Originally posted by Cythraul
Agree with all your points, but I'm not sure the OP or video were trying to suggest that this represents the farming industry (haven't watched the video so I might be wrong), just that it represents the very real, significantly widespread, negative side of the farming industry. Most people think all farming is quite humane, maybe a bit cramped but nothing horrifying. The extreme terrible side of it is largely unknown to most people and I'm glad it's being brought to people's attention. Sure, there'll always be people who can watch a video like that and see nothing wrong with it - but I'll not waste my words saying what I think about those soulless human beings . Meat doesn't (and shouldn't ever) have to = cruelty and sadism. [/quote

Actually the video starts with the phrase "industry standards" and so yes it's claiming to show the majority of farming practices. I should maybe point out that here in the UK, some of these practices are actually illegal. I'm wondering if they're legal in the USA? I know for a fact that PETA and other organisations have used footage of illegal farming practices to further their cause. I seem to recall someone from PETA using footage froma polish farm and passing it off as american. I'll try and find a link for that to back it up

PETA for example love to have a go at veal farmers, yet here in the UK veal farming is very humane. They are not chained to the floor, kept in dark cabins and fed milk. This is a myth put aobut by animal rights activists. It may go on in other countries but not here in the UK, at least not legally.

I think you're slightly naieve though, to feed the world requires some horrible practices. Battery farming chickens is absolutely awful and yet required to provide the eggs the world needs. I personally don't buy eggs from battery chickens because i visited battery farms and was horrified. Luckily my local farm has free range eggs and if i buy them direct they're cheaper anyway

Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
I will still eat meat, own dogs, and not give a damn about the eco nuts.....That is my truth...Oh and just for that video I am going to slowly cut down my Christmas tree.

You sir, are a hypocrite. You can not even follow the advice of the quote you have in your signature.

“Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.”
Winston Churchill

You made that statement like it was some badge of honor, like you were proud that you feel this way. You, sadly, are a true human being (refer to my previous post for further clarification of this statement), the kind that gives us all a bad name.

All I can say is you need to have the "courage" to sit down and listen to the suffering in the animal kingdom. Listen to the suffering of the people who have seen this video. I can only hope that one day you have the "courage" to admit the ignorance of your statement. I bet you did not even have the "courage" to watch that video in its entirety. You sir, are a coward.


[edit on 13-10-2008 by BluegrassRevolutionary]

You show you care more about animals than people, congrats. People like me you make into the enemy when we care more about people than you. Anyone that values animals above people is an animal themselves. I like how you think you have such high values in your protection of animals yet you say you wouldn't feed someone with an opinion like mine, and hope all people that do, die. Great ethics there, Hitler would be proud.



You make me sick!! How can anyone say someone is like Hitler just because they have love and compassion for animals. Just because you have authority and power over something does NOT give you the right to harm or kill it. Shame on you- as you are the animal here.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I think you're slightly naieve though, to feed the world requires some horrible practices.

Naivety or Idealism? To feed a healthy world population does not require factory farming in an ideal world. We made natural killing/farming work for far longer than modern factory farming. But then again, I'm somewhat of a Primitivist.

Originally posted by LostChildrenOfBabylon
After watching a movie like this it just really enforces my belief that humanity should be wiped off the face of this earth. We cannot let this continue. 1% of our population controls 40% of the world...

To be honest I find it surprising that more people don't know about how animals are treated. I eat meat but I do so knowing how it arrives to me in a packet. If people are so appalled by the way in which animals are treated, which tends to boil down to the economic principles of delivering affordable food to people, then they should not eat meat, eggs or consume dairy products; or they should be willing to pay more for their food so that animals can be treated more fairly.

If you don't want this to continue then the only way to stop what is happening is to reduce demand for animal products. The only way to do that is to stop eating and using animal derived products. The only problem here is that in doing so, since a huge majority of global population is extremely poor, where there is little water and an excess of sunshine, the human population will die without their goats and other animals. They depend upon animals to co-exist.

The problem really isn't a simple one and wiping out the totality of the human population on earth is probably not a good solution. That's a quite singularly bad idea.

Many Regards,

Tytanius

[edit on 13-10-2008 by Tytanius]


Mod edit: Video link removed. -- Majic

[edit on 10/16/2008 by Majic]

Originally posted by Cythraul
Naivety or Idealism? To feed a healthy world population does not require factory farming in an ideal world. We made natural killing/farming work for far longer than modern factory farming. But then again, I'm somewhat of a Primitivist.

Well that undermines your arguement by being a primitivist. When you say we used to do it without these methods, that was before we had 6 billion people on this earth. I should point out that if we had say, 1 billion people, then we could use natural farming methods and all live very well. I will yield however to your idea that you are being idealist rather than naieve.

However whilst i love your idealism, i have to be logical about the current situation.

Isn't there a billion people a day that don't get enough food to live . I do agree there should be more humane ways of killing animals. But id love to hear a plan to feed 6billion people on veggies alone?? We cant even meet world food grain needs because people are running there cars on it.

I respect a persons right to be a vegetarian but i hate when they preach meat is murder. We as humans need to consume food to live , yet in a world with so much starvation people need to be more realistic . thanks for your time

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Well that undermines your arguement by being a primitivist.

I don't quite understand how it does. Care to elaborate?

Originally posted by rickyrrr
For every cute furry animal that we hurt or kill there are countless ugly animals killed by other animals. All of the animal kingdom is cruel. The only difference is that humans have a conscience and either get neurotic about it or find means to conceal the cruel truth from themselves, while other carnivores simply enjoy their kill.

There's a big difference between killing an animal in an efficient, natural manner and taking joy in bashing it over the head for several minutes with a blunt object whilst laughing or grinning with joy. Animal predators kill through necessity in an efficient, evolved way. Humans SHOULD do the same. Our issue is with those skinning animals alive, kosher and halal methods, seal-clubbing, fox-hunting... basically - sadism.

[edit on 13/10/2008 by Cythraul]

Jesus Christ. I just watched most of it.. then at around the 55minute mark I saw something that will probably haunt me forever. Unbelievable.

Excuse me whilst I go and throw up.

Good to see this documentary show up here again! When I first saw it, I too cried like a baby. VERY well made IMHO. This video was the final nail in the coffin of my meat eating days. I feel great not eating animals...there's really no need. But what I always find interesting is how people will defend, to the death, the fact that "God gave me sharp teeth and they're meant for meat" or "I'm smarter than an animal and so that animal deserves to be on my plate". It's very sad. I think when people counter argue against seeing something so brutal and soulless, they're simply doing it to justify their belly. I've given up sharing videos like this because people just don't wanna see and hear how their bacon got to their gut. Sad we live in such a world of accepted brutality...

Originally posted by Eighty59
I've given up sharing videos like this because people just don't wanna see and hear how their bacon got to their gut. Sad we live in such a world of accepted brutality...

Not that I'm particularly pro-active in trying to promote animal rights (I wish I had the time), but if someone else hadn't shared this video with you, you might still just about be eating meat, right? You could share this video with 100 people and 99 of them might turn a blind eye, but it's worth it for that 1 person who gets a wake-up call and might choose to reject cruel methods of food production.