reply to maus:

Thanks for the reply maus, I almost detected some aggression there but I'll attribute it to the failings of the internet for conveying emotion and meaning! Do you have any sites/books you would recommend that have good meals/diets? I was under the impression that it was more expensive, and you gave me a few examples that help clear that up. I think it would be informative for this thread to have some good information (deny ignorance) as to how to have a little meat or no meat diet.

Oh wanted to add: I understand the supply and demand thing, things won't change much while the DEMAND for meat is so high, but part of the reason the demand for veggie isn't as high is the perception that supply is lower, and doesn't fulfill the dietary requirements. When I get home (I'm in class) I will post a quote from my health book that mentions how there are certain nutrients that can ONLY be had from meat. They could be wrong (making me wrong lol) and it is one side of the argument so if you could provide some alternative data I would appreciate it (not from a health food store's website please ).

[edit on 10/13/2008 by uberdave223]

HUMANS HAVE WANTS
HUMANS HAVE NEEDS
Eating is one of our needs
Eating meat is one of our needs
We kill to get meat (this is the where the problem arise)

At the fundamental level you cannot deny that to kill other species is a inherent need of the human race. The question is is it for our WANTS or our NEEDS.

Take for example the killing of animals in large scale for meat. It is done because the human race needs meat. Our intricate minds complicate our views of killing for food too much and we put so much meaning to it, but if you look at our standing here on earth, we are animals they animals and animals kill for food so if we kill masses of animals the most efficient way in order for us to feed the rest of our species its just us as animals killing to feed ourselves. Im not saying we think like animals but im just saying sometimes we need to just think things at the most fundamental and basic level. Killing for food is an example of us killing for our NEEDS just as our caveman ancestors did killing mammoths for a variety of their needs. In my opinion killing for our NEEDS is a righteous and reasonable way for us to kill animals.

Killing and using animals for our WANTS on the other hand is a complicated matter and I think Philosophers that are Phd in Ethics or some crap like that are the ones who can really look at the matter on all angles and arrive at a philosophical conclusion whether it is righteous or not or to what extent. But for my own opinion I think killing animals for our WANTS like killing them for their furs and hunting are sometimes reasonable and sometimes not. Killing animals for hunting as a form of enjoyment is a way to decrease animal population so they would not meddle within human settlements, it is a form of population control and there is only a season for it while killing for their furs is a bad something bad and should be avoided because we can certainly live without wearing them.

As for the concept of specisism I think there is no such thing. I kill millions of millions of bacteria of different species everyday, alcohol on my hands is basically like a holocaust to them, and im indifferent to them, I have killed thousands of ants in my life sometimes in purpose I destroy their anthills with pesticide, their babies I seen them carry to safety and their big fat queen I seen crawling to safety, I dont care cause im stronger than you and you meddle with my life so I kill you. Does that make me a specicist?

This is the natural curse of things. We need animals for clothes, food, and many other million things. Its not wrong, of course i hate it when we abuse animals by hunting them just for pleasure, make unnesacerly experiments and exploiting them for industrial reasons, or even when used as entertaiment in a circus and in zoo's.
Respect the animal for what it is and what it's offering you, point.

Guys we don't NEED to kill animals for food nor anything else. You can have all your WANTS, but please be careful to speak for yourself.

Clips like this of the world were meant to be put together side-by-side. It's like looking at every downfall you've ever had, or every flaw on your body, it makes you wanna cry and shoot yourself more than ever.

If we think America is such a great Nation, then maybe we'd like to take a look at that video and see what it was built upon... its really sad.

Nice vid, thank.

We should not take ourselves so darn seriously!
What a gift we have been given in life.
We should enjoy it and be thankful.

Ok i watched the whole video and the thing that annoyed the hell out of me is the video starts by saying "These are standard industry practices". This is quite wrong! That is what 'm angry about, animals being skinned alive isn't industry standard here in the UK.

This biased video takes footage from countries where they don't have standards (China) and passes it off as a worldwide example. It takes the worst parts, maybe even some accidents and apsses it off as normal.

That is what is annoying me.

The video seemed a bit out of date. I think the latest shot was taken in 2000. Since then there has been many laws passed as to conditions slaughter houses must meet. Of course I'm not naive to think that they all meet these requirements. I eat meat, I enjoy mean and even after watching this dated movie I will continue to enjoy my T bone steak. Why? Well because I like it and I get great pleasure fom eating a well prepared medium rare steak.

I don't expect vegetarians to understand this and that is fine. What I do expect vegetarians to understand is that I don't need them to try and force their choice on me. Animals were put here on earth to feed humans. God didn't give Adam and Eve protein capsules, he gave them meat. Until I hear that eating meat causes cancer, aids or any other disease then I will continue to enjoy my well prepared, marinated, tender, juicy medium rare steak.

P.S. I also enjoy pork and chicken and will even after watching this documentary.

Fruit isn't high in protein. Fruit doesn't have leather, or bones that have been used for tools. Not all places can grow fruit. Why wouldn't a farmer grow fruit, and have animals for meat? Variety is good for diet.

Protein is produced naturally in the body and there is MORE than enough produced on a daily basis to keep the body going. You do not, unless you have a disease which affects this negatively, need to supplement protein into your body. That is not an argument.

The point I think people are trying to make is that when a lion kills a cow or whatever, it does this out of a natural need to feed. Humans CAN eat meat, but they do not need it as a necessity to survive. And you can't say that a lion could decide to eat some vegetables (which it very well could, but that's not how nature was designed unfortunately), but you can't really compare the decision making/intelligence level that Humans have, and the knowledge of their situation and surroundings, to what a lion's would be.

Humanity shouldn't be wiped out because of what these people did to the animals, and neither should those who choose to eat meat. The people who treated these animals like this, and thought it was hilarious are the one's that should be, nobody else.