Wake up instead of just changing dreams. Realize you are your own authority, and quit giving other people control over your life and then wondering why you get screwed.

@badmedia

What I meant when saying "he said that she didn't like to read all of the negative stuff written about the project" was that it offended her personally to hear such things. She didn't advise that I stop reading the critiques. Sure, it's not impossible that that she is a part of NWO/Illuminati, but it's more likely that she was manipulated by them, and even more likely than that she and Fresco are just ordinary people with a good idea. This doesn't rule out any of the above (hell, what are the chances that the universe would be birthed from a singularity and eventually after billions of years of bouncing molecules place you in front of your computer right now?)

Either everyone is evil, no one is evil, or something in between.

I love it when Americans start getting their knickers in a knot over socialism, like it's some horrific bad thing. Look at the socialist countries in Europe - higher standards of living, greater freedom of the press, welfare that works, longer life expectancy, free healthcare. People in the US seem to be scared of socialism because they think of scary cold-war era Russia. It makes no sense at all.

And where the hell does Atlantis come into this? It was an allegory. That's it. It never existed. sheesh. No wonder people laugh at conspiracy theorists. This stuff is hilarious.

Originally posted by dave420
I love it when Americans start getting their knickers in a knot over socialism, like it's some horrific bad thing. Look at the socialist countries in Europe - higher standards of living, greater freedom of the press, welfare that works, longer life expectancy, free healthcare. People in the US seem to be scared of socialism because they think of scary cold-war era Russia. It makes no sense at all.

And where the hell does Atlantis come into this? It was an allegory. That's it. It never existed. sheesh. No wonder people laugh at conspiracy theorists. This stuff is hilarious.

There is no such thing as "free" healthcare. It's a myth. You are going to pay for it one way or another. It's the equivalent of me taking $30 out of your pocket, giving you $20 back and saying I'm giving you free money.

I have great healthcare personally. My work pays for it and my family.

And my reason for being against socialism has not a thing to do with Russia. What a stupid assumption on your part. It has to do with ME being allowed to CHOOSE for myself what I think is best for ME.

Freedom of the press has nothing to do with socialism or whatever. Another dumb assumption on your part. As if freedom of the press can only exist in a socialist country? Give me a break.

Excuse me for not thinking a bunch of lawyers and power seeking people are the best suited to make decisions about my life. Yes, I must be dumb and should be laughed at.

reply to post by badmedia


Of course there is no such thing as free healthcare. I don't know why people get so caught up in the ridiculous "but it's not free!" thing. Of course it's not free.

What it is, though, is the ability to go to hospital and not have to pay anything. It's all taken care of. That means old, young, rich, poor - they all get the healthcare they need, not just that which they can pay for out of pocket. The burden is shared by everyone, which is kind of what 'society' implies should happen.

You are lucky that you have great healthcare, even though the standard of healthcare in the US is lower than in these socialist countries, but I guess you will gloss over that. However if you lost your job, you and your family would be screwed. Or if you needed a procedure not covered, and you had to pay for it. Or if you or someone in your family has a pre-existing condition and won't be covered. All those questions are completely moot with universal healthcare.

And obviously socialism doesn't directly affect the freedom of the press, but then why is everyone so scared of 'losing their freedoms to socialism'? My example highlighted that the cornerstone of freedom - that of the press and freedom of speech - are unhindered, even blooming, in socialist countries.

And yes, you kind of deserve to be laughed at. You seem to have a problem with something you don't understand.

reply to post by dave420


Ok, I think you have to look at the size of things when talking about this. Because I am against socalism, does not mean I am against people getting healthcare, or that I want people to be homeless. That is a common myth put out by people who support socialism. They act as if it is the only system that allows such things, which is false.

When you do these things on a local and community level it's 1 thing. When you do it on a national or world scale, it's totally different. Centralization is what I am against. I am in favor of decentralization. And I will explain why, and I will explain why centralization kills freedom.

I'm going to use the US for the example. In the US we have different levels of government. We have the federal, the state and the city/county. Lets put in socialism at federal level. You have 1 program for the entire country. Everyone is forced to go by that 1 system. We have elections every 4 years. That means you will be forced to that 1 system for that entire time, and it takes ALOT to get change. When that 1 system does bad, then everyone suffers. If a bad healthcare plan is passed, everyone suffers. Because it is centralized, there are no examples of better programs or ideas to try that work. Corruption only needs to be done at the highest level, and only a small amount of it punishes and takes from everyone.

Decentralize the issue to where you have 50 state programs. Immediately things are different. You now vote every 2 years. There are 50 programs working to be the best. Each program is able to try new things, which means you are able to try the most amount of changes and try things out for improvements. When something works in 1 program, then the other 49 programs can quickly and easily adopt that program. If the program is going badly, you have 49 other programs you can look at and try. If the state you live in does things in a way you don't like, you have 49 other states you can move too. Your 1 vote makes up a larger % of the entire vote, which means you have more power in what happens in your life. Corruption only affects the 1 program, it would take much more corruption to corrupt the entire country, and people have places of refuge, and it's a whole lot easier to get rid of state people, California got rid of a bad governor, imagine trying to do that on a federal scale.

If you decentralize things to just the communities, then you have 1000's of programs, with all the benefits of the above, and more abundant options and choices. You can easily run to be a councilman in your local community. If a community does things in a way you don't like, 1000's of options available. It would take huge amounts of corruption to corrupt an entire country and steal from that country. And your 1 vote on the local elections means a good bit. Especially in small towns, which was the original attraction to them for many people.

Now, socialism on a community level I do not have a problem with. I have options, I have power, and I have the freedom and means to find something that I like and works for me, and when changes need to be made, I only have to convince a small amount of people. Not an entire country. Little old me, just another individual can make a big difference, without having to devote my life to the cause.

So, you set up a very limited federal government. Who's main priority and job is to protect the most precious rights. Then when a city or town infringes on those basic rights, the federal government comes in and protects that individuals rights. The civil rights movement is a clear case of when it is the job of the federal government to step in. Peoples rights were being denied. It is not the job of the federal government to take over things, and try to manage peoples lives as you get with centralization. And then the individual states also keep a limited government that protects more rights they think should be protected. With the power then at the community level, and the individuals.

Centralization means power to the elite(those who do the managing of resources/planning). Decentralization means power to the people. I support giving the power to the people. Or if you like imagery, turning the pyramid upside down.

That is why I am against socalism, facism, communism and all those kinds of governments. Because they are all centralized power. The constitution of the US is the only document and government in the world that decentralized power and gave the power to the people. It does exactly what I just explained. Sorry, but I won't be giving that up.

And btw, that is just a quick example. There are many other factors as well. When all the issues are centralized, you have to vote for 1 person and 100 issues. You have to settle for the lesser of 2 evils because there are so many issues. Do you go with the guy that has good foreign policy, or the guy with good domestic policy? And what of allt he seperate issues between them? You are forced to vote for things in groups. A further problem of centralization.

But when the government is limited, and the jobs of those people is limited, then you only vote on the very specific issues for them. As you don't have the domestic issues as part of the election, you mostly vote for the guy with good foriegn policy. And on the state and local elections, you vote for the guys with good domestic policies.

You give away control over an issue to someone like Clinton or Obama, who are more socialist. It all sounds good and you think they will do a good job. Then what happens next? GWB is elected(or stole it, which ever you believe) and suddenly this person now has complete control of the issue. Which you would probably have never given to him in the first place. But since you already gave it away, you're screwed and it will take an act of "god" to get that control back.

Again, this is how centralization kills freedom. Laugh at that.

reply to post by badmedia


free healthcare is not a myth. go and look to europe. in austria we do have free healtcare.
and socialism is not a bad thing at all, americans just know nothing about it.
socialism enabled for me going to visit highscool for free. and i was very thankful because i came from a poor family.
in my country the venus project is very popular and many people are talking about it.
and it is true that in europe secularism is a very important thing, we fear the ambitions of the roman catholics to go back to middle age, same goes for the islam. the right wingers are using religion nowadays to promote their nationalistic ideology and they do it by mongering hatred against muslims. this happened by influence from the, in austria called "big brother", usa. we austrians are very concerned about the "american culture of politics" coming to us nowadays.
the venus project is totally unreligious and it is absolutely free from ideology. and it is the only attempt to bring up solutions. of corse this solutions have to be technically and scientific and therefore it is a logical consequence to call for a new system to distribute the ressources and of corse it cant be capitalism because that does not work for the benefit of all people, in fact it does not work at all.
i think the fear of a moneyless society lies in the fear of being nothing special, just as equal as all the others. and the religios people: they do not understand how they are being used. a ressource based economy would free religios people from the influence of politics on their beleive systems.

sorry for my bad english, have a nice life !

I see we now have marxism without a rrevolutionary vanguard but with capitalism (slightly ill at present) and no dictatorship of the proletariat??

My friend that is complete bunk. try reading the communist manifesto and calm down