Possibly the "SADDEST" documentary ever made....

reply to post by Shar_Chi

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I respect that, end no offense meant. you say you don't need meat, but i am also sure that you do not walk 8 miles a day on foot just to take your cow on a plane, you do not do agricultural activities with just your bear hands and tools that have not changed in hundreds of years, and most of all you do not do all this things every single day from sunrise to sunset like the people in my country and many many others still are forced to do. .. So try asking them what they feel about this... they will laugh in your face.. The point is they need that fat and energy that they get from the meat.

And even if we come to a future where physical work is eliminated, i don't think that eating meat will stop just because some folks thinks it is wrong. All i see is constant relationship with our nature that will never end.

So people must stop believing that they must save everything on this planet just to satisfy their arrogance.

Now i know i am kinda of on the subject here but I had already made may statement about this in my first comment.

Really? Damn we better tell all those body builders to stop eating protein as they have enough already lol. Don't you get it? Ever seen those children in Africa with swollen bellies? That's because of a lack of protein in the diet.

I'm sorry but you're talking nonsense. On top of that if you are a highly active person then a lack of protein can be quite damaging depending on your activities. For example when i was doing martial arts and weight lifting pretty much every day, i had ot consume vast quantities of food.

Protein was essential and when i tried doing it on a vegetarian diet i became very unwell. I couldn't get enough calories into my system on such a diet. Adding some griled fish and chicken in to the diet sorted me out.

Precisely. A relationship! Relationship implies a level of respect and courtesy. This thread is not about whether or not humans should eat meat. It's about whether humans should treat animals with respect or not. As I mentioned previously, the Native Indians and other ancient cultures would thank the spirit of the animal for giving up its physical body so that they may eat. Sadism is unnacceptable and that kind of treatment is not a relationship with animals - it's a cruel dominion over them.

[edit on 14/10/2008 by Cythraul]

reply to post by karamazov feodor

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No offence taken, but in your reply I feel obliged to point out that at least 30% of Hindu Indians are vego (that is quite a lot of people), with upto a further 50% eating very little meat compared to westerners. These guys mostly live a life of rural toil, so your example is somewhat misleading

One other arbitrary stat... in western society you can avoid direct participation in over 1000 animal deaths per year by being vego. That's another feel good fact for those vegos who saw the vid

Documentaries like this are always biased and paint animals in one light. What they fail to show is that animals are just as brutal and harsh as humans are, just in different ways. Animals fight, torture, and kill each other just as human beings do. Whether you like it or not you have to accept that life is a brutal and uncaring thing that you just have to make the best of.

With that said I don't condone simply turning an eye to the atrocities that human beings commit against other creatures on this planet. Hopefully as time moves on and technology progresses we'll find ways to get what we want without subjugating other beings to so much suffering.

people get use to it. same thing as soldiers at war, once you kill a few living things you become numb to the fact that you are doing it.

i think animals shouldn't be roughed up, but i would never say they shouldn't be used as sustenance or other methods to benefit mankind.

i actually remember probably 4 years back i watched a PETA video and swore off meat forever. It lasted about 4 weeks, until i forgot about the videos and realized how good cheeseburgers are.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by jd140]

I'm a big animal lover so watching this movie would make me cry. Heck, I cried when I watched the German Shepard die in I am Legend. If your mentality is who cares, well we need those animals to live.

Our ecosystem is very delicate. Wiping off one animal in one area could throw the balance out of whack. We need certain animals to get rid of our pests. If we had no bats we would be overrun by insects in the city. If we had no cars we would be overrun by pigeons. If we had no animals we would be vegans!

reply to post by WinoBot

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Now you've gotta watch "Super-size Me" lol! Made me drastically cut down my fast food intake!

Apples and oranges. We kill by the mass, they kill to live. We make them extinct, while they struggle to survive. Have you ever heard of a lion killing 10 elephants for the fun of it? Or for it's tusks? It is one thing to kill for survival and a totally different thing to kill for fun.

All the animals feel pain. Imagine this, being beaten with a club, hung upside down, and having your stomach cut for your skin. Well it happens a lot for fur.

We humans are very selfish beings. We don't share like animals in the wild. We kill mass cattle, make burgers and once we are full we throw out what we don't want. In the animal kingdom once the animal is full they leave the carcass for other animals to feed off of. Lions kill, eat until they are full, leave and then the scavengers come.



Agreed.

For the veggies here saying "If you don't want them they live yay". Well sorry but if we didn't eat them then they wouldn't even exist as they would never have been bred. So basically either way you kill them, the difference is meat eaters get a good meal

Forcing the reproduction of animals for profit or for "resources" is inherently wrong. In the same way that I would not agree with human babies being created just to be harvested, with the argument being "The only point of their existence is to serve this purpose.", I do not agree with this practice. To those who think comparing the two is obscene, think of it this way. An alien species would do the same to us using the same logic. Breeding humans, harvesting their organs, and consuming their flesh.

If humans were meant to do this, we would be able to naturally consume flesh. If you tried to eat what a real carnivore eats you would be sick beyond your wildest dreams. It is absolutely an invention of the mind, and one that always seems to separate the good from the bad in most stories. The hunter, the prey, and their savior. The wolf, the lamb, and the shepherd. I don't want to be anywhere on an animal food chain, I would prefer to remove myself from it completely.

If the demand for meat drops, it will mean less artificial manipulation of the reproduction of meat producing livestock. In my opinion this would go a very long way toward solving a huge number of Earth's problems, so I feel really passionate about these issues.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by maus80]

[edit on 14-10-2008 by maus80]

There are times in this life when I find myself completely and utterly ashamed to be a member of the human race.


This is one of those times.


Mankind is truly the most wicked and savage beast of them all.

Nasty video - seen ones like this before - i am not against people eating meat as i am a meat eater myself - i am against the ways in which they go about killing and rearing animals - they should have freedom for one - and then instant death not long suffering, then once they are dead you can hack them how you want as they are not alive - no one can say stripping the skin off an animal whilst alive is right, and if you do you should be skinned alive yourself, in regards to circuses - there very bad least they are banned in uk (animal circuses) , zoo's are not much better, animals should be in the wild, and should we even help them if they are hurt in the wild - would a lion come help us if we were hurt - but then again we have evolved to a much higher state than them in some ways - so i think reserve parks are good only for when the animal needs help or if the actual main wild life area has been destroyed by humans or fire etc. personally i think we should just have huge buildings - miles high and wide where everyone in the country lives, then the rest of the country is for animals to live in.

reply to post by philjwolf

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Hey, wait a minute there! I love my dogs and they a part of my family. My Sasha loves me back and is very happy to be my pet. She brings me joy and comfort. I have been sick for a long time and she knows when I am not feeling well because those are the times she comes to me to lay on my chest and give me kisses. I see concern in her eyes for my wellbeing. I show my love for her by taking the best care of her I can. She is not a slave but one on my "children" and we do communicate with each other all the time.

I am a personal trainer dude. I think I would know a bit about protein

There is a big difference between consuming vast amounts of food, as you said you did, and consuming vast amounts of protein. The ONLY case where you need to supplement protein into your diet is if you are one of those hard core weight lifters. Those are the only people who need to supplement protein into their diet to attain their goals. Regular people that exercise to stay fit, and not get OMGOSHHUGE, do not need to eat protein outisde of what their body naturally produces or what they eat in their daily food regimen. There is no need to go out and buy supplements to add to this. The protein your body produces and the protein you get from regular eating is more than sufficient.

There are plenty of sources where protein can be found for someone on a vegetarian diet, and I know plenty of true vegans that eat absolutely zero meat who do this and have no issues. Perhaps you should visit a doctor, because if you NEED to have that protein supplemented into you, and you aren't a hard core heavy weightlifter or athlete, you might have some sort of problem.

The kids in Africa have WAY more than a lack of protein contributing to their bodily diseases.

www.healthrecipes.com...

2 eggs a day, that's all the protein you need.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by Temperamental69]

[edit on 14-10-2008 by Temperamental69]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

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Because it is still more humane then a lot of slaughter houses.
In the wild the animals still have a chance to run/fight and defend themselves, or someone else will for the good of the herd. one gets it while the others take off.
Pigs are smart, and they are corralled in filthy conditions, watching one get it ahead of them, and they all start screaming in panic, but unable to move.
And while they and the cattle are supposed to be stunned before being slaughtered, many times they are not.
The machine grabs the animals by the hooves and flips them up, then they are gutted alive and un-stunned.
All for the sake of time.

the animals live in horrible conditions up till that point.

Veal alone are kept in cages they can't move in. They are force fed and kept in the dark and slaughtered. The thought breaks my heart.

My dad was a meat salesman, and he always said that if anyone ever actually saw a slaughter house or rendering plant, they wouldn't eat meat.

The chickens alone are horrible. Forced into cages where they can't move. their feet will even grow around the bars on the bottom of the cage. Their beaks are snipped off. Just like that. no medicine.

So tell me, where in nature does that happen?

I have not been able to bring myself to watch the video after reading the entire thread, but I have seen similar ones. I have been a vegetarian for 8 years (but not yet a vegan, I'm human and imperfect).

We are here to maximize our pleasure and minimize our pain ("our" referring to every living being). Plants do not have nervous systems and the book "The Secret Life of Plants" which claims plants show pain on polygraph tests has not been replicated scientifically to my knowledge. Also, we have to eat something, so I have no problem with eating plants.

That said, whether animals eat animals naturally or not, whether humans are designed to be carnivores or herbivores, whether animals are equal to or lesser than humans, whether animals have souls or not, shouldn't we as human stewards be trying to reduce pain to the bare minimum planetwide? A vegan or a near-vegan diet with only the bare minimum of meat necessary to survive would go far toward reducing worldwide pain.

I avoid animal products wherever I can, and if I'm in a swamp I swat as few mosquitos as I can. Animals do sometimes kill other animals, but by and large they do not have a choice. We humans do have a choice. Why not choose kindness and compassion? (And why do you love animals called pets but not animals called dinner?)