work and labour camps for yobs and hoodies

I dont know about you but i am beyond fed up of these rats ruling our streets. Before vigilante justice becomes common place we need something other than ASBOs, they simply DO NOT WORK!!!. If the government came up with a sollution such as work or labour camps even for first time offenders, an show an absolute zero tollerance. Take for example, my brother plays for a local football team and during the match a player called another player on his own team mate a muppet, and his reaction was to get a stanly knife out of his bag and try and cut him. He was on an ASBO at the time. These scum of society use them as a social status. we need something to be implimented NOW!!!!

all views and opinions welcome.

ASBO...... Anti-social Behaviour Order.

[edit on 12-10-2008 by AmbroseRokewood]

I can appreciate the sentiment, as ASBOs don't really work at all. In my opinion, it's a flimsy gesture by a government wanting to be seen to do something. Whereas, everyone is aware that it's something that's either not taken very seriously or even used as a perverse badge of honour.

However, work camps? Whilst, again, I appreciate the desire to have these people do something productive, but once this particular train of thought starts, where does it stop?

This is a very dangerous road to go down.

unfortunatly at this point in time, i feel it has gone beyond the means of the current justice system. Prisons dont work as they are full of re-offenders. The only option i see is to put the scum in the mind set of if i do wrong i will go away and loose my freedom. Extreme times call for Extreme measures.

Originally posted by AmbroseRokewood
unfortunatly at this point in time, i feel it has gone beyond the means of the current justice system. Prisons dont work as they are full of re-offenders. The only option i see is to put the scum in the mind set of if i do wrong i will go away and loose my freedom.

I think you're making a mistake by thinking it's gone beyond the current justice system, simply because the justice system is only part of the issue here. We need to look at why we're getting these pillocks in the first place, not just how we should deal with them.

You say: "The only option i see is to put the scum in the mind set of if i do wrong i will go away and loose my freedom", but isn't that what prisons do, take away people's 'freedom'? Didn't you say that prisons don't work?

How will your "work camps" be different in terms of being "full of re-offenders" than prisons? Or are you suggesting people never leave these work camps in the first place?

Extreme times call for Extreme measures.

And yet, half of this forum is afraid of the government using that exact same line.

Seriously, do you really want to go down the road of "labour camps"?

the work and labour camps would hold offenders from the age of 12 - 18, as this is the main age group which is terrorising our streets and neighbourhoods, The camps would run full education and teach a trade. get them interested in life beyond crime. Instill dicipline and respect into the youth once more. prisons are beyond saving. they are just stop gaps nowadays, somewhere to stay and be fed for free, thats the stand point most inmates have. we need society to change now, even if thats means i lose some of my civil liberties to be safe, then so be it.

Originally posted by AmbroseRokewood
the work and labour camps would hold offenders from the age of 12 - 18, as this is the main age group which is terrorising our streets and neighbourhoods, The camps would run full education and teach a trade. get them interested in life beyond crime. Instill dicipline and respect into the youth once more. prisons are beyond saving. they are just stop gaps nowadays, somewhere to stay and be fed for free, thats the stand point most inmates have. we need society to change now, even if thats means i lose some of my civil liberties to be safe, then so be it.

You're radically redefining what a "labour camp" is with this post. That's not a labour camp. You're offering "full education" and a "trade". It's obvious that you're British (like myself) but you must be aware of the recent government move to extend full-time education to 18 and the refocus of vocational skills; ie learning trades?

If what you are describing is a camp - which, by definition, is place that's not home - then you are suggesting somewhere that offers a "place to stay" and to be "fed for free" like prison. Or are you expecting people to pay to stay at your "labour camps". How is this different from what is being offered in a lot of youth detention now regarding education?

Also, if people are to stay until they are 18, how is that not a temporary, "stop gap" measure? What happens if I am sentenced when I am say, 17 years and 6 months? What will actually be achieved in that remaining 6 month period before I am 18 and, presumably, released from your "labour camp"? 6 months isn't enough to learn a trade or gain any realistic qualifications.

Again, I appreciate the sentiment behind this; we need change. However, what you're suggesting here doesn't really make sense, sorry.

These labour camps should last till 21.

The offenders that get put into them should be allowed a chance to repay society for the wrong that they have done.

The punishment should be 'slave labour' get them doing all the hard things, dig out new roads, foundations for buildings.

Anything that is a hard work. No luxuries, no visitors, no freedom.

Turn them away from the gangland crime that they like.

I no that it is the tax payers that will have to pay to house these fiends, but if it turns them away, and they help society by cleaning up the place then so be it

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
You say: "The only option i see is to put the scum in the mind set of if i do wrong i will go away and loose my freedom", but isn't that what prisons do, take away people's 'freedom'? Didn't you say that prisons don't work?

Our prisons don't work because they are more like holiday camps.

They have fully equipped modern gyms, access to tv, games consoles, sports equipment, they are allowed visitors, phone calls and the prison guards are likely to be in trouble any time they exact force to restrain prisoners.

Then there are the fact that the prison system seems to be completely powerless to stop the influx of drugs, alocohol and weapons.

Criminals can carry on their illegal businesses from prison through use of contacts that they can have visit them, phone, or even new conatct made within prison.

I know a policeman and he says that prisons are so 'soft' now that many drug dealers commit crimes to get themselves off the street and into prisons where there are far more customers.

I think we should have proper prisons, no visitors, no phone calls, no TV, no games, no enjoyment of any kind and completely cut off from the outside for the duration of their sentence make it the most unpleasant experience that is possible, otherwise there is no deterrant.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not advocating violence of any sort against criminals, thats just forcing people to be as bad as they are, I just think they should make prisons more prison-like

Prisons are like holiday camps at the moment and thats not going to stop anyone reoffending, and the soft image that they have attributed to them now will not deter people offending for the first time either.

Thats my oppinion anyway, and I also think that national service should be brought back, not forcing people into combat situations, but definitely basic training to bring back discipline and respect, which there is a distinct lack of these days.

I hear you, the national service is a good idea. Well apart from giving these hooligans weapon training.

The prisons are holiday camps. We dont have the power anymore to act against these criminals in jail, human rights and what not.

If your put in jail then you should suffer, in a cell no bigger than 8ft by 10ft. No luxuries. No tv. No nothing.

No early release either.

I visited a friend who was in prison, and let me say it was no country club. I don't know where any of you get your ideas of prison life, but I never want to go there. It is a life of hell and boredom. Someone to tell you when to eat, sleep, shower, etc. You cannot leave for a walk in the park or anything else.
The youth prisons are full of rape by their fellow inmates, and it is just as bad as the adult prisons if not worse.

To suggest they do the pouring of foundations and tough road work is taking work out of the hands of people who need jobs. (I have friends who do road construction and would not be happy with that solution) Prison work is free anyway, and that is a form of slave labor.

I have worked with troubled boys. What they need is guidance and activities to keep them occupied. It doesn't hurt to tell them no and to be strict when they need it. I had "wild" boys behaving very maturely as they knew I meant business. They also knew I did not talk down to them and would listen and help them with ANY problem. It is not always easy, but then nothing really is.

I do agree they should have military type training camps for first time and misdemeanor offenders. It would have to be monitored, as in the US there were a few problems that closed a successful program for many young men. This is much better than warehousing them until they are 21, and releasing an angry adult male to the population.

Workamps for 12-18 year olds?
Great idea (sarcasm)
What next? Tattoo numbers on their arms? RFID chip them?
I got a better idea to solve the whole problem for you.
How about we just take children from birth, and put them into holding cells where they will be fed psychotropic drugs and conditioned to never commit violence?
Better yet we could bolster our military forces with them like the movie "soldier" (yes that is all sarcasm)
There is a time and place for your ideas, but fortunately for us all nazi germany doesn't exist anymore.
There are ways to deal with out of control teenagers but what you are proposing is well, insane.
However I'm sure the elitists would love you're idea, maybe you should be the guest speaker at the next bilderberg meeting.

Originally posted by AmbroseRokewood
I dont know about you but i am beyond fed up of these rats ruling our streets. Before vigilante justice becomes common place we need something other than ASBOs, they simply DO NOT WORK!!!. If the government came up with a sollution such as work or labour camps even for first time offenders, an show an absolute zero tollerance. Take for example, my brother plays for a local football team and during the match a player called another player on his own team mate a muppet, and his reaction was to get a stanly knife out of his bag and try and cut him. He was on an ASBO at the time. These scum of society use them as a social status. we need something to be implimented NOW!!!!

all views and opinions welcome.

ASBO...... Anti-social Behaviour Order.

[edit on 12-10-2008 by AmbroseRokewood]

I think you are completely out of your mind.
Labor and work camps?
Do you want to be a mini Hitler?
Adolf Rokewood?Does it sound good?
You must either be an extremelly confused shallow minded person or just pure evil.

I am completely of sound mind thank you very much. Instead of trying to rouse an argument, why not voice your opinion on the subject and not on me.

I have to agree that this Asbos thing doesn't really work, and is seen as ' getting your stripes ' to some extent by the yobs. I know this suggestion would never be adopted, but I would love to see the return of the Stocks for Asbos type offences. Can you imagine the utter embarrassment of being locked into one of those contraptions for a couple of days while passers-by s'n-word'ed at you, and with no increase in your street cred from you peers.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by big gee]

Originally posted by AmbroseRokewood
I am completely of sound mind thank you very much. Instead of trying to rouse an argument, why not voice your opinion on the subject and not on me.

The fact that you just thanked me for nothing.
Makes me wonder if you are of such a sound mind as you think.
Also the fact that you just told me what I was trying to do.
When clearly, in reality, no one can ever really know what someone else is trying to do.
Shows me that perhaps your not totally insane just very simple?
Narrow minded?
Conditioned and brainwashed?
Cant think logically?Outside the zone is a NO GO zone?
And something else, you just told me to voice my opinion.
Which I clearly did.

I personally think labour camps are not the answer.

As a couple of members have already mentioned, taking away the
'luxuries' eg tv's and games consoles etc could hopefully go someway to deter most 'minor' (petty?) criminals from re-offending.

Did i read somewhere the highest percentage of inmates fall into the 'petty criminals' category? Perhaps we should be concentrating on why these people break the law in the first place?

Originally posted by logicalview
I personally think labour camps are not the answer.

As a couple of members have already mentioned, taking away the
'luxuries' eg tv's and games consoles etc could hopefully go someway to deter most 'minor' (petty?) criminals from re-offending.

I was thinking along the lines of their free time would be used to help boost the economy with a cheap labour force, and also not have to rely on migrant workers when we have the manpower already here doing nothing. True taking away luxuries will deter a few inmates but not all. This way would be a deterrant for all criminals. You offend you do the time and work.

Did i read somewhere the highest percentage of inmates fall into the 'petty criminals' category? Perhaps we should be concentrating on why these people break the law in the first place?

It is true a lot of the inmates are pety criminals, but find doing jail time a stop gap for their activities. I once new a guy who whilst away was having the time of his life. Had access to drugs tv and computer games, if it was taken away he would have another one the next day. This is the time to introduce a true ZERO TOLLERANCE policy.

Everything considered, I suppose another question that could be asked is 'where is crime prevention most effective, on the streets or inside prison?

Laws passed to prevent crime on the street are now pushing civil liberties in many ways. Making prison a much much more undesirable place to go (which is what the purposeof a prison was for?) is probably the answer?

[edit on 18/10/08 by logicalview]

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
I can appreciate the sentiment, as ASBOs don't really work at all. In my opinion, it's a flimsy gesture by a government wanting to be seen to do something. Whereas, everyone is aware that it's something that's either not taken very seriously or even used as a perverse badge of honour.

However, work camps? Whilst, again, I appreciate the desire to have these people do something productive, but once this particular train of thought starts, where does it stop?

This is a very dangerous road to go down.

Exactly, how long will it be before they start pulling people radomly from off the street? Or sticking the casualties of the economic downturn in and no-one ever comes back out...