Flood myths tell all

Many myths, as well as those from our Holy Bible describe a great storm; or "long winter", as well as Atlantis-like myths. My point is, could these be descriptions of a civilization, destroyed in a polar shift, superstorm, or other apocalypse? Below, I'm stating my evidence.
1) Noah's Flood: The book of Genesis includes the story of creation, and the great flood. The great flood describes how one man built a shelter to survive a great storm, while the rest of an evil and decadent civilization perished. Some experts have tried to explain this away as the rise of the Black sea; but they forget one obvious thing; the Black Sea flood happened when a land bridge failed; Noah's flood occurred "after great rains". Sorta different, don't you think. To me, a description of massive rains and severe flooding strike me as sounding like a hurricane. A massive hurricane, one that enveloped all or most of the world, sort of a day after tommorow superstorm, like what is described in Art Bell's "The coming Global Superstorm", which is junk science, but is also under serious investigation by Birch oceanographic institute and many other science agencies.
2) Atlantis: While I admit that I have never actually read Plato's story, my take on the story is this. A massive, high-tech, powerful civilization with a strange power source being sinking, ie washed away. In a superstorm scenario, a massive storm surge could easily wipe out coastal cities, and not to mention if the civilization is far to the north, freeze it in the beginning of a new ice age. I've heard claims that Atlantis is buried under Antartica, which is concievable if we are to suppose that the world, before the last ice age, was pretty much temperate all around.
3) The Sphinx: This Eygptian statue is in the middle of the desert, hundreds of miles away from salt water. Yet, scientists have found traces of salt water, and salt corrosion on the monument, as if was immersed or frozen solid. Also, carbon dating may place the Sphinx a lot further back than the age of the Egyptians. Maybe it is a left-over relic from our hypothetical civilization.
4) Ruins off the coast of Japan: A massive underwater mound has been found off the coast of Japan. It is submerged, and ancient, buried under some sort of reef. It is very geometrical, almost like a pyramid. If we remember that nothing in nature is symmetrical, this must be part of an ancient something. But, how did it get down there? Carbon testing places it at far older than the earliest appearance of civilization in the Far East.
5) The Greek myth: I've never read up on Greek mythology but isn't there a myth like this. Once the world was all nice and warm. Then Hades kidnapped the girl who made it so nice and warm and dragged her to the underworld. The world got all freezing and all the crops died. Zeus got ticked off when he saw everybody freezing so he made Hades give her back, except at winter. It's plausible that this was an early metaphor for how the world was once flourishing with great civilizations, then suddenly, everything was taken away by great cold. But, the worst of it ended, except for a mild taste at winter. Sound sort of like a superstorm to you?
6) My best evidence: The bible, and many other ancient texts describe strange things, such as burning swords and flying things. Since we have little archaelogical records from that ancient, and an ice age would screw everything up, maybe these were vague descriptions of vague memories of a different time, passed down by each generation.
My conclusion is that thousands of years ago, before the Egyptians, just before the onset of the last ice age, a great civilization(s) were gathered around the world, from Antartica to North America, down to the equator. They had advanced technology, missiles, jets, and guns, so they were somewhat comparable to the modern world. But suddenly, the North Atlantic current stopped the circulation of warm air north and south, so that a great series of hurricane-like supercells formed over the globe. Some people, by God's grace, survived by hiding in shelters, but most of the world perished in the storm, the survivors spreading out across the globe to the few areas such as Mesopotamia not covered by thick sheets of ice. Gradually humankind rebuilt itself, to where we are today, after the ice age came to a close.

The most likely scenario for worldwide cataclysms is the periodic geographical poleshifts which apparently happen every 3600 years approx. There are several theories as to why this occurs but the effect is

1. Tsunamis 1200 feet high travelling at 900 kilometres per hour
2. Hurricane force winds at over 400 MPH
3. Huge off the richter earthquakes
4 Volcanic eruptions
5 Mountain forming

Clearly a poleshift would kill most of the current population

Interesting take on some things. Flat wrong on other parts. Forget the ancient civilization part. There would be signs of heavy mining, just like we have, that would outlast even an ice age.

Other parts are pure speculation on your part. Atlantis mystery power was never mentioned in Greek text, but by modern hucksters channeling.

Japanese structures could be indicator of stone age people before accepted time frames, this is interesting and being studied by several groups.

The Bible has many examples of events further removed by hundreds to thousands of years of oral tradition then put to paper. Some stories are easy, others test your faith; it is a religion after all.

reply to post by Ranger23

Great post.I have read Graham Hancocks theories on these subjects.He is an engaging writer.There is definitely something amiss,all of these coincidences cannot exist in vacuums.Keep it up!

i think theres flood stories from almost every country... not sure if this is all of em but read some of these flood stories
i think its possible that an ice age type thing happened

If you're really into this stuff, read The Coming Global Superstorm by someone...I forget his name

Just read about thunder cloud thermal dynamics. If there was a layer of water vapor locked up in the upper atmosphere, as Genesis describes, and the earth's pressure system became imbalanced, then a global thunder cloud system would have been formed.

Imagine 60,000 ft. thunder clouds surrounding the entire planet. Where would all that water go?

Thunder cloud thermal dynamics

I believe the deluge came to stop the longevity in humans.

There is another possibility that is quite frankly, out of this world, and would take a great deal of work to even ready its introduction in this thread.

There is the possibility that another hidden force had a hand in the flood, via technology. I wish I could go deeper into this, but as I said it wold take a great deal of work.

For now, I only add a suggestion that there may be a more logical reason for the flood.

Originally posted by Ranger23
1) Noah's Flood: The book of Genesis includes the story of creation, and the great flood.

It's a rewriting of earlier Sumerian tales of a great flood (that did not cover the entire world). www.livius.org...

Many cultures do not have flood stories and many got them only after the Christians arrived. The ones with flood myths are in areas that are (no surprise, Im sure) prone to floods. The Aztec stories appear to be inauthentic and based on Christian tales.

A massive hurricane, one that enveloped all or most of the world, sort of a day after tommorow superstorm, like what is described in Art Bell's "The coming Global Superstorm", which is junk science, but is also under serious investigation by Birch oceanographic institute and many other science agencies.

The thing is, there isn't a "Birch Oceanographic Institute." Closest I can find is the Scripps Oceanographic Institute which includes the Birch Aquarium. They're studying superstorms, yes... but I haven't seen any scientist saying that a global superstorm is possible.
www.sio.ucsd.edu...

2) Atlantis: While I admit that I have never actually read Plato's story, my take on the story is this. A massive, high-tech, powerful civilization with a strange power source being sinking, ie washed away. In a superstorm scenario, a massive storm surge could easily wipe out coastal cities, and not to mention if the civilization is far to the north, freeze it in the beginning of a new ice age.

You should read Plato. You would learn that the Atlantean army was defeated by an ancient Bronze Age Athenian army and that Atlantis sunk until the land was a large and impassible mud flat.

3) The Sphinx: This Eygptian statue is in the middle of the desert, hundreds of miles away from salt water.

It's on the bank of the Nile, in an area that was regularly flooded until the river shifted slightly. Today Aswan dam prevents flooding in and around the Giza plateau. Might want to check some additional sources.

Also, carbon dating may place the Sphinx a lot further back than the age of the Egyptians.

Sandstone, alas, can't be carbon dated. You need something that was made of carbon. Living things and former living things.

4) Ruins off the coast of Japan: A massive underwater mound has been found off the coast of Japan. It is submerged, and ancient, buried under some sort of reef. It is very geometrical, almost like a pyramid. If we remember that nothing in nature is symmetrical, this must be part of an ancient something. But, how did it get down there? Carbon testing places it at far older than the earliest appearance of civilization in the Far East.

Even Schoch now says it's natural (besides, there's no doors or windows or entrances there)... and again you can't date rocks. So pages that tell you it's been carbon dated have gotten information from someone who's lying about the age.

5) The Greek myth: I've never read up on Greek mythology but isn't there a myth like this. Once the world was all nice and warm. Then Hades kidnapped the girl who made it so nice and warm and dragged her to the underworld. The world got all freezing and all the crops died. Zeus got ticked off when he saw everybody freezing so he made Hades give her back, except at winter.

It was her mother, Demeter.

It's plausible that this was an early metaphor for how the world was once flourishing with great civilizations, then suddenly, everything was taken away by great cold.

...except that they had "golden age" myths and they weren't intertwined with a long winter.

6) My best evidence: The bible, and many other ancient texts describe strange things, such as burning swords and flying things. Since we have little archaelogical records from that ancient, and an ice age would screw everything up, maybe these were vague descriptions of vague memories of a different time, passed down by each generation.

This is National Archaeology Month. I think you should check out some archaeology fairs in your area and find out about the (literally) tons of evidence we have for humans and their lifestyles for the past 100,000 years. Here's a quick (I hope it works) Google link to 2008 and "Archaeology month"
www.google.com...

It's worldwide -- I encourage you to go and play for a day. I bet you'll get hooked!

reply to post by Byrd


Everything you say may be true. We don't actually have conclusive evidence. There is no stone marker that tells the story of a global superstorm: BUT, there is no evidence that it didn't happen. And, yes I actually read Plato right after reading your post. I still haven't figured out what sci-fi romance fantasy you got the idea about the bronze age army defeating Atlantis, but I can tell you that I was right about what Plato said, at least according to my translation. Don't forget that after the fall of rome, the great empire was sorta forgotten for thousand years...Imagine the lack of conclusive evidence if the entire world was frozen and swamped with tidal waves. You talk about us Chrisitians basing our flood myths from the Sumerians. Well, I'm a Christian, therefore I believe that we wrote down our old stories. By the way, thanks about correcting me on the Oceanographic institute. Man, I've visited there; I should know what it's called

Originally posted by Ranger23
reply to post by Byrd

 

Everything you say may be true. We don't actually have conclusive evidence. There is no stone marker that tells the story of a global superstorm: BUT, there is no evidence that it didn't happen. And, yes I actually read Plato right after reading your post. I still haven't figured out what sci-fi romance fantasy you got the idea about the bronze age army defeating Atlantis, but I can tell you that I was right about what Plato said, at least according to my translation.

Here you have claimed to be ablew to translate ancient Greek.

What Byrd says about Plato is absolutely 100% correct. Plato describes the armies of Atlantis. He describes a Bronze Age civilization.

Originally posted by Ranger23 Don't forget that after the fall of rome, the great empire was sorta forgotten for thousand years...Imagine the lack of conclusive evidence if the entire world was frozen and swamped with tidal waves.

There could not possibly be a lack of evidence of the world being frozen and/or swamped with tidal waves.

Originally posted by Ranger23You talk about us Chrisitians basing our flood myths from the Sumerians. Well, I'm a Christian, therefore I believe that we wrote down our old stories.

Belief is one thing, evidence (and fact) is another.

Compare the Gilgamesh flood story (the hero was called Utnapishtim instead of Noah) with that of Noah. Also, remember that the Israelites were held captive in Babylon and Gilgamesh is a Babylonian version of an earlier Akkadian flood myth (the hero was called Atrahasisin that one) which was itself a later version of an even earlier Sumerian flood myth (this one starring a guy named Ziusudra.)

But, certainly the Hebrews wrote down their old stories. It's just that many stories were borrowed.

Where do you think Abraham came from, anyway? He was Babylonian.

Harte

Originally posted by Ranger23
reply to post by Byrd

 

Everything you say may be true. We don't actually have conclusive evidence. There is no stone marker that tells the story of a global superstorm: BUT, there is no evidence that it didn't happen. And, yes I actually read Plato right after reading your post. I still haven't figured out what sci-fi romance fantasy you got the idea about the bronze age army defeating Atlantis, but I can tell you that I was right about what Plato said, at least according to my translation.

Here you have claimed to be able to translate ancient Greek.

What Byrd says about Plato is absolutely 100% correct. Plato describes the armies of Atlantis. He describes a Bronze Age civilization.

Instead of claiming to have read it, perhaps you should go ahead and read it.
Timaeus by Plato
Critias by Plato
Neither dialogue is all that long, nor is either very difficult to read. And in the first one (Timaeus,) there are only a few paragraphs about Atlantis.

Originally posted by Ranger23 Don't forget that after the fall of rome, the great empire was sorta forgotten for thousand years...Imagine the lack of conclusive evidence if the entire world was frozen and swamped with tidal waves.

There could not possibly be a lack of evidence of the world being frozen and/or swamped with tidal waves.

Originally posted by Ranger23You talk about us Chrisitians basing our flood myths from the Sumerians. Well, I'm a Christian, therefore I believe that we wrote down our old stories.

Belief is one thing, evidence (and fact) is another.

Compare the Gilgamesh flood story (the hero was called Utnapishtim instead of Noah) with that of Noah. Also, remember that the Israelites were held captive in Babylon and Gilgamesh is a Babylonian version of an earlier Akkadian flood myth (the hero was called Atrahasis in that one) which was itself a later version of an even earlier Sumerian flood myth (this one starring a guy named Ziusudra.)

But, certainly the Hebrews wrote down their old stories. It's just that many stories were borrowed.

Where do you think Abraham came from, anyway? He was Babylonian.

Harte

From Harte's post:

Plato describes the armies of Atlantis. He describes a Bronze Age civilization.

I would also agree.

From Plato's Critias:

The leader was required to furnish for the war the sixth portion of a war-chariot, so as to make up a total of ten thousand chariots; also two horses and riders for them, and a pair of chariot-horses without a seat, accompanied by a horseman who could fight on foot carrying a small shield, and having a charioteer who stood behind the man-at-arms to guide the two horses; also, he was bound to furnish two heavy armed
soldiers, two slingers, three stone-shooters and three javelin-men, who were light-armed, and four sailors to make up the complement of twelve hundred ships. Such was the military order of the royal city-the order of the other nine governments varied, and it would be wearisome to recount their several differences.

Excerpt from Plato's Timaeus:

....and you will observe, too, that the warriors in Egypt are distinct from all the other classes, and are commanded by the law to devote themselves solely to military pursuits; moreover, the weapons which they carry are shields and spears, a style of equipment which the goddess taught of Asiatics first to us, as in your part of the world first to you.

The equipment for war is rather indicative of the Bronze Age period, not some "highly advanced" civilization as some would allege.

cormac


[edit on 17-10-2008 by cormac mac airt]

The various so called "flood myths" are actually describing the earth changes of of 10,500 BC and the end of the last Ice Age.

Plato heard the story 9.000 years after it happened, he would have not known every detail exactly.

Originally posted by Hollywood11
Plato heard the story 9.000 years after it happened, he would have not known every detail exactly.

You're right, except there is no one alive to tell what the "truth" of these details are. Plato DO describe Atlantis in quite alot of detail. That's why its so popular. People can go and nitpick on the things they find fantastic and ignore the rest, or in this case replace it with complete fabrications.

Sandstone, alas, can't be carbon dated. You need something that was made of carbon. Living things and former living things.

I like to clarify this point just slightly; while indeed, radiocarbon dating can only be successfully performed on organic, once living, material, inorganic material can still be dated based on radioactive decay.

I also agree with daeoeste on Graham Hancock--Fingerprints of the Gods discusses this topic in detail as do several other posts here on ATS.

Okay, I take your point about Atlantis. I probably shouldn't have relied on my girlfriend to e-mail me the exact translation of Plato. But everything else is completely true. How you say that us christians borrowed our flood myth from someone else just proves my point. That means that everybody believed in a world-wide storm. And, if the flood myths took place at the end of an ice age when everything was melting, why does our myths describe the great civilization being wiped off the face of the map?

reply to post by Ranger23


Actually no. Take a look at the following:

Flood Myths

Where do you see any evidence that everybody believed in a world-wide storm or were even talking about the same event? Also, where do you see evidence that the flood myths mentioned are talking about the end of the ice age? Our myths don't describe a great civilization being wiped off the face of the map, Atlantis was a one-off story told by Plato as a morality tale. Pretty much a David and Goliath scenario. Atlantis in Plato's tale sees itself as big and bad, only to get its butt kicked by the inferior forces of Athens.

It should also be mentioned that many of the flood myths at the above site are obviously local. Claiming to know that all these myths were talking about the same event and that it was global is claiming to know more that the evidence shows. Without evidence, it's wishful thinking.

cormac

Here is 1 episode of Graham Hancock's 3 part series Flooded Kingdoms of the Ice Age, based off the research from the best selling book Underworld.

This one investigates the Yonaguni megalith and some other less known structures not so far away from it with many top level geologists and experts. Even the skeptics in the end are at a loss to explain these things through natural processes.
www.livevideo.com...
www.livevideo.com...
www.livevideo.com...
www.livevideo.com...
www.livevideo.com...

The way I see it is that since many ancient peoples have myths and legends about floods, it suggests that they experienced them. But we all experience these things today, too, so isn't it likely that the ancients perceived a localised flood as opposed to a global one. I mean, many of these people though the earth flat and tiny compared to what we know it is today.

Think about how if all the ice on earth melts it will only raise water levels 20 - 30ft, but there are highlands, hills and mountains that will not get flooded. Where will all the water come from to flood the world? And even more problematic, where did it go?

Myths and legends can tell us allot about early people and what they may have experienced, but they need to be rationalised.

I look at some Ms and Ls and see Gods interacting with people, I don't believe that there actually were god's interacting people after descending from the sky. Ancient Astronauts, IMO, is a far more rational possibility.