Possibly the "SADDEST" documentary ever made....

reply to post by Unlimitedpossibilities


Organic here in the EU means that the animals would be feed only with natural organic products. The food should come from lands where no pesticide was used for at least 5 years ( this is how you get the certiffication). Free range means that the animals are not caged, but they can walk in free environment. Unfortunately there is no certiffication for how the animals are killed, but this type of certiffication would make a lot of money if people would see the documentary...

[edit on 12-10-2008 by sty]

Originally posted by sty
reply to post by Yarcofin

 

I agree with you that the animals are not as intelligent as we are. However, it is bit too far to say they are just a pack of instincts. Insects , yes. But animals that would have a cortex and neurons do have a more than you think. After seeing this doc, I was wondering.. what if alliens 100 times more intelligent than us would come over.. would we be a very good large industrial take away farm? in the end we would be too stupid in comparation with them.. would they say that we probably do not even have a soul ? bit concerned now

[edit on 12-10-2008 by sty]

Who says they are not here already reaping some unknown benefit from us? Aristotle did some nice arguments with slaves and there masters. Look up some of his philosophies on such matters. Pretty dure he did not mention aliens .

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


What can we do really? The only way for things to change is to get most people to change.

People will continue to eat out at restaurant, eating delicious steaks, oblivious to animals suffering. If this video was shown on TV, will that make a difference? It is very difficult to live a vegan lifestyle.

I have tried to go veggie several times. It is very difficult and expensive. I have to put in the time and effort to do it. Missing delicious steak is too difficult.

reply to post by sty


Interesting. So your saying that organic says nothing about how they are killed right? I guess that needs to be corrected within the laws of the certification. However, I just cannot see how organic farmers would be nothing but respectful, even during the killing process. Maybe I am just being to hopeful or trusting...

This movie is sooo sad.I had know idea that some of this stuff existed.It made me want to I don't know how easy it would be to change things....I actually think that things would be very hard to change.I do not,however,think that humanity should be exterminated,for then you are applying the same logic that we apply to these poor animals....tough issue.

Holy crap man,. ..

Originally posted by Viral
Our consciousness of life elevates any and all thoughts and feelings we have

Where the hell does it elevate us?

You nicely ended your post at least by saying "kill needlessly" ..

But I think you are REALLY wrong about animals

Originally posted by Viral
I don't believe an animal feels things on the same magnitude as us as much as it responds to outside stimuli.

Do you own a cat? .... go grab it.. now.. push it's little paw, so it's claw comes out... now, .. grab the claw,, and twist it ever so gently.. I am almost positive your cat will be super pissy and maybe even FEEL the pain, you know with the same magnitude you would if I grabbed your finger nails with some pliers and went to town on you! Oh .. yeh and I'm also pretty damn sure the cat won't like you much after that.

So in your logic, handicapped people are also subject to needless pain and torture because they don't register it the same way a "normal" person would? Damn sounds like euthanasia.

[edit on 10/12/2008 by PuRe EnErGy]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
I said I'm against animal cruelty, a good farmer shows his animals love and respect even if he's going to kill them.

So as long as we love and respect the animals we are about to eat, that's allright? I don't get that. There's no need to be cruel while killing, but death in of itself is a pretty cruel act to the one being killed.

Animals have been eating each other for Eons. Is a person who is working in the animal processing field an immoral person? I think not. They are performing services that others choose not to.

There are no pleasing ways to kill other living things, all of them are rather messy. It doesn't make people in those fields nor those that consume the animal products evil though.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by PuRe EnErGy

 

What can we do really? The only way for things to change is to get most people to change.

People will continue to eat out at restaurant, eating delicious steaks, oblivious to animals suffering. If this video was shown on TV, will that make a difference? It is very difficult to live a vegan lifestyle.

I have tried to go veggie several times. It is very difficult and expensive. I have to put in the time and effort to do it. Missing delicious steak is too difficult.

I don't really care what people eat.. that isn't my .. "beef" .. so to speak.. my problem is what CAUSED and CAUSES this problem that the video addresses, and the CAUSE of this problem is MONEY, not hungry people with a poor choice of nutrition.

[edit on 10/12/2008 by PuRe EnErGy]

reply to post by Unlimitedpossibilities


unfortunately this is true in the EU - both organic and non organic animals are "prepared" in the same centers . A certification would indeed push the corporations to correct the situation at least a bit..

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


You must have missed the line, "This is not an argument based on IQ or intelligence."

Also when you say, "So in your logic..." you are going on a straw man argument that I didn't support. But I will address both of your points.

1) Why would I needlessly injure a pet of mine? Did I say that an animal feels no suffering at all, or did I say that it doesn't feel it on the same order as a human?

2) I do not support euthanasia. You can view the body as a complex biological machine, and the soul as the operator. Someone with a disability has only something wrong with the machine, but that being's value remains unhindered, regardless of their worth to you or me.

[edit on 12-10-2008 by Viral]

Originally posted by Viral
reply to post by PuRe EnErGy

 

You must have missed the line, "This is not an argument based on IQ or intelligence."

1) Why would I needlessly injure a pet of mine? Did I say that an animal feels no suffering at all, or did I say that it doesn't feel it on the same order as a human?

2) I do not support euthanasia. You can view the body as a complex biological machine, and the soul as the operator. Someone with a disability has only something wrong with the machine, but that being's value remains unhindered, regardless of their worth to you or me.

I Didn't MISS ANYTHING.

did I say that it doesn't feel it on the same order as a human?

It doesn't? ... PROOF Please. Quite convenient for you to ASSUME that, or did you get your information from "science" .. the same science and statistics carried out by the organizations treating the animals this way?

for that matter, what is the same ORDER? ..

[edit on 10/12/2008 by PuRe EnErGy]

Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar
Humans are in fact a cancer. Wherever they go, they bring destruction with them. Very few of us take the necessary steps to preserve the ecosystem, and I can honestly say a major depopulating event is definitely needed. 6.5 billion people on the planet now, I say lets wipe out 6 billion of them by whatever means necessary.

Wow, talk about self loathing. Are you one of those 6 billion or one of the .5 Billion carrying that mass killing out? Just curious.

I always find the dichotomy of animal rights activists to be rather amusing. Save the chicken, but go ahead and wipe out the majority of the human race by whatever means necessary.

To be honest, your ilk scare me more than any hunter or butcher or animal tester.


[edit on 12-10-2008 by pavil]

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy

I don't really care what people eat.. that isn't my .. "beef" .. so to speak.. my problem is what CAUSED and CAUSES this problem that the video addresses, and the CAUSE of this problem is MONEY, not hungry people with a poor choice of nutrition.

Right. As long as people keep buying and eating meat, the industry will still thrive and animal cruelty will continue. There is not much we can do about it. There have been many regulations but still it won't change.

As long as people pay to take children to circuses and zoos, the abuse will continue.

You are right. It is all about money, and people provide that.

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


I can no more "prove" you have a soul than I do.

But I can reflect on certain facts such as you and I are moral agents who can reciprocate moral demands, whereas an animal can not. We can also reflect, have self motivated thought, reason, empathy, and so on. I understand your zeal for this topic but I think you are misinterpreting my stance.

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


hahha your on point man, im with you all the way

reply to post by Viral


my friend, all the qualities you mention are "gone" when a certain part of the brain is damaged. Study some Neurology and see how brain injuries can affect qualities of what you believe its the "soul" -" the capacity to reflect, have self motivated thought, reason, empathy, and so on "

[edit on 12-10-2008 by sty]

reply to post by Viral

But I can reflect on certain facts such as you and I are moral agents who can reciprocate moral demands, whereas an animal can not.

Are you sure? There have been many cases where animals, especially dogs, have saved people's lives. Do dogs not wag their tails when the owners come home? Sometimes we assume too much.

The video made a comparison to Hitler and holocaust. The Jews were considered subhuman and had no souls. Oh no, Godwin's Law wins again

Originally posted by Viral
reply to post by PuRe EnErGy

 

I can no more "prove" you have a soul than I do.

But I can reflect on certain facts such as you and I are moral agents who can reciprocate moral demands, whereas an animal can not. We can also reflect, have self motivated thought, reason, empathy, and so on. I understand your zeal for this topic but I think you are misinterpreting my stance.

I'm not misinterpreting ANYTHING here, you are distorting things, and using CRAP words to express yourself..

Just because YOU cannot understand the emotions, or language of animals doesn't make it any less REAL, you are missing out on REALITY here, talking about PHILOSOPHY! This is not philosophical at all, this isn't theories or hypothesis either, animals FEEL, they are ALIVE, they have language and are part of this planet no more or less than you or I, my zeal is for people to understand the nature of these problems, which is MONEY, this whole damn planet is screwed up because of MONEY, nothing else.. MONEY.

Now if you really want to argue about animals having feelings, go grab your cat and carry out what I detailed in my earlier post, I am sure your scientific adventure will prove that I am correct and that they do communicate pain, empathy and other feelings.. oh and language, I'm sure your cat will meow.

After viewing this;

I became ravenously hungry for steak.

reply to post by Lysergic


facny some Mad Cow?