Originally posted by Temperamental69
Protein is produced naturally in the body and there is MORE than enough produced on a daily basis to keep the body going. You do not, unless you have a disease which affects this negatively, need to supplement protein into your body. That is not an argument.

Really? Damn we better tell all those body builders to stop eating protein as they have enough already lol. Don't you get it? Ever seen those children in Africa with swollen bellies? That's because of a lack of protein in the diet.

I'm sorry but you're talking nonsense. On top of that if you are a highly active person then a lack of protein can be quite damaging depending on your activities. For example when i was doing martial arts and weight lifting pretty much every day, i had ot consume vast quantities of food.

Protein was essential and when i tried doing it on a vegetarian diet i became very unwell. I couldn't get enough calories into my system on such a diet. Adding some griled fish and chicken in to the diet sorted me out.

Originally posted by karamazov feodor
All i see is constant relationship with our nature that will never end.

Precisely. A relationship! Relationship implies a level of respect and courtesy. This thread is not about whether or not humans should eat meat. It's about whether humans should treat animals with respect or not. As I mentioned previously, the Native Indians and other ancient cultures would thank the spirit of the animal for giving up its physical body so that they may eat. Sadism is unnacceptable and that kind of treatment is not a relationship with animals - it's a cruel dominion over them.

[edit on 14/10/2008 by Cythraul]

Documentaries like this are always biased and paint animals in one light. What they fail to show is that animals are just as brutal and harsh as humans are, just in different ways. Animals fight, torture, and kill each other just as human beings do. Whether you like it or not you have to accept that life is a brutal and uncaring thing that you just have to make the best of.

With that said I don't condone simply turning an eye to the atrocities that human beings commit against other creatures on this planet. Hopefully as time moves on and technology progresses we'll find ways to get what we want without subjugating other beings to so much suffering.

Originally posted by LostChildrenOfBabylon
i just cant see how some of us humans can willingly take a club to the head of a pig until it starts having seizures, while laughing their asses off.

people get use to it. same thing as soldiers at war, once you kill a few living things you become numb to the fact that you are doing it.

i think animals shouldn't be roughed up, but i would never say they shouldn't be used as sustenance or other methods to benefit mankind.

i actually remember probably 4 years back i watched a PETA video and swore off meat forever. It lasted about 4 weeks, until i forgot about the videos and realized how good cheeseburgers are.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by jd140]

I'm a big animal lover so watching this movie would make me cry. Heck, I cried when I watched the German Shepard die in I am Legend. If your mentality is who cares, well we need those animals to live.

Our ecosystem is very delicate. Wiping off one animal in one area could throw the balance out of whack. We need certain animals to get rid of our pests. If we had no bats we would be overrun by insects in the city. If we had no cars we would be overrun by pigeons. If we had no animals we would be vegans!

Originally posted by Fo Shiggadee
Documentaries like this are always biased and paint animals in one light. What they fail to show is that animals are just as brutal and harsh as humans are, just in different ways. Animals fight, torture, and kill each other just as human beings do. Whether you like it or not you have to accept that life is a brutal and uncaring thing that you just have to make the best of.

Apples and oranges. We kill by the mass, they kill to live. We make them extinct, while they struggle to survive. Have you ever heard of a lion killing 10 elephants for the fun of it? Or for it's tusks? It is one thing to kill for survival and a totally different thing to kill for fun.

All the animals feel pain. Imagine this, being beaten with a club, hung upside down, and having your stomach cut for your skin. Well it happens a lot for fur.

We humans are very selfish beings. We don't share like animals in the wild. We kill mass cattle, make burgers and once we are full we throw out what we don't want. In the animal kingdom once the animal is full they leave the carcass for other animals to feed off of. Lions kill, eat until they are full, leave and then the scavengers come.

With that said I don't condone simply turning an eye to the atrocities that human beings commit against other creatures on this planet. Hopefully as time moves on and technology progresses we'll find ways to get what we want without subjugating other beings to so much suffering.

Agreed.

For the veggies here saying "If you don't want them they live yay". Well sorry but if we didn't eat them then they wouldn't even exist as they would never have been bred. So basically either way you kill them, the difference is meat eaters get a good meal

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
If we didn't eat them then they wouldn't even exist as they would never have been bred. So basically either way you kill them, the difference is meat eaters get a good meal

Forcing the reproduction of animals for profit or for "resources" is inherently wrong. In the same way that I would not agree with human babies being created just to be harvested, with the argument being "The only point of their existence is to serve this purpose.", I do not agree with this practice. To those who think comparing the two is obscene, think of it this way. An alien species would do the same to us using the same logic. Breeding humans, harvesting their organs, and consuming their flesh.

If humans were meant to do this, we would be able to naturally consume flesh. If you tried to eat what a real carnivore eats you would be sick beyond your wildest dreams. It is absolutely an invention of the mind, and one that always seems to separate the good from the bad in most stories. The hunter, the prey, and their savior. The wolf, the lamb, and the shepherd. I don't want to be anywhere on an animal food chain, I would prefer to remove myself from it completely.

If the demand for meat drops, it will mean less artificial manipulation of the reproduction of meat producing livestock. In my opinion this would go a very long way toward solving a huge number of Earth's problems, so I feel really passionate about these issues.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by maus80]

[edit on 14-10-2008 by maus80]

There are times in this life when I find myself completely and utterly ashamed to be a member of the human race.


This is one of those times.


Mankind is truly the most wicked and savage beast of them all.

Nasty video - seen ones like this before - i am not against people eating meat as i am a meat eater myself - i am against the ways in which they go about killing and rearing animals - they should have freedom for one - and then instant death not long suffering, then once they are dead you can hack them how you want as they are not alive - no one can say stripping the skin off an animal whilst alive is right, and if you do you should be skinned alive yourself, in regards to circuses - there very bad least they are banned in uk (animal circuses) , zoo's are not much better, animals should be in the wild, and should we even help them if they are hurt in the wild - would a lion come help us if we were hurt - but then again we have evolved to a much higher state than them in some ways - so i think reserve parks are good only for when the animal needs help or if the actual main wild life area has been destroyed by humans or fire etc. personally i think we should just have huge buildings - miles high and wide where everyone in the country lives, then the rest of the country is for animals to live in.

I have not been able to bring myself to watch the video after reading the entire thread, but I have seen similar ones. I have been a vegetarian for 8 years (but not yet a vegan, I'm human and imperfect).

We are here to maximize our pleasure and minimize our pain ("our" referring to every living being). Plants do not have nervous systems and the book "The Secret Life of Plants" which claims plants show pain on polygraph tests has not been replicated scientifically to my knowledge. Also, we have to eat something, so I have no problem with eating plants.

That said, whether animals eat animals naturally or not, whether humans are designed to be carnivores or herbivores, whether animals are equal to or lesser than humans, whether animals have souls or not, shouldn't we as human stewards be trying to reduce pain to the bare minimum planetwide? A vegan or a near-vegan diet with only the bare minimum of meat necessary to survive would go far toward reducing worldwide pain.

I avoid animal products wherever I can, and if I'm in a swamp I swat as few mosquitos as I can. Animals do sometimes kill other animals, but by and large they do not have a choice. We humans do have a choice. Why not choose kindness and compassion? (And why do you love animals called pets but not animals called dinner?)