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Possibly the "SADDEST" documentary ever made....

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posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by philjwolf
 


Your assumption that this would require the starvation of animals is ignorant, obviously the population of livestock is in direction correlation with demand, so a mass reduction in demand would in return cause an enormous drop in the artificial insemination of livestock.

Why are all the obvious answers always met with the most opposition? It's easier to deny ignorance than to constantly work to find ways to excuse and explain it.




posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to maus:

Thanks for the reply maus, I almost detected some aggression there but I'll attribute it to the failings of the internet for conveying emotion and meaning!
Do you have any sites/books you would recommend that have good meals/diets? I was under the impression that it was more expensive, and you gave me a few examples that help clear that up. I think it would be informative for this thread to have some good information (deny ignorance) as to how to have a little meat or no meat diet.

Oh wanted to add: I understand the supply and demand thing, things won't change much while the DEMAND for meat is so high, but part of the reason the demand for veggie isn't as high is the perception that supply is lower, and doesn't fulfill the dietary requirements. When I get home (I'm in class) I will post a quote from my health book that mentions how there are certain nutrients that can ONLY be had from meat. They could be wrong (making me wrong lol) and it is one side of the argument so if you could provide some alternative data I would appreciate it (not from a health food store's website please
).

[edit on 10/13/2008 by uberdave223]



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by uberdave223
 


I'm sorry, my aggression is toward commonly sited arguments that are fundamentally flawed, such as meat being essential and healthy food being too expensive. I know that I've come off like a real jerk in this thread, I'm just really passionate about this and hardly ever heard anyone making arguments I can stand behind, so it seems like an impossible cause. I do not have any good resources to point you to, but I can say that there are a lot of them out there. The information is so common that google will finish most of your search strings for you.

As for meat containing nutrients that are exclusive and essential, I have found no evidence that this is true. Our closest relatives, other primates, grow quite large and do quite well without meat. While some primates do occasionally eat meat, it is generally socially motivated and considered deviant from their natural behavior. Since humans, who are also primates, show an endless tendency to deviate from natural behavior, this is not surprising.

I'm not a vegan, and like I said I do not think the dairy and poultry industries should be eliminated, only drastically reformed. For the most part I also do not have a problem with self sustaining fisheries.



[edit on 13-10-2008 by maus80]



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 08:49 PM
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HUMANS HAVE WANTS
HUMANS HAVE NEEDS
Eating is one of our needs
Eating meat is one of our needs
We kill to get meat (this is the where the problem arise)

At the fundamental level you cannot deny that to kill other species is a inherent need of the human race. The question is is it for our WANTS or our NEEDS.

Take for example the killing of animals in large scale for meat. It is done because the human race needs meat. Our intricate minds complicate our views of killing for food too much and we put so much meaning to it, but if you look at our standing here on earth, we are animals they animals and animals kill for food so if we kill masses of animals the most efficient way in order for us to feed the rest of our species its just us as animals killing to feed ourselves. Im not saying we think like animals but im just saying sometimes we need to just think things at the most fundamental and basic level. Killing for food is an example of us killing for our NEEDS just as our caveman ancestors did killing mammoths for a variety of their needs. In my opinion killing for our NEEDS is a righteous and reasonable way for us to kill animals.

Killing and using animals for our WANTS on the other hand is a complicated matter and I think Philosophers that are Phd in Ethics or some crap like that are the ones who can really look at the matter on all angles and arrive at a philosophical conclusion whether it is righteous or not or to what extent. But for my own opinion I think killing animals for our WANTS like killing them for their furs and hunting are sometimes reasonable and sometimes not. Killing animals for hunting as a form of enjoyment is a way to decrease animal population so they would not meddle within human settlements, it is a form of population control and there is only a season for it while killing for their furs is a bad something bad and should be avoided because we can certainly live without wearing them.

As for the concept of specisism I think there is no such thing. I kill millions of millions of bacteria of different species everyday, alcohol on my hands is basically like a holocaust to them, and im indifferent to them, I have killed thousands of ants in my life sometimes in purpose I destroy their anthills with pesticide, their babies I seen them carry to safety and their big fat queen I seen crawling to safety, I dont care cause im stronger than you and you meddle with my life so I kill you. Does that make me a specicist?



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 09:43 PM
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This is the natural curse of things. We need animals for clothes, food, and many other million things. Its not wrong, of course i hate it when we abuse animals by hunting them just for pleasure, make unnesacerly experiments and exploiting them for industrial reasons, or even when used as entertaiment in a circus and in zoo's.
Respect the animal for what it is and what it's offering you, point.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 10:31 PM
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Guys we don't NEED to kill animals for food nor anything else. You can have all your WANTS, but please be careful to speak for yourself.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 11:04 PM
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Clips like this of the world were meant to be put together side-by-side. It's like looking at every downfall you've ever had, or every flaw on your body, it makes you wanna cry and shoot yourself more than ever.

If we think America is such a great Nation, then maybe we'd like to take a look at that video and see what it was built upon... its really sad.

Nice vid, thank.




posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 11:05 PM
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We should not take ourselves so darn seriously!
What a gift we have been given in life.
We should enjoy it and be thankful.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 11:16 PM
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Ok i watched the whole video and the thing that annoyed the hell out of me is the video starts by saying "These are standard industry practices". This is quite wrong! That is what 'm angry about, animals being skinned alive isn't industry standard here in the UK.

This biased video takes footage from countries where they don't have standards (China) and passes it off as a worldwide example. It takes the worst parts, maybe even some accidents and apsses it off as normal.

That is what is annoying me.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by Shar_Chi
 


yes we do, and i think is the best way, at least for me. What are you suggesting? People should eat only corn, and all kinds of vegetarian food?

No, we are carnivors, that is wy we are borne with canines, so we can eat meat. In my opinion, my life would be perfect just with a isolated home on the beautiful mountains of my country, hunting for food and clothing. The simplier the better.
Some of you may laugh of my conceptions about how human life should be but the hell with it... We dont need not one of the things that has been created till this day, look where it brought us, just misery, pain and a hole lot of sick and crazy people.

Don't care about science, religion or any other man made artificial points upon life, wich for me means just pointless conversation. With in a society you cannot have free thought, it is influenced be other people bad or good, by will or just by accident.

sorry again for my bad english



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


yeah I did watch the video. Don't get me wrong, but in the old times, people used spears, arrows, and knives to kill their prey. The animal will suffer but it was the only way people back then can kill their prey. These days are different, I understand. If the bolt gun works, then thats fine. I'm only justifying a proper way, and if I was to kill my prey, it would be with whatever I got. Just know that if i had a bolt gun or anything that would make a less suffering for the animal, I will use it.


This video has sadden my heart. I dislike the idea of throat slitting but like i said, if there are more humane methods, I will use it. Just brings back memories when i was a kid. They used the throat slit method to kill wild pigs and deers. It was a very sad experience for me.



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by maus80
 


Look, the man used meat to this day but more especially in the past not only for food as much as for energy. People actually need energy to engage a physical action, a hard one. It contains fat. Of course now if you see all of those fat people in working in a office all day i can see why you claim we do not need meat. Butt still, you my get your proteins from somewhere else but you cant get energy.
Say this... try for a week to eat only vegetarian food, and at the same time spend about 4-5 hours a day involved in some physical action. Do that and lets see how do you feel after. Then speak of alternatives, or replacing meat.



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by karamazov feodor
 

You are wrong, I've been vego for 10 years, and 7% of the world is vego, that's over 500000000 people. So, as I said before, please speak for yourself, as I (for one) am not included in your "we"



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by karamazov feodor
 


When I want quick energy I eat things like oranges, mixed nuts, toast, corn chips with salsa and guacamole dip, trail mix, yogurt with mixed fruit, egg rolls and fried rice.

Really, I think you guys are just making any excuse you can think of to continue your self indulgence. There is a reason obesity is so rampant. People want what they want, in whatever amounts they can get it.

It takes an evolution of social and personal consciousness to see the larger picture and make choices that truly benefit the individual, society, and the world as a whole.

The choices being made on a global scale are not truly benefiting the individual, society, or the world as a whole. So it is not a jump in logic to ask people to accept that what is the norm is quite possibly not the best way of doing things.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by maus80]



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by non-living
 


The bolt gun is no good because of the chemicals released from the brain afterward, to the rest of the animal's body. Apparently not too good for us humans to intake.



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 12:42 AM
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The video seemed a bit out of date. I think the latest shot was taken in 2000. Since then there has been many laws passed as to conditions slaughter houses must meet. Of course I'm not naive to think that they all meet these requirements. I eat meat, I enjoy mean and even after watching this dated movie I will continue to enjoy my T bone steak. Why? Well because I like it and I get great pleasure fom eating a well prepared medium rare steak.

I don't expect vegetarians to understand this and that is fine. What I do expect vegetarians to understand is that I don't need them to try and force their choice on me. Animals were put here on earth to feed humans. God didn't give Adam and Eve protein capsules, he gave them meat. Until I hear that eating meat causes cancer, aids or any other disease then I will continue to enjoy my well prepared, marinated, tender, juicy medium rare steak.

P.S. I also enjoy pork and chicken and will even after watching this documentary.



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by maus80
reply to post by karamazov feodor
 


When I want quick energy I eat things like oranges, mixed nuts, toast, corn chips with salsa and guacamole dip, trail mix, yogurtwith mixed fruit, egg rolls and fried rice.

Really, I think you guys are just making any excuse you can think of to continue your self indulgence. There is a reason obesity is so rampant. People want what they want, in whatever amounts they can get it.

It takes an evolution of social and personal consciousness to see the larger picture and make choices that truly benefit the individual, society, and the world as a whole.

The choices being made on a global scale are not truly benefiting the individual, society, or the world as a whole. So it is not a jump in logic to ask people to accept that what is the norm is quite possibly not the best way of doing things.

[edit on 14-10-2008 by maus80]


yogurt is made with milk. Where do you think milk comes from?



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 01:58 AM
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Fruit isn't high in protein. Fruit doesn't have leather, or bones that have been used for tools. Not all places can grow fruit. Why wouldn't a farmer grow fruit, and have animals for meat? Variety is good for diet.


Protein is produced naturally in the body and there is MORE than enough produced on a daily basis to keep the body going. You do not, unless you have a disease which affects this negatively, need to supplement protein into your body. That is not an argument.

The point I think people are trying to make is that when a lion kills a cow or whatever, it does this out of a natural need to feed. Humans CAN eat meat, but they do not need it as a necessity to survive. And you can't say that a lion could decide to eat some vegetables (which it very well could, but that's not how nature was designed unfortunately), but you can't really compare the decision making/intelligence level that Humans have, and the knowledge of their situation and surroundings, to what a lion's would be.

Humanity shouldn't be wiped out because of what these people did to the animals, and neither should those who choose to eat meat. The people who treated these animals like this, and thought it was hilarious are the one's that should be, nobody else.



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 02:22 AM
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reply to post by jd140
 


I don't remember saying anything about having a problem with where milk comes from, I haven't discussed the dairy industry at all except to say that I think it is badly in need of reform.



posted on Oct, 14 2008 @ 02:28 AM
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