Why organised religion should be purged from society.

reply to post by JesusisTruth


I am not assuming anything. If you read what I said, I went on to say, "or from the bible, more specifically" While most of us do get our teachings from our parents, I do understand that's not true with all of us. I'm 27 as well, but age has NOTHING to do with what knowledge we acquire. We either learn, or do not. It depends on the hunger we possess.

As for your other statement,

Jesus was a great teacher. I don't really believe anything negative about Him as a teacher. I disregard all teachings on hell. If you'll notice though, people don't follow His teachings at all. For instance, how many sick people did you spend time with today? How many homeless did you feed? Did you miss work because you were taking care of a disabled person? Not many of us do this. Those were His teachings, but we don't follow them.

So true... Jesus didn't hurt people. But men who have drawn their conclusions that were written in other areas of the bible, have. The bible teaches a lot of hatred. It teaches of hellfire for those who don't accept Jesus. So men who speak these things aren't really wrong.. they are quoting the "Good Book".

All religions do this. It doesn't matter where you're from. You will have those beliefs almost always taught to you. That doesn't make you wrong. But it also doesn't make you right.

The Godless man, is a religion unto himself, of singularity, or group.
The man of God, is a religion unto himself, of singularity, or group.
This is not a war of religions, but of that which is right versus wrong.

Do we learn that which is right versus wrong from trial and error, or are we merely learning through time, that which was always righteous?

What is righteous? By definition below I have copied it:

1. characterized by uprightness or morality: a righteous observance of the law.
2. morally right or justifiable: righteous indignation.
3. acting in an upright, moral way; virtuous: a righteous and godly person.
4. Slang. absolutely genuine or wonderful: some righteous playing by a jazz great.

dictionary.reference.com...

There is a more right way of doing things. There is a more right way of practicing free will.

The OP linked the title of a writing " The truth is a pathless land ".
When one is shown the Truth and is in full witness, what should they do?

Love the Lord your God, with all your heart and all your soul, and the next one is like that; That you love one another as I have loved you.

Jesus Christ

The beginning of a path of goodness.

Peace


[edit on 13-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]

Ok Eagle I read it wrong. When I said I'm 27 i mean I converted 7 years ago.

Now as for following Jesus teachings, yea not many actually follow the teachings, but some do.

and about hell.

If you have a house and you let everybody in including robbers, liars, cheaters, hatful people, and murderers, then what have you done to your house?

Hell has to exist for the justice of God, but what we say.. and what jesus says.


" if you do not believe in me you will perish "

He's saying it out of truth and love. It has to do with communion and a soul not being good enough to enter itself, and the fact that without communion he talks about not having life in you. I have felt what communion does for the soul and I know.

but anyways, if God could convert me from no belief he can to anybody. There will be a mass conversion in the end times later on when he gives the sign to the human race, so whoever searches and whoever is sincere of heart God will convert.

nothing is impossible with God.


peace.

reply to post by JesusisTruth


Eh... this is going to open up a whole other issue and I'm seriously trying to avoid doing that. I sincerely apologize to the OP. I am in no way trying to derail your thread. lol

JesusisTruth-

Allow me to ask you a question:

Suppose you get caught doing something very bad. Your parents are steamed! Do they let you burn for eternity though for this? Suppose you get really mad at their judgmental accusations and you choose to leave their home. Does this mean they don't love you and that you have no place there?

Allow me to bring up something else:

God is the beginning. He created evil. He had to. It has no ability to create itself. Therefore, you are following the line drawn for you. It's a guideline given to you. You have no free will in religion. You either accept what is written, or you "perish".

And regarding hell. I hope you'll take a moment to actually research what hell is. I was corrected by Miriam in another thread, and I've since changed my stance on it. I'll just say, it's not at all what is being taught to us by the Church.

And the point of all of this:

The Truth taught to you still won't be the Truth taught to others. Where you're raised determines a lot of what you'll believe. What your parents believed, and so forth. So many things go into what you believe. That's not true in all cases. I was raised to be Christian. My family still is, and they hate the fact that I'm not. But I searched for Truth, and it led me straight out the door of Christianity. And it has done so for MANY people.

Let me say, I would never tell anyone to stop being a Christian or any other religion. I'm simply saying we have to be bigger than that. What happens if something catastrophic occurs and you find out that your religion is a farce? Would you still be able to stand? Or would you feel lost, alone, and forsaken?

If we stand on Love. We have overcome so much. And I think it can be done.. but it will take all of us, together.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

There is no such thing as "Trinity" in the bible.

O really?

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

1 John 5:7

Oh yes. That was added much, much later. Again, there is no such thing as Trinity in the bible except for that one verse which was added. Not included in some other versions.

Comma Johanneum
www.bible.org...
www.bible-researcher.com...
www.answering-christianity.com...

I am an atheist, having said that I do know that humanity is hard wired for faith ,and I don't think all faith is bad . I do think humanity needs to mature and realize that a ruthless person would have no qualms about using their good faith against them ,as history proves over and over. So all you people with faith need some kind of yardstick, for knowing how much blame you can assign to others for so called social ills, and maybe then you can have faith and still respect people who live just as morally and lawfully without it. Concern for your world or your culture or others in need is not the sole province of those who believe in a deity. Many of us who don't worship anything care about all these things. Just FYI

reply to post by Deaf Alien


www.chick.com...

Deny Ignorance.

Take special notice to where the AV came from... Antioch Syria.

What does Acts have to say about the Christians at Antioch?

That fact of the matter is the verse was not ADDED, but widely REMOVED.

There are references of it dating to 120 AD. References of Christians quoting it from 200 AD.

reply to post by invisiblewoman


We may be hard wired for faith. Whatever it is, organized religions use that to their advantage for control, money and greed.

Everyone has the connection to the divine or nature. We recognize the beauty in all things. We already have moral values built in ourselves. Spirituality is a personal thing and can be shared with others.

We do not need any religion to guide us, to impose moral values on us, to tell us which god or truth is the right one.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


This is going off topic. We can discuss this in a new thread.

Anyway, Chick Publication? I wouldn't use that as a source. It is a strong pro-KJV bible, pro-creationism, etc.

I think I will go ahead and create a new thread so as not to derail this thread

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ
reply to post by JesusisTruth

 

Eh... this is going to open up a whole other issue and I'm seriously trying to avoid doing that. I sincerely apologize to the OP. I am in no way trying to derail your thread.

No problem.This thread was already derailed by fundamentalist endtimers anyway.These people who believe in rapture are a new type of Christianity that was created in the late 1800's.

www.askelm.com...

They can believe what they wish.Good for them.At least you are adding some intelligence to the topic.Thanks for that.:bnghd:I am just planting seeds.Oh yeah,if the antichrist is real,He will likely be one of these fundamentalist Quackjobs and they will prostrate themselves before him

reply to post by daeoeste


Hi OP

Since you're back, I asked a question on the last page that kind of got buried in the antichrist debate.

It's about the ideas of Krishnamurti (sp?) being "testable". Could you expand on what you mean by that? I did read the article and explore the site a little, but I didn't pick up on that idea at all.

For what it's worth, I don't think being testable is a necessary or even perhaps desirable characteristic of spiritual truth, but you mentioned it in the OP, so I was curious.

" fundamentalist quakjobs "

screw you Ahole! you don't know me like that. dork.

I believe in the end times because not only did 100s of saints predict it and the bible ( which also predicted WW3 and nukes) but because God also said when technology increases realize the time is at hand.

we will see who the quackjob is when your ass is in the midst of WW3 shortly.

trying to make your ass sound so sane. Please.


I'm done with the thread. I will let it get back on topic.

Suppose you get caught doing something very bad. Your parents are steamed! Do they let you burn for eternity though for this? Suppose you get really mad at their judgmental accusations and you choose to leave their home. Does this mean they don't love you and that you have no place there?



You don't understand what a hardened heart is. If God gave those people eternity to chose sin and hell or God, they (chose) hell. You don't understand that people in the depths of their souls chose hell.

They don't want to be forgiven. In the case you gave me they are not completely hardened in their denial of God.


If a robber stays a robber and doesn't want forgivness then he must be cast out.


Now atleast you don't call people you don't know (quackjobs)....



anyways I respect your sincerity. I love it!


But.

God did not create evil. Evil is the deprevation of Gods grace in a soul. It means you have no love at all.

it's like the absence of God. So I don't believe it's created even though it exist.


anyways back on topic, please. I'm done.

reply to post by HIFIGUY

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
To some of you Jesus IS God. To others Jesus is the son of God. What is the truth?


Thank you for bringing up this question.

Actually, it is a rhetorical question, not a door opener! I was not looking for your viewpoint on it. We would not agree. And we cannot quote scriptures that are not reliable. Thank you though.

Back on topic: do I feel that religion should be purged from society? If the evangelicals on this thread and on others are an indicator, then most certainly, and not only that, but I feel it has God, and Jesus blessing!

I get further and further proof that the Bible was written by the Gods to deceive Christians, to blind them! It has been orchestrated by them to absolutely help religious individuals, and groups, to: buy into the lie!

There is no openness or flexibility to even discuss other possibilities or spiritual growth! What a Sign!! This builds my faith even more.

You all cannot even imagine what faith it takes to believe in Jah and all of heavenly congress for that matter, without any safety net!

1. No religious structure and mediators for me to lean on.

2. No Biblical doctrine or religious doctrine to hold on to.

3. Realizing and learning that the Bible has hidden clues (that I willingly search for, as other scholars do) and that the rest was created and is used for deception. So I cannot just turn to the Bible and count on it being accurate or lean on it because the "truth" has been revealed that; it was never based on actual original writings, but hearsay!!! We have proof of this fact!

4. No fellowship with like minded people who all buy into the same information. So mine is a position of unconditional love without external information or support.

5. No comfort of unity and quantity of membership but instead: at times "free floating anxiety" from just standing on ones own two (spiritual) feet.

6. Realizing and living with the knowledge that I cannot base any of my faith on: dates and formulas, but just on spiritual gut instincts. Information or beliefs may "look good, may sound good, but does it feel right?

7. That I will stand by my spiritual connection to God even though I may stand alone, without others agreeing, or without saying the next codependent religious rhetoric. My conscience is spiritually based, not religiously based. My accountability is to God alone.

8. Knowing that to be spiritual is to walk down a narrow and cramped road and not one that is spacious and broad and is being utilized by the religious masses (for this road has the largest attendance).

9. No-one to blame my stance on if what I believe turns out to be bogus. I cannot blame a religion or religious leader if what I believe turns out to be wrong, or I am misled.

10. Just me and God and no one to confess sins to, nor prove my faith to.

11. No quotas or status levels to meet, nor measuring sticks to measure my knowledge against, or levels of faith. Nor do I have to prostitute myself financially to prove my worthiness to get Gods approval!

12. I can no longer make a religion "my addiction of choice!"

Most of all: I cannot religiously say; "Did I not prophesy in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?" No, mine is a program of attraction, not promotion!

Quoting any scripture is fruitless...just label me a false prophet! I consider it a compliment.

13. No idea who your God is and no revelation from his mouth.

Matrix your stance is that of a giddy childlike man with no sense of reality.


God would not leave his creation in the dark like you are. You don't know your God. he's whatever you want it to be, yet that's not what he is, yet others can have God whatever it is too.

If I wanted God to be a Pile of Rocks then that's God and I'm free as a damn bird.


another has God as a black stool.


God cannot be what you want but what he is, and he revealed this truth to his creation long ago.


peace.

reply to post by daeoeste

No problem.This thread was already derailed by fundamentalist endtimers anyway.These people who believe in rapture are a new type of Christianity that was created in the late 1800's.

That is a lie that's commonly parroted. Here is the truth:

History of the Pre-Trib Rapture

reply to post by JesusisTruth


To a non spiritual person it would seem that I am speaking in riddles. I cannot expect you to know what I am saying, nor would I expect you to. But please understand this; I do know every word you speak - they used to be my dear friends!

[edit on 13-10-2008 by MatrixProphet]

reply to post by MatrixProphet

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
1. No religious structure and mediators for me to lean on.

2. No Biblical doctrine or religious doctrine to hold on to.

3. Realizing and learning that the Bible has hidden clues (that I willingly search for, as other scholars do) and that the rest was created and is used for deception. So I cannot just turn to the Bible and count on it being accurate or lean on it because the "truth" has been revealed that; it was never based on actual original writings, but hearsay!!! We have proof of this fact!

4. No fellowship with like minded people who all buy into the same information. So mine is a position of unconditional love without external information or support.

5. No comfort of unity and quantity of membership but instead: at times "free floating anxiety" from just standing on ones own two (spiritual) feet.

6. Realizing and living with the knowledge that I cannot base any of my faith on: dates and formulas, but just on spiritual gut instincts. Information or beliefs may "look good, may sound good, but does it feel right?

7. That I will stand by my spiritual connection to God even though I may stand alone, without others agreeing, or without saying the next codependent religious rhetoric. My conscience is spiritually based, not religiously based. My accountability is to God alone.

8. Knowing that to be spiritual is to walk down a narrow and cramped road and not one that is spacious and broad and is being utilized by the religious masses (for this road has the largest attendance).

9. No-one to blame my stance on if what I believe turns out to be bogus. I cannot blame a religion or religious leader if what I believe turns out to be wrong, or I am misled.

10. Just me and God and no one to confess sins to, nor prove my faith to.

11. No quotas or status levels to meet, nor measuring sticks to measure my knowledge against, or levels of faith. Nor do I have to prostitute myself financially to prove my worthiness to get Gods approval!

12. I can no longer make a religion "my addiction of choice!"

Websters 4th definition of religion finds the above " A religion ". I have also included dictionary.com

4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

mw4.m-w.com...

the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:

dictionary.reference.com...

When you adhere to a belief system, be it of God, or without; it can be said to be a religion.

When people assemble in the name of that cause, or in the name of a belief, it is organized and under the OP, should be purged.

Right to free assembly, worship, and speech is a foundation of this country which will not be moved. A belief religiously held by the founding fathers of this country.

The United States, can be said to be, an organized religion.
for we do adhere to a principle and a set of beliefs.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

www.law.indiana.edu...

Careful, the religion you purge, may be your own.

Peace


[edit on 13-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY


Perhaps it may be his "religion." However, his point is that he does not allow any organized religion to dictate what is truth to him. He has to discover that on his own.

If he does happen to have an organization of like believers, their beliefs will still be freely discussed and debated without the fear of ridicule and persecution. The ancient greeks had it right.

Spirituality (and religion) is supposed to be a learning process and to get to know your God. Within organized religion, the followers have to swallow any beliefs the church dictate to them. For example, the Trinity cannot be questioned within baptist church, even if there are evidence against the Trinity.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Then Ill take your words to heart. But also accept every mans own path towards understanding that which is, and that which is not.

I will leave you with this. A quote by Jesus, not in the canonized Bible, but in a scripture less known.

My Jewish master, what is truth? 3 And Jesus said, Truth is the only thing that changes not. 4 In all the world there are two things; the one is truth; the other falsehood; and truth is that which is, and falsehood that which seems to be.

and secondly, again from a non canonized scripture....

4. Behold this crystal: how the one light its manifest in twelve faces, yea four times twelve, and each face reflecteth one ray of light, and one regardeth one face, and another another, but it is the one crystal and the one light that shineth in all.

One day, all that is hidden will be revealed.

Peace


[edit on 13-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]