'We Were Told We Were Fighting Terrorists; The Real Terrorist Was Me'

Originally posted by chapter29
reply to post by MorningStar8741

 

Let me clear this up so chapter 29 can stop worrying about it so much

Morning, I was looking out for another member that seemed to be wrongly identified as someone that denied war atrocities...that member, cmd18B, offered an opinion and insight into what he saw while over there...

He did it in a respectful way, yet your response seemed to indicate he was not speaking the truth...if you had been in the same situation, I would have gone to bat for you as well...

Well, you were wrong. The answer was respectful and I respect that. Now I am asking cmd18B if that is what he is saying - that since OCT of '01 these things must not have been reported if happening. This statement went above and beyond answering my original question and before accusing anyone of anything, the least I can do is clarify. That is why I asked, which you would have realized had you just worried about yourself. Now, please let the grown man answer for himself and stop derailing just because you misunderstood. The question was to him, not you. I appreciate that you would do the same for me but good intentions do not erase erronious statements and I would really prefer that noone stand up for me that cannot comprehend what is being discussed. Here is your two cents back.

reply to post by Hal9000

OK everyone, this topic is not about anyone who is a member here, so let's talk about the topic and not each other.

Roger, Roger...we have clearance Clarence...


From OP:

Based on his personal experiences and remorse, it's not too difficult to figure out why so many of these young men seem to be taking their own lives.

This caught my eye quite a bit earlier, but I never had a chance to comment on it...

Back in '94 my Battalion was involved in exercises at Ft. Polk, Louisiana - JRTC (Joint Readiness Training Center)...it lasts about 3 weeks, but your only in the field for about 2 weeks...

By the time we left, 2 soldiers (other battalions) have committed suicide and we had one soldier put a buoy knife through his hand just to go home...

This was during a peacetime exercise, so I can only imagine what our brave soldiers are going through over there...consider this - they know the war is anything but popular, their tours have been extended, beheading an american soldier is all the rage, ect...

No wonder they are taking their own lives, and shame on the PTB as they downplay these incidents...

I understand that we have a "voluntary" force, but I don't remember being told during swear-in that we may have to enforce policy that is in direct opposition to the ideologies that this country was founded upon...





Content/grammar edit!

Note: I have edited this post 4 times...please say no to drugs!



[edit on 10/12/2008 by chapter29]

reply to post by MorningStar8741

Now, please let the grown man answer for himself and stop derailing just because you misunderstood.

Let it go man....

Neither of us are going to agree with one another, so lets just move on...

reply to post by chapter29


Right, so stop responding to me and let the man answer for himself. What are you his mom, you let it go.

Very harrowing story, DD, S & F!

In Viet Nam, it was taking 'ears'... In Iraq, it's making interrogations. Both types of horrors stem from the enormous stresses suffered by troops who witness deaths of thier buddies, and then deal with those losses by entitling themselves to inflict a greater atrocity on the enemy.

I support our troops, always; and have special respect for Veterans who have lost fellow soldiers in wars. And I love America with all my heart; it's just that something ...I don't know... something diabolical, immoral, or insidious evil has crept in over the last couple decades, that is hard to describe, and even harder to directly identify; but the soldier in the article has touched on a valid point, about "the billionaires who send us to war".

Frightening to me, is how many law-makers own stock in, and profit from the weapons manufacturing industry. And more incredulous to me, is how our elected officials keep pumping billions of dollars into these wars, while the economy tanks! . . .and we do NOTHING except sit here typing. . .

I think one of the most disturbing legacies of the 21st century will be how we allowed warring govs. to conflagrate our planet, and especially the development of unmanned aireal vehicles, unmanned armored vehicles, and remote-controlled weapons to not only kill innocent people, but also take the honor out of battle. (And of course, used these technologies to spy on citizens, identify any threats to thier continued power, and oppressed the remaining ones through mainstream media manipulation).

. . .enough, before I really get going!

reply to post by chapter29

Originally posted by chapter29
Roger, Roger...we have clearance Clarence...

Just don't call me Shirley.

Putting in my $.02 now. I was in the military for 12 years, my last 6 as an airforce medic. I generally tended to see our af medics as a bit of a cut above, they were mostly more intellectual than the army guys i was stationed with during my time in the army. So i generally felt a little different about my service in the AF, a bit more proud and ....well....human. We were treated with much more respect, we were taken better care of, and we had more options for advancement and education. Then on one FTX i was in a class with others as they were showing some presentation mixed in with all our medical classes. It was a "patriotic" piece, complete with country music and uplifting pictures and all the rest. Then it came to a couple slides....one showing the words "our soldiers!!" and it showed a bunch of proud strong young attractive americans holding up a flag. Then it showed a slide stating "their soldiers!!" and it showed a bunch of dead arabs falling out of a blown up vehicle. I was completely offended that they felt the need to demonize and humiliate these people in order to make us feel like we were strong, in order to get us to do what they want us to do. It was the rankest form of propaganda, of dehumanizing the foe, and i felt it was an extreme insult to my intelligence and to the intelligence and humanity of everyone else in the classroom and was disappointed to find that i was the only one in the room that felt that way. Patriotism, nationalism, these in my mind are just other names for racism and bigotry, and that was the final moment of my enlistment in the military. I resigned shortly after, and to this day feel sad that i live in a land where people willingly sit there and are spoonfed hatred and racism, and think thats ok, and use the feelings instilled by such things to calm their conscience as they go into other lands and kill people who have never set foot on our soil, or ever planned to kill me or mine. To my mind this can be nothing but the fruits of fear and hatred, and our soldiers but victims of hatemongering and corruption. THIS is why suicide rates among soldiers are skyrocketing, and THIS is why we have such massive levels of PTSD. For soldiers fighting with a clear conscience and for something they KNOW they can believe in, its a massively different story. I have a friend who was a forward observer, and he would radio in the bombing targets. Then he would stand and watch as the target he called in, PLUS the park full of children next to it would get immolated in a ball of fire. He is now discharged by the military, and barely living on disability with massive psychological trauma, and i can gaurantee you its the park full of children keeping him up at night. Our tactics and weapons are not NEARLY as accurate as we are led to believe, and the civilian casualties are massive (though they are all reported as "terrorists" in news casts) and not always unintentional, as in fallujah where all males over 15yrs of age were turned back to the city and then it was destroyed. THESE are the reasons for PTSD and nightmares, and rightly so. If this isnt terror than i dont know what is, and its a terror thats inflicted upon our young naive soldiers as well.

reply to post by MorningStar8741


MorningStar, I understand where you're asking for clarification, but do you really expect to get the answer you want? I believe you have good intentions, but they are causing more harm than good.

Please discuss the topic and not each other.

Originally posted by Hal9000
reply to post by MorningStar8741

 

MorningStar, I understand where you're asking for clarification, but do you really expect to get the answer you want? I believe you have good intentions, but they are causing more harm than good.

Please discuss the topic and not each other.

I guess it is my fault other people keep responding to me and accusing me of saying what I did not say and harassing me for asking someone else a question. Please accept my appologies for addressing someone and then defending myself against someone else who wont let it go even after it is clear they need not be involved.

reply to post by MorningStar8741


An apology to me is not necessary.

Let's let the topic speak for itself.

Ok...We all need to turn it down one notch...During my time in Afghanistan with my team I/WE never witnessed the senseless killing of INNOCENT civilians, Our mission was not to go there and eliminate women and children, It was to establish ties with Afghan freedom fighters and build a repoire with tribal leaders who in fact have done wonders for us with good actional intelligence on enemy strongholds and AQ training grounds along with all the other happy horsepoop , We also acted as doctors, teachers, instructors, and most of all soldiers. Did senseless killings happen?,Not on our watch but I would venture to say yes, The occasional bomb would miss its target or an AC-130 was off it mark, These things happen but never did we or any american soldier under my command kill in cold blood, If lives were lost it was because my team and myself were in harms way and we were coming home at the end of the day.Not on our watch.. So in closing, I never saw innocent lives taken, We are the consumate professionals, If I took somebodys life it was justifed in order to preserve the lives of my team and myself.

This is my last post on this subject and im through answering questions now so I will walk away having given my eight cents worth and hope I was understood, I respect every pair of boots that has touched the grounds of Iraq and Afghanistan and I also respect the opinions of the wonderful people that have never served and I dont begrudge you for not serving but there will things you can never imagine or comprehend in a lifetime, . For the rest of my days I will never be able to replace the friends I lost in the GWOT, I will never sleep soundly, and I will never be me again. I actually sit up every night a pray to god that there is not another servicemember killed while serving his country...On a lighter note:..LETS GO PHILLIES...TWO MORE

I also have served more the one tour in OIF. In 2004 a guarded enemy prisoners of war at a small forward operating base, until they were transported to a different place. It was kind of like a transient holding area. We always treated them respectfully and often spoke the eldest EPW to try and get the group to calm down, because many Muslims respect their elders. We referred to the eldest as "hajji" because many of them had made the pilgrimage to Mecca and that it is a sign of respect. I do not speak Arabic fluently but it always seemed to work when we would say it to the crowd, someone would step forward; usually an older man. Look in a dictionary and see what that word means before going off the handle about racism. I have spent most of the best years of my life serving in the Middle East. I have never once seen or heard of a soldier killing people for no reason. Lives in this country are taken for trying to take the lives of American service members. Yes people die, some by hands of the US for trying to kill the American Soldiers or Marines on their right or left, but many innocent civilians are killed, tortured, kidnapped and executed by the insurgency. Many people on ATS claim that the Media cannot be trusted and is controlled by the government, “don’t believe anything they say” only when they say something that you disagree with, when anything is said negatively about the military folks jump all over it as if it were gospel.

[edit on 12-10-2008 by smoke screen]

reply to post by cmd18B


I appreciate your answer and your service. I just wanted to know if what was being said is that not only did you not witness it but that it also never happens. Sorry but I cannot say that I respect EVERY set of boots on the ground over there. Do you know what the recruiting standards have become? If one person willing hurts and innocent life for fun in the name of the U.S. that person deserves no respect, that person is a traitor to his fellow men and women in uniform. It just scares me when people say they were there and that this stuff NEVER happens. If you did not see it, great. That means you are and served with honorable people. That is not always the case, unfortunately. Some soldiers are bad. Bad for America, bad for fellow soldiers, just plain bad. It does happen. Like I said, I appreciate what you have done and what you have seen. Unfortunately, people do need to know what is going on in our name over there and it is not 100% honorable and good.

reply to post by smoke screen


And thank you for both your service and apparently serving us well. The problem is that saying these bad things NEVER happen over there is turning a blind eye. read about it, hear about it, watch it here

See, now just imagine any one of the innocent people in the videos in this thread being shot at for no reason. Now imagine a family of a victim of these soldiers' fun. Now imagine you, a good soldier, shows up at this families house for something routine. Think they will want you dead for symbolizing the face of the ass that just killed their family member? I guess it is just me then that would not like normally decent people shooting at me to get revenge for something some dumb hillbilly that never should have gotten in has done.

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective

I threw families onto the street in Iraq, only to come home and find families thrown onto the street in this country, in this tragic and unnecessary foreclosure crisis. Our enemies are not five thousand miles away, they are right here at home, and if we organize and fight, we can stop this war, we can stop this government, and we can create a better world.

Aw man, this would make a lovely Obama / Biden 2008 ad. All it needs is a "Yes we can!" right after the very last sentence.

I can picture a television ad of this.. with a soldier, dressed in his full battle gear, saying this directly toward the camera, in that cheesy .. presidential campaign ad kinda way. You know, where you can tell the person was paid to speak? Lol ..

I truly feel sorry for this soldier.He doesn't see that he's not the terrorist.He doesn't have a grip on who the terrorists are yet anyway.The real terrorists are the world central banks and the corporations that have grownup around them.First thing we need to understand is the money to be made in this war.Iraq was not invaded just for oil as many people think.Look at the munitions that were expended the first few days.Look at the so called rebuild corporations.Billions and billions of dollars all of it borrowed from world central banks.The bankers and corporations have a field day all at our expence.The corporations control the media so you get to see what they allow.They control both the democrat and republican partys.Maybe you haven't noticed but when the corporations want something in opposition to what the people want the people are the loosers.This is the racket that general was talking about.They control the media so the people get a choice of a democrat or a republican and the third party they ignore.By ignoring the third party canidates the masses will not believe thier even in the running,which is pretty much the truth as they do thier job so well.The dems and repubs fight each other and the masses think they have two partys.They think one of these two partys are going to do something for them and end up with a bone once in a while.Jefferson warned us this would happen but we ignored him.So there are your terrorists.This poor soldier ends up feeling like he's a terrible person as the world bankers,corporations,
and both dems and repubs walk away smilling,thier pockets full of the loot they made on his and other soldiers backs and our bank accounts.Thier weakest link is the political system and they could be put down if no one voted dem or repub.However the masses block the way as they think one of those two corporate partys are going to do something for them.They just don't realise what they are going to do and it won't be pretty.

Originally posted by Combatmed1
Now I am getting ready to leave once again...My wife is tore apart and I don't know if our marriage will be able to handle the strain...We leave for MOB Dec 1st. Even though my personal life most undoubtedly will suffer, I know that I will once again be able to help those noble people...

May the Creator watch over you.

My full support and thanks goes with you.

reply to post by cmd18B



'New Report Confirms Extremist Groups in Military'; also, 'Hate Groups in Military', at:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


From 'A Few Bad Men',

thousands of potentially violent neo-Nazis, skinheads and other white supremacists were learning the art of warfare as members of the armed services.

reply to post by MorningStar8741


MorningStar, with all due respect you are asking cmd18b a question that he cannot answer. To say anything other than what he has already said would be an unfair speculation to other units operating in Iraq and Afghanistan. I can say that in my time overseas that I have never seen the intentional killing of innocent civilians but that is only based upon what I have witnessed. To say anything more would be pure speculation on my part.

On racism in the military, I believe it is being seen in the wrong way. Me personally, I would never go over to Iraq alone to visit people and engage in normal activities. There is a good chance that I would be killed. There are a few homes that I would feel safe visiting but one should never underestimate the need for money. Basically, as we all know everything is not always hugs and flowers in Iraq. So everybody in a military is not always going to portray Iraqis in the best light.

As for people in the military coming home and making comments claiming that we are the terrorists. This is nothing new. The military is one of the most divers groups of people in the United States. With people from different cultures and backgrounds you are not going to here the same opinions out of everybody.