'Capitalism' IS conspiracy. Make all business non-profit to stop war & starvation & poverty

reply to post by counterterrorist


Like what has been said in earlier posts in this thread what we live in today is not a capitalist society, it is corporatism. Socialist policies is what has contributed to this economic disaster that we are in.

Corporations have gained so much money that they can shut down the mom and pops that threaten their survival by way of lobbying congress to get bills passed that they themselves wrote or by buying up the competition.

Capitalism is not a conspiracy the lie that is being told to us by our government that we have a capitalist system is a conspiracy. Capitalism promotes the free market the capitalism only works with little government intervention

There will always be a motivation for war whether it be money, resources, freedom, etc.



[edit on 11-10-2008 by Hastobemoretolife]

GM is broke because they make crappy vehicles with bad gas mileage.

It isnt our job or duty to stop war and end poverty.

Originally posted by harvib

Errr... I know the media has been very active in blaming speculators for the recent decline in the market however it is unfounded.

THERE IS NO FREE MARKET. The stock market is 100% speculating, 100% gambling. Period. Until issuing stock shares is outlawed, there can be no 'free market'. Until the U.S. Treasury prints our money instead of the privately owned Fed whose interlocking banking directorates ISSUE ALL STOCK -- there can be no 'free' market. IT COSTS MONEY TO BUY THOSE GAMBLING CHIPS WE CALL 'STOCK' -- It's NOT free.

I believe the solutions to our problems lies in major tax reform and Government reform. Not the reformation of the markets.

Idolatry. You worship gambling. The solution to our problems is make issuing stock shares illegal.

ALL BUSINESS SHOULD BE NON-PROFIT CORPORATIONS. Take the profit out of waging war and waging starvation and waging poverty.

Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar
GM is broke because they make crappy vehicles with bad gas mileage.

It isnt our job or duty to stop war and end poverty.

No. It's our job to overthrow the 1913 conspiracy of the Fed that stole the money-issuing power from the people (U.S. Treasury) and has robbed us for 10-12 trillion dollars since that would have never existed as a debt.

Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar
GM is broke because they make crappy vehicles with bad gas mileage.

That's the largest load of crap I've heard you spew from that ridiculously inane mouth of yours yet.

GM isn't broke because they make crappy vehicles, GM is broke because the vehicles that they are ALLOWED to make end up being crappy simply because of all those profiteering UNIONS that decide they DESERVE to get paid $50 an hour to make such crap not to mention all the other perks of UAW workers that make it unrealistic AND un-American to actually BUY American.

Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar
It isnt our job or duty to stop war and end poverty.

Yes, it most certainly is.

AB1

reply to post by counterterrorist


I agree 100%, yet "erasing poverty" isnt involved in dismantling the corpratocracy that has become our government.

Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by Constitutional Scholar
It isnt our job or duty to stop war and end poverty.

Yes, it most certainly is.

AB1

Sadly, yet again you are wrong. You may believe there is a moral duty, however you would be imposing your morals on the masses if you supported this idea.

Nothing in the Constitution grants government the power to use public funds to fight poverty.

Properly regulated, people under the law perform well, when motivated by the desire for security. People want a sense of self-worth, which is not given by blending into the masses of billions. People want the freedom to choose, which is not allowed in a society where your choices are made for you, as in socialism. You are functioning in socialism, to some degree, now. Any programs mandated by the state are socialism; e.g., public schools. Where I live, teachers have all the rights and the money. Kids are the losers.

One of our state assemblymen mentioned his thoughts on government by this example of socialism---public schools. He said, back around 1990, that the schools in my state, CA, have 112 administrators for every X number of students. He said the private schools had 8, and the catholic schools had 1. Socialism is inefficient, to say the least. We have great difficulty removing teachers from our schools, for whatever the reason. When they are removed, they can find a teaching job in another school in another state.

The same assemblyman said that he voted $4500 per student in the public schools in CA. He stated that, by the time the $4500 made it to his child, about 30 miles from the state capitol, the amount had been reduced to $2500. Again, inefficient. We are finding that the most efficient schools are run by corporations, as experienced back east in New York. The teachers are rewarded for the successes with the students, not paid by the hour alone.

I work on commission, at least for the last 25 years or more. Prior to that I worked for a salary. When I worked for a salary, I found that many of my fellow workers were less than conscientious about the corporation saving money, or increasing earnings. They punched a clock.

History has shown in Russia that the collective farms, under communism, were less successful than the small victory gardens being grown by the same farmers in their "back yard."

We are just people. We want to be appreciated and get ahead. That ain't no sin. We like it when we think of new things and are praised for our accomplishments. You might call that selfish. I think we just want to feel good about ourselves, and feel needed. I don't think I would relate that to greed.

Some folks are successful beyond us, and have bigger homes and more cars, etc. They were smarter, or lucky, or had a sense of urgency. Perhaps they felt they were willing to sacrifice more to get ahead.

For everything you gain, you sacrifice something.

Perhaps you do not have the fancy cars, or big home. Perhaps you have the wonderful family and the long and wonderful marriage, and seem overwhelmed by the capitalistic system. Some folks want to get ahead at home, some at work. Some like risk, some don't.

Capitalists like risk. Socialists don't. Capitalists think of new and better ways, so people will buy what they sell. Socialists don't need to. In a capitalistic society, you have a washing machine. In a socialistic society, you have a washboard. Good luck with that.

I like the constant drive to be better. Capitalism suits me fine.

reply to post by Constitutional Scholar


And yet, we have a socialist welfare system. It seems the fed gov is using your money to combat poverty at some level.

reply to post by Constitutional Scholar


Why would I care about a Federally mandated "moral" duty... it's only MY moral duty that I care about. So, sadly you are wrong again, I can't be wrong about how I feel my moral duty should play out.


AB1

You've all got to the be kidding me.

Socialism is the culprit for your economic situation? Quite possibly the most idiotic thing I've read in a long time. There are NO socialist policies or anything in this nation. Do the workers of factories own their machines? Or do the CEO's? Do the workers own the means of production? No. Are there factories being closed, foreclosures, and tons of people losing jobs? Why? It's the true glorified nature of Capitalism.

The working class is getting hit hard, while the borgeusie are still in their penthouses and mansions living carefree. The bail-out is the ULTIMATE form of capitalism, the poor man paying to keep the rich man going. Why are you blaming Socialism for this situation? Because you are brainwashed paulie morons with so much lack of any sort of common sense, you have to listen to a psycho ramble on about how Socialism takes away your money and life.

Fact of the matter is, Capitalism is in it's last breaths and it's time for us to either embrace Fascism or Socialism. It's the only way for humanity to progress (Socialism). Capital, Slave Labor, Outsourcing, Primitive Energy Uses for Corporate Gain, and War will not lead humanity to it's future and only it's destruction.

It's your choice to think the ultimate anti-human philosophy ISN'T the culprit or it is. If you think it isn't, I recommend reading up on Socialism.

Also! Viva Capitalism? The only ones that support Capitalism are capitalists themselves. Marx predicted these economic failures and Capital will trump labor to the extent of which working class peoples cannot afford anything. Roosevelt's administration was Socialist? Because he wanted to regulate Capitalism to help the economy?

...not by Von Mises

[edit on 12-10-2008 by QuetzalcoatlAlien]

Originally posted by Jim Scott
Properly regulated, people under the law perform well, when motivated by the desire for security. People want a sense of self-worth, which is not given by blending into the masses of billions. People want the freedom to choose, which is not allowed in a society where your choices are made for you, as in socialism. You are functioning in socialism, to some degree, now. Any programs mandated by the state are socialism; e.g., public schools. Where I live, teachers have all the rights and the money. Kids are the losers.

One of our state assemblymen mentioned his thoughts on government by this example of socialism---public schools. He said, back around 1990, that the schools in my state, CA, have 112 administrators for every X number of students. He said the private schools had 8, and the catholic schools had 1. Socialism is inefficient, to say the least. We have great difficulty removing teachers from our schools, for whatever the reason. When they are removed, they can find a teaching job in another school in another state.

The same assemblyman said that he voted $4500 per student in the public schools in CA. He stated that, by the time the $4500 made it to his child, about 30 miles from the state capitol, the amount had been reduced to $2500. Again, inefficient. We are finding that the most efficient schools are run by corporations, as experienced back east in New York. The teachers are rewarded for the successes with the students, not paid by the hour alone.

I work on commission, at least for the last 25 years or more. Prior to that I worked for a salary. When I worked for a salary, I found that many of my fellow workers were less than conscientious about the corporation saving money, or increasing earnings. They punched a clock.

History has shown in Russia that the collective farms, under communism, were less successful than the small victory gardens being grown by the same farmers in their "back yard."

We are just people. We want to be appreciated and get ahead. That ain't no sin. We like it when we think of new things and are praised for our accomplishments. You might call that selfish. I think we just want to feel good about ourselves, and feel needed. I don't think I would relate that to greed.

Some folks are successful beyond us, and have bigger homes and more cars, etc. They were smarter, or lucky, or had a sense of urgency. Perhaps they felt they were willing to sacrifice more to get ahead.

For everything you gain, you sacrifice something.

Perhaps you do not have the fancy cars, or big home. Perhaps you have the wonderful family and the long and wonderful marriage, and seem overwhelmed by the capitalistic system. Some folks want to get ahead at home, some at work. Some like risk, some don't.

Capitalists like risk. Socialists don't. Capitalists think of new and better ways, so people will buy what they sell. Socialists don't need to. In a capitalistic society, you have a washing machine. In a socialistic society, you have a washboard. Good luck with that.

I like the constant drive to be better. Capitalism suits me fine.

Capitalism does lead to more technological advancements but at a higher cost. Capitalism is necessary to the transition to Socialism, it's what the World needs. Not a totalitarian dictatorship like you all are thinking or THE GOVERNMENT USING ALL YOUR MONEY.


Your choices are not made in Socialism? What in God's name are you talking about? Democracy is advocated in Socialism! You are a complete moron.

[edit on 12-10-2008 by QuetzalcoatlAlien]

like ive stated before......you scream about communism and socialism but you want to nationalize everything? ummmm hello? what do you think socialism is? redistribute wealth? am i missing something here or is that not one of the basic building blocks of both communism and socialism?

reply to post by counterterrorist

THERE IS NO FREE MARKET. The stock market is 100% speculating, 100% gambling. Period. Until issuing stock shares is outlawed, there can be no 'free market'.

First off speculators are not the enemy of the people. Second it is not 100% speculation. Research how and why the futures market developed in the first place. It was as a result of farmers wanting to hedge their future commodities.

Do you understand what you are asking to be done? The amount of Governement power and regulation that would have to take place to supress the markets. It would mean total domination. Is this what you are an advocate of???

Until the U.S. Treasury prints our money instead of the privately owned Fed whose interlocking banking directorates ISSUE ALL STOCK -- there can be no 'free' market. IT COSTS MONEY TO BUY THOSE GAMBLING CHIPS WE CALL 'STOCK' -- It's NOT free.

I agree with you here. With the statment you made surely you understand that the solution lies in the elimination of the fed not of peoples freedoms?

What makes any of you think that what we have is capitalism? It resembles a feudal society with the Federal government as the king with the huge corporations as the lords. Small businesses, small business owners, and everyone else are peasants. We are required to yearly send tribute to the king (Federal government). We may borrow from one of the lords (large corporate banks), but if we fail to repay we are punished (fees, and bad credit reports).

That's not capitalism.

A good post CT! But,I think you miss the larger picture here we have not been a captialist nation since oh,the Clinton years what happend these past few weeks is a fascist take over of the country that's what the bailout scam was the final step.

reply to post by QuetzalcoatlAlien


No, this bailout is the ultimate form of corporatism. Socialism really worked in Cuba and the USSR didn't it?

From what you wrote in your post you must have read a lot of Marx and his idea of a Utopia society. Marx's ideas have never been implemented in the way that he wanted them too. They will never be implemented in the way that he wanted them too.

Socialism does not work because people are different and they will all ways be different.

CT, as always, I totally agree with you. What really gets to me is these guys saying that we live in a socialst society. Although any economic expert will tell you we live in a ultra-liberal one. People shoot their mouthes of about socialism when they blatantly have no idea what socialism is. Or communism for that much. Most people never pick up a book, and their minds are stuck in the cold war. To believe that Soviet Russia had anything to do with communism as Marx intended it, is a evident sign of a lack of information on the subject.
I'm an anarchist, and most people have no idea in hell of what that means, most of the time they think my idea's revolve around burning things and raping old women.
Before anyone engages in any kind of political discussion with me, I make sure they have at least read Smith and Marx. Else it's just a waste of time with people throwing absolute Mc Carthyist krud around.

I had the idea of every business working non profit when I was really young.
For that reason it would probably work = )

Noone would do it though.

Seems to me some people really need to study economics and history instead of just assuming that all the media hype and descriptions of our economy are correct.
It is not my job to school you, but it does irk me to no end to constantly hear regurgitated 7 second sound bites (usually in ALL CAPS) spewed forth as undeniable facts.