It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Catholic Bashing

page: 1
0
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 10:44 PM
link   
Of all the religions in the world, be it Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu any of the ‘Christian’ denominations or whatever, none seem to be surrounded by so much secrecy, controversy or more importantly conspiracy than the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church comes across as the most public ‘secret society’ in history.
There must be something to the stories for so much speculation and discussion to be going on. I will not at this time go into all the theories, as I am sure we have heard them all before.
For those that do not get it, this is not a Catholic bashing thread, even though I have been accused of it many times in the past ( and am sure I will be again now
Erikd ) but the reality is, that I am genuienly curious and find this forum filled with knowledge from all walks of life and like to see differing view points on the matter.
The reason for this thread is to ask what it is about the Catholic Church that creates such drastic accusations and stirs so many emotions and why is there Catholic Bashing at all if there is nothing going on or nothing to hide?




posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 11:01 PM
link   
Well, Catholicism, much like the Masons, is a rich and powerful organization. It has been my observation that anything that wields a lot of power tends to attract other group's ire.

[edit on 12-10-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 11:09 PM
link   
reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 


You're correct there, a lot of the things people say about catholics are true-many more are false.

Catholics aren't crazy, in fact I find them to be some of the most accepting christians I've ever met. My girlfriend's priest is a great friend of mine and he never tries to convert me or anything of the sort.
Sure catholicism is rich, sure the Vatican bank is the largest in the world. I'm positive there is some corruption and there are some shady deals made but in the lower levels, and even some of the higher levels the intentions seem to be good. The people who run this church ARE human, unless you're a reptillian believer which I wont even argue about, and we have to remember that as human they have flaws.

I think much of the catholic bashing is simply from lack of understanding, they dont worship saints or mary ect. I've never heard a fire and brimstone mass, and I doubt I ever will. Most masses I've heard are about forgiveness and acceptance; kindness and love.



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 11:12 PM
link   
Mr.shot, well, given that my dad was Roman Catholic, I tend to defend them a bit. Now, that is not to say that I necessarily agree with their thelogy... However, I don't disagree with all of it, either.

It seems to me that Catholics, Masons and Mormons tend to be convenient scapegoats for what is currently happening in this world. In the meantime, the REAL perpetrators tend to be overlooked.



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 11:20 PM
link   
Agreed. I'm not a catholic, nor am I exactly a christian. I belive in a lot of different things and I believe less of what I believe actually matters. But after going to catholic mass and learning about it I understand it a bit more and feel compelled to recognize that around other people.



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 11:34 PM
link   
reply to post by VIKINGANT
 


I agree with Speakeroftruth in that they are the most powerful and wealthy religion out there, so naturally they draw the most attention. I am sure that if Scientology for example, was to surpass them in wealth and influence, that Scientology would be the new target.

Also when an organization is as large as the Catholic church and they tell everyone that they need to follow their rules or else they will be damned to hell for all of eternity, they will also face some scrutiny. People will be much quicker to point out any hypocrisy they see and question anything that they hide from the public.

It is mainly an issue with the size and power of the organization.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 12:15 AM
link   
You guys are kidding right?? What about the inquisition? What about the conquest of south america? What about the catholic school system that was the instrument of the destruction of many native canadian families and communities? What about the many serial predators that the catholics' hid amongst the ranks of priests? I mean if you're gonna ask why people hate catholicism, you have to mention their bloody war mongering past!!!!!!! Hello???

Edited to add: I was baptized catholic, my parents were both raised catholic and their families. But I have wholly rejected this religion because of its' undeniably criminal history.

[edit on 13-10-2008 by red_leader]



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 12:23 AM
link   
I believe that one of the main reasons that the Catholic Church seems to be the focus of conspiracy theories and disdain is that they are a unified, megalithic entity with a traceable history and a hierarchy.

If, for example, there was one, singular protestant church with a specific hierarchy and a 2000 year history there would likely be a plethora of theories about that church.

The size, history and ease of identification of the Catholic Church makes it more attractive to focus on for those who are looking to find a conspiracy. The fact that there are rituals, orders and what may appear to be bizarre practices from outsiders (such as the Real Presence) doesn't help things.

Another problem is that when a Catholic performs an act that is reprehensible he is labeled (often correctly) a Catholic. When a member of another denomination commits a similar act they are most often labeled as a member of a geographically specific local church. Therefore when Craig, a Catholic in Norway commits a crime he is part of the same entity as Bob in the US. When Tony, a Baptist in Texas commits a crime he is a member of the First Baptist Church of Houston.

Lastly, the Catholic Church believes (as does most other religions) that they are the true Deposit of Faith. This is by nature an exclusionary belief. With the exception of pronouncing this loudly and often, the modern Church doesn't offer vitriol towards other religions. There are many, many denominations that publicly, loudly and with great fervor denounce the errors that they believe exist in the Catholic Church. They believe (truly believe) that the CC is the Whore of Babylon and the Anti-Christ will be from the Vatican.

Although you see this often, you don't see the reciprocal.


Eric



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 12:24 AM
link   
I think because they are so hereirarchal... more so than any other religion I can think of... essentially set up like an empire with regions and countries even if that isn't their overt aim.

That plus the history of actually being tied in with governments, and their willingness to speak publically on topics that most other religions pretend don't exist, like aliens... I think it lends credence to the idea that they m ust know something, or have some kind of inside information.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 12:59 AM
link   
reply to post by red_leader
 


i have to agree with red_leader, i was also baptized and brought up a roman catholic. i was forced to go to mass on sundays, confession on saturdays etc. i also have an uncle and cousin that are priests and an aunt thats a nun. but as soon as i was able and had done a lot of reading about the church's history i had to reject it. i believe that. the same as other societies/religions. the individual members are in the most good people who do try to help others and live a christian life. the historical church has lots hidden, thats why theres only 4 gospels in the bible, the ones that didn't toe the party line being conveniently put aside. my family members who are part of this personally disagree with a lot of what's doctrine, but they have this faith in god and jesus that makes them see past these. as for the pedophile priests, i'd say these men were pedophiles first who saw a chance to use the priesthood to fulfill their sick fantasies, the church then hid these men the same as many other groups would have done no, one wants to admit to those kind of things going on. my cousin being one of those abused in the seminary (of which he's written a book about ' The Pyjama Party')recieved death threats and boxes put under his car with a call saying it was a bomb, from supposedly christian people. somewhere up the hierarchy is where the church has gone wrong. the atrocities that have happened in the past,as stated in the above post , are open and cant be denied so what else is there that we dont know about.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 05:12 AM
link   
reply to post by EricD
 


Thanks Eric,
That was very well put, and in many ways sums up the resentment for want of a beter word that people have towards the church.
I also feel that asmeone2 has a point in that not only is there much that the church has knowledge of that we are not aware, but when questioned on it, we are diverted from the point, yet the 'accusation' is not directly denied.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 05:23 AM
link   
Catholic Bashing?Is it that time of the year already?I thought it was still grouse season.
Catholics have always intruiged me.For one thing my Mam hated them but then alot of my mates were Catho's.I don't know I've still got to get around to fully checking out the Vatican /Jesiut conspiracy theories.It's a religion that seems to have a dark undertone and alot of secrets.Then again I went to Catholic wedding in Antrim a couple of years back and it was the loveliest wedding ceremony I've seen.In saying that I'm a big Father Ted fan and that comedy programme exposes the foilbles of the Church no end ,Papal Infallability etc
Long history of bloody conflict and struggle around Catholicism in Great Britain-there were'nt priest holes for nothing.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 06:04 AM
link   
Catholicism is the original "Inconvenient Truth." It's dire warnings of an "afterlife warming" have been ignored by empire after empire and it just keeps going and going. It persists despite the disdain, envy and ignorance of generations because, and here's the thing, it's the truth.

1200 years ago it warned against the Saracen belief system: it's ignored, now look around you. 900 years ago it spoke of respect for the environment: it's ignored, now look around you. 150 years ago it warned against unfettered materialism: it's ignored, now look around you. 40 years ago it warned against "sexual liberation": it's ignored, now look around you.

Bashing Catholicism is her sons and daughters rebelling against her, they come back when the SHTF and she's still there.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 06:30 AM
link   
Yes the very top ranks of the catholic church are extremely secretive and i for one have absolutely no respect for anyone in those positions.
This secrecy does not filter down past bishops to normal priests, monks, nuns or believers.

I am not very religious but im going to give some form of defense for catholics.

What catholic bashers forget to realize is that:

We have also been persecuted and exterminated simply for out religion. Just take a look at Irish history and the "Spanish Inquisition" arguement won't be so strong anymore.

Practicing catholics the world over are NOWHERE near as extreme as some other Christian sects, especially some of those in the US.

Yes our leadership is secretive and sometimes completely insane but almost every catholic knows this anyway and has the choice of whether or not to listen to them. The only thing that comes from the higher end leadership is moral advise.. nothing more.

The idea of Catholicism for catholics is the spiritual religious end.. nothing else!!

Many other Christian sects have leaders, these leaders have committed atrocities - ie Henry VIII - but other religions revel in the atrocities that the Catholic church committed in the middle ages instead of looking at their own dirty history.

We are not the ones killing millions with the help of our God at the moment.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 08:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by Supercertari
1200 years ago it warned against the Saracen belief system: it's ignored, now look around you. 900 years ago it spoke of respect for the environment: it's ignored, now look around you. 150 years ago it warned against unfettered materialism: it's ignored, now look around you. 40 years ago it warned against "sexual liberation": it's ignored, now look around you.


I have never seen or heard anything to this effect. Care to share more on this? I am sure there have been many organisations to have issued these warnings so they cannot be soley attributed to the church.

The Catholic church also said recently that it is OK to accept ET as our brother. Will we need to wait 150 or 900 or even 1200 years to meet him?

I am sorry if this sems sarcastic, but in essence of the thread, why is the Catholic church the be all and end all of what is going on in the world?



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 09:16 PM
link   
Catholic leaders have been known for supporting some of the most evil and oppressive movements of our time, and have been linked to the worst of people in our history. I think that is obviously why people are more critical of the Catholic religion. I’m not saying all the criticism is valid, or that Catholics in general should be criticized, it just seems logical that such a history of hypocrisy and persecution prevalent in this religion above many other religions would create preconceived notions.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 10:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
Catholic leaders have been known for supporting some of the most evil and oppressive movements of our time, and have been linked to the worst of people in our history.


Are you speaking in general or referencing recent history (or both)?

Eric



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 10:28 PM
link   
I was raised Catholic and was forced to participate in the church until i went away to college. Several members of my large family are still strict practicing Catholics. What I have found is that the hardfast Catholics are amongst the least tolerant people that I have been around. They have an air of superiority over those who do not share there opinions. I have found recently that they are also largely very racist. They do not want to look after others as their supposed morals would have you think, unless its another Catholic. They are curently being taught end times at least in the four different churches that my family attends. They are supporting Mccain and Palin because they think they will usher this through and destroy all the undesirables. Of all religions around the Catholic church has done more to create chasms in society than any other.

So go ahead and bash a Catholic. You have this ex catholics permission.

There are exceptions to every rule. What I wrote is what I see collectively.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 11:51 PM
link   
reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage
 





Catholic leaders have been known for supporting some of the most evil and oppressive movements of our time, and have been linked to the worst of people in our history.


Some of the things that the Catholic Church have been accused of, on this thread, are amazing.
The worst people in our history connected to Catholics?
You mean like Kim Jong-il , Muammar al--Qaddafi, Saddam Hussein, Stalin, Chiang Kai-Shek, Tamerlane, Kublai Khan, Ghengis Khan, numerous Caesars, General Tojo, .... ad infinitum




They do not want to look after others as their supposed morals would have you think, unless its another Catholic. They are curently being taught end times at least in the four different churches that my family attends. They are supporting Mccain and Palin because they think they will usher this through and destroy all the undesirables. Of all religions around the Catholic church has done more to create chasms in society than any other.

They do not want to look after others?
Well, our church has a daily soup kitchen, and everyone is invited. No one is asked what their religion is, at the door.
We have monthly collections of food and clothes for the poor of our parish, and again, religion is NEVER a factor as to who gets the food and clothing. In fact, most of the recipients are not Catholic. In addition, our church participates in a council of Christian churches that advocate the rights of the unborn. I have participated in those meetings, and they are cordial, united, and completely free of any one religions' politics.
When Katrina hit, our parish sent truckloads of food, water and clothing to those in New Orleans, again, religion was not a factor as to who the recipients were.

As for the comment about being taught "end of times", I have gone to mass virtually every week since I was born, and I have NEVER heard any priest talk about "end of times". On the other hand, I have seen many Protestant preachers on TV selling their books about "end of times". Our church believes the Bible, which states that you will never know the hour or the day.

As for pedophiles, yes, there were some, and yes many were covered up, and that is deplorable. Consider, though, that over 99% of the priests were/are NOT pedophiles. Consider also, that those that did cover up have been removed from their positions, once they were found guilty. Consider also that there were/are many preachers of other faiths, such as Jimmy Swaggart, Jimmy Baker, Oral Roberts that bilked little old ladies out of their life savings, with lies. Rev. Wright, and his GD America, and his hate-spewing talk, but nobody rightly accuses the entire body of Protestant preachers .because of the less than 1% that are abominable.

Furthermore, if you ask most Catholics whether they believe that only Catholics can be saved, they will tell you they do NOT believe that. I certainly don't.

What I do believe is that people that have hatred in their hearts are not, IMHO, people that will be saved:


Mark 12:28-34

28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.



Hatred against anyone goes against what Jesus SAID. That includes hatred against Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims and even Atheists.

The Catholic Church, like any Religion, is comprised of human beings, with all their frailties. To err is human, to forgive divine.

Has the Church changed over the years? Absolutely! In the last 50 years, the Church has admitted that it was wrong to blame the Jews for Christ's death, they were wrong in how they treated Galileo, and the current Pope, just recently in the United States, admitted that the church was absolutely wrong in covering up the pedophiles, and they have taken steps to try to atone for that, including the removal of any priest found guilty of it, and any Bishop or Cardinal that covered it up.

And yes, they acknowledge that there may be aliens, and that if so, they are God's children also. Is that a reason to ridicule the church? The church has also been steadfast in opposing war and the death penalty, as well as abortion, which is certainly more consistent than either the advocates of Liberalism and Conservation. Many liberals oppose the death penalty but advocate abortion, while many Conservatives support the death penalty but oppose abortion. In the church's view, both are murder, and go against God's commandment "Thou shalt not kill".

People will continue to bash Catholics, but bringing up 500 year old history that has been repudiated by the church, does nothing for your argument.
Furthermore, for every past historical crime blamed on Catholics, there are an equal number of crimes that could be blamed on other religions. The Puritans were responsible for the Witch hunts in Salem. The slaughter of the American Indians was carried out by a largely Protestant US government. Etc.
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
Hatred of any kind should not be tolerated by anyone.
As I've posted on other threads before this thread even existed, Hatred is what leads to war and destruction.
Learn to LOVE, not HATE, and the world will be a better place.
Amen.



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 01:00 AM
link   
To ProfEmeritus and EricD I’m sorry if you take offense becaue I stated actual history.

atheism.about.com...

My opinion on the Catholic Church is not influenced on a bible the religion is based on but the actual historical events.

I don’t know if I’m right or wrong about the church’s intentions, I can only make my mind up about it, as I do with any religion, by focusing on actions through the ages- not words or belief systems.




top topics



 
0
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join