Christian Masons???

Excuse me again lol ...

You claim to believe in tolerance of all ..
Why then would an Athiest be excluded ?Do you not consider that being intolerant of a particular belief?

Even Church peoples do not tell you have to believe in God to come to church .
Everyone is welcome ....(I am not sticking up for church here lol because I personally do not agree with MOST of what goes on in them ) .......

And if it is not a religion of sorts ..why even put God in it at all ?
Why not just say .....you have to believe in the Golden Rule (or something similar)

Are New Agers (many gods or aliens are god or man is god etc) are they allowed in ?

reply to post by Simplynoone


There's a difference between beliefs and religions.
Masonry is tolerant of beliefs, however it is a Fraternity based on religion.
While not religious of itself, it is built on religion, and as such there are several references to religion in it.

Solomon's temple is a fairly obvious example.
Atheism, true atheism, is not a religion. As such, the religious references would be hollow.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
You claim to believe in tolerance of all ..
Why then would an Athiest be excluded ?Do you not consider that being intolerant of a particular belief?

Probably because you are choosing to ignore what tolerance actually means. Tolerance means that you accept that other people will believe different than you and they have a right to believe in whatever they choose to believe in.

Freemasonry, like THE BOY SCOUTS, requires a belief in God. It has nothing to do with masons tolerating the existence of atheists. In fact, there are irregular masonic bodies atheists can join if they want to.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Even Church peoples do not tell you have to believe in God to come to church .
Everyone is welcome ....(I am not sticking up for church here lol because I personally do not agree with MOST of what goes on in them ) .......

And the point to this is...? You keep trying to compare what churches to do what lodges do, when in reality is a invalid comparison because - as we have established - freemasonry is not a religion. I would not expect a fraternity to act like a religion.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
And if it is not a religion of sorts ..why even put God in it at all ?
Why not just say .....you have to believe in the Golden Rule (or something similar)

You act as if nothing ever involves God unless its religion. You are, yet again, ignoring that God can be involved in things that have nothing to do with religion, like:

- The boy scouts
- Most college fraternities/sororities
- Most openings of every major government body, including the Congress of the United States - what do you think an invocation is?
- Every graduation from any level of education (yet again, invocations)

God is involved because masons believe that no great undertaking should ever be done without the aid of God - is there a problem with that? Would you disagree?

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Are New Agers (many gods or aliens are god or man is god etc) are they allowed in ?

Sure they are, as long as they believe in 1 supreme being who is the architect of the universe.

[edit on 26-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]

St. John's Commandery is a Catholic 'Masonic' Group that has a "Lodge" here in Schenectady where I live. The have meetings there every so often, but only members get to participate. Someone like me wouldn't be allowed within the building. There is another Catholic Masonic Lodge type organization whose name escapes me right now. I'll have to look it up and post it to this thread as well.

OPUS DAY is the other Roman Catholic Masonic Group I was thinking of. It's funny how the name came to me right after I posted my last reply to this thread.

Originally posted by Wally Conley
OPUS DAY is the other Roman Catholic Masonic Group I was thinking of. It's funny how the name came to me right after I posted my last reply to this thread.

You have got to be kidding me. There is no Masonic Catholic group. The Commandery is park of the York Rite, which is not Catholic. Seriously, you could find this out in 5 minutes. The Vatican formally forbids any Catholic from being a Mason.

I think your taking the DaVinci code as real when its FICTION.

By the way, we have non-masons in our building all the time. We give tours for free. I've never seen a lodge that doesn't.


[edit on 26-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]

reply to post by Wally Conley


Opus Dei is a denomination of the Roman Catholic Church that is particularly strict.
It has nothing to do with Masonry, though.
en.wikipedia.org...

That makes no sense ..if it is a get together of peoples who believe in a God (any God) it is technically similar to what church is ..they are a group of peoples who believe in a God who get together and do their rituals (same as you all doing your rituals) etc ...they study the word together ..yall study your handbook ...they tithe for charity etc ..yall tithe for charity ...
I really do not see any major difference at all .........
And Boy Scouts dont tell you that you must believe in God to be a part of them..Neither do Girlscouts (At least not that I remember) ...it has been a long time since I was in brownies and girlscouts ...

And this
[Sure they are, as long as they believe in 1 supreme being who is the architect of the universe. ]

The New Agers believe in about 12 Gods ..more actually (ascended masters) with no 1 God involved ...not 1 supreme being ..
Those who believe Aliens created us do not believe in 1 God either ..
Then there are those who say they are God (that man is god)...is that the same as believing in 1 God ?

Originally posted by Simplynoone
That makes no sense ..if it is a get together of peoples who believe in a God (any God) it is technically similar to what church is ..

Yes, yes it does make sense. You do not want to see it though. Do you also think the Congress is a religion because they say a prayer before every session? Are the Boy Scouts a religion too?

Lots of people believe in God, and when they get together its not a church. A church is when people who believe in the same God get together for worship and to hear teachings about the religion.

Its about as similar to a church as the Rotary club is to the United Kingdom's House of Commons.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
they are a group of peoples who believe in a God who get together and do their rituals (same as you all doing your rituals) etc ...they study the word together ..yall study your handbook ...they tithe for charity etc ..yall tithe for charity ...
I really do not see any major difference at all .........

Only because you want to make freemasonry into something that it is not.

A church is for worship and teachings on a religion. A lodge is for the study of masonic philosophy and to do some charity. Rituals are not religion, every day you get up its a ritual.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
And Boy Scouts dont tell you that you must believe in God to be a part of them..Neither do Girlscouts (At least not that I remember) ...it has been a long time since I was in brownies and girlscouts ...

Um actually yes, yes the Boy Scouts do. Always have. It was SUCH a big deal that the ACLU tried to sue them over it. Yet, somehow you are ignoring it...like you do with everything else.

Q. Can an individual who states that he does not believe in God be a volunteer Scout leader or member?
A. No. The Scout Oath represents the basic values of Scouting, and it addresses the issue of “duty to God” before duty to country, others, and self.

Source: www.bsalegal.org...

Originally posted by Simplynoone
The New Agers believe in about 12 Gods ..more actually (ascended masters) with no 1 God involved ...not 1 supreme being ..
Those who believe Aliens created us do not believe in 1 God either ..
Then there are those who say they are God (that man is god)...is that the same as believing in 1 God ?

No, no they do not. I highly recommend you do some research into the New Age movement, as it is impossible to claim how many gods "new agers" believe in. Some believe in 1, some 1,000. Its highly variable. And no, proclaiming you are god won't work since you didn't create the Universe.

[edit on 26-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Ok then if you say so .
Sorry to have bothered you .
Everytime I read this thread it just brings more questions to my mind .




[edit on 26-10-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
That makes no sense ..if it is a get together of peoples who believe in a God (any God) it is technically similar to what church is ..they are a group of peoples who believe in a God who get together and do their rituals (same as you all doing your rituals) etc

It is not the same. Religious dogma does not enter into Masonry as it does not distinguish between an individual Mason's beliefs so they therefore can not and do not perform these actions in lodge. In a Roman Catholic church you would not have the opportunity to behave in the same way as you would in a Southern Baptist Ministry. How would a Jew be treated if he offered to pray in Hebrew at a Born Again Christian church?

Or rituals are to impart an allegorical lesson and not to provide a path to salvation as the attendence and worship at a religious institution offer.

...they study the word together ..yall study your handbook ...

The study of the Masonic ritual cipher becomes optional once you complete the Third Degree.

they tithe for charity etc ..yall tithe for charity ...

We typically rasie money for charity. A tithe is standard accpeted percentage of ones income that you are expected to donate to ones church. Monetary donations are optional in Masonry.

I really do not see any major difference at all .........

How about now?

And Boy Scouts dont tell you that you must believe in God to be a part of them..

Uh, yes they do...

And this
[Sure they are, as long as they believe in 1 supreme being who is the architect of the universe. ]

The New Agers believe in about 12 Gods ..more actually (ascended masters) with no 1 God involved ...not 1 supreme being ..
Those who believe Aliens created us do not believe in 1 God either ..
Then there are those who say they are God (that man is god)...is that the same as believing in 1 God ?

That is an odd question considering you already posted the answer in your queery. One God means one God. Not one God equals twelve Gods or one God equals Aliens acting as Gods. God, singular, not Gods, plural.

[edit on 26-10-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

Augustus ...Lowlevel said yes they would be allowed ..when he already told me they need to just believe in 1 Supreme being .....
So which is it yes or no ?

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Are New Agers (many gods or aliens are god or man is god etc) are they allowed in ?


Lowlevelmason said this ..
[Sure they are, as long as they believe in 1 supreme being who is the architect of the universe]

As I pointed out .many New Age Religions believe in many supreme beings ..not 1 supreme one.
Alien beliefs say that a bunch of alien creatures all made us like working on a scientific experiment ....There is not one head honcho supreme being as far as I know in that belief ..


Besides what if an Athiest came in and just said ..sure I believe in 1 God ..just to join up ? Lots of people take oaths and lie about things everyday in court ... ......

reply to post by Simplynoone


I know a Wiccan, she believes in one over all creator and was accepted into the Eastern Star.

"New Agers" Create their own religion. They take parts of old religion, new religion, books, ect. Mix it all together and let it simmer on the back stove.

So, providing they believe in one Creator God, they can be accepted, though I think it sort of depends on the lodge as well.

As for church:
Go in, greet the preacher, attend Mass, partake of the sacrament, sing a few songs, listen to some reading from the Bible, story from the preacher, end mass.

Lodge meeting (roughly)
Enter, take care of old business, new business, rituals if there are any, dinner, then leave.
There are no books to study, and I'm not really sure of any songs sung by Masons.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Augustus ...Lowlevel said yes they would be allowed ..when he already told me they need to just believe in 1 Supreme being .....
So which is it yes or no ?

Did you read and comprehend our answers or are you purposely being obtuse?

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Are New Agers (many gods or aliens are god or man is god etc) are they allowed in ?


Lowlevelmason said this ..
[Sure they are, as long as they believe in 1 supreme being who is the architect of the universe]

Exactly. ONE god, singular. Not Aliens as God, not multiple New Age Gods as God.. Aliens (if there are any) are living creatures, not a supreme being. Polytheism is not belief in a Supreme Being. God, not Gods.

As I pointed out .many New Age Religions believe in many supreme beings ..not 1 supreme one.

Then, once more, they would not qualify.

Alien beliefs say that a bunch of alien creatures all made us like working on a scientific experiment ....There is not one head honcho supreme being as far as I know in that belief ..

The plurality of the 'creators' would also exclude any who subscribed to this belief as well.

Besides what if an Athiest came in and just said ..sure I believe in 1 God ..just to join up ? Lots of people take oaths and lie about things everyday in court ... ......

We can not prevent people from lying but I feel that the lessons imparted by Masonry's allegorical rituals would be hollow and meaningless and they would receive no benefit from participating in them.








[edit on 26-10-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by RuneSpider
So, providing they believe in one Creator God, they can be accepted, though I think it sort of depends on the lodge as well.

Belief in a Supreme Being is all that is required. No one will ask you whether you call it God, Jesus, Gaia or the Almighty Cabbage. It is none of our business and strictly for you to reconcile with yourself.

Lodge meeting (roughly)
...and I'm not really sure of any songs sung by Masons.

We usually sing the National Anthem after we salute the Flag. There is also a hymn we sing during the Master Mason degree.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
There is also a hymn we sing during the Master Mason degree.

"Tear the Roof Off the Sucker (Give up the Funk)" by Parliament Funkadelic (with lyrics by Bro. Robert Burns)? No wait. That's just the singing I hear in my head...

Yeah, the funeral dirge is the only bit in the Blue Lodge. Our Scottish Rite group will usually go in for a chorus of "America the Beautiful" or a similar patriotic standard from time to time.

*** GEOGRAPHY ALERT ***

Originally posted by JoshNorton
Yeah, the funeral dirge is the only bit in the Blue Lodge. Our Scottish Rite group will usually go in for a chorus of "America the Beautiful" or a similar patriotic standard from time to time.

While this information may be correct for the US, in the UK (and England in particular) there can be a fair bit of singing. The Opening and Closing Odes are de rigueur, but in addition there may be additional singing during degree ceremonies. Furthermore at the Festive Board there would be perhaps half a dozen opportunities to break into song.

reply to post by Trinityman


Now you see, with the amount of regalia and medals that FreeMasons tend to accumulate (at least from the pictures I've seen)
I'm think of British Masons suddenly breaking into Grunge Rap songs...

...

I think I broke my funny bone.

You know, frankly, the thought of seeing masons break spontaneously into song is both amusing and disturbing - I can't be the only one among the brethren who is incapable of holding a note!

I guess I have been MOST lucky that most of the lodges I've been to never break into song.

i think you're going to find that every time you respond to a naysayer with words like "whack-o", "ignorant fundamentalist", "religious nut", "silly conspiracy theorist" or what have you, that you will in essence, accumulate more and more people who look suspiciously at masonry. the reason being is that, these ideas they are presenting are a part of their "religiously held belief" that might not be printed in any book but they still believe them, religiously, the same as an atheist, religiously holds to the idea that there's no architect. you have to assume as a human being, that others who also have a soul, will also have an opinion, and no matter how much you may disagree with it, calling them the things that some tend to call them, just insults them and does nothing to remove the suspicion. instead, it heightens it.

[edit on 26-10-2008 by undo]