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Canadian Government to Track Precious Metals Transactions

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posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 12:30 PM
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Canadian Government to Track Precious Metals Transactions


www.fintrac.gc.ca

Effective December 30, 2008, new requirements under the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) Terrorist Financing Act (PCMLTFA) will apply to dealers in precious metals and stones. More information on record keeping and client identification will soon be available...
...

A dealer in precious metals and stones means an individual or an entity that buys or sells precious metals, precious stones or jewellery, in the course of its business activities. You are subject to the requirements listed below if you ever engage in the purchase or sale of precious metals, precious stones or jewellery in an amount of $10,000 or more in a single transaction.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 12:30 PM
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The underlying justification for this legislation (read: breach of privacy) is to track down money laundering or "terrorist" financing activity.


I can't help but think that this is nothing more than a convoluted excuse to track down who is trying to protect their personal wealth from the bankers. (duh!)

If you are Canadian and want to buy bullion to protect your wealth (assuming you can find some) you better do it before the end of the year when the Government will know that you are in possession of it or keep all transactions under $10k.

As it stands any transaction under $10k is not subject to the regulations. However, if you have say $100K worth of gold to cash in or want to buy some you and don't want the taxman to know about it you will need to go all over town to try and get it done "under the radar". I'm betting other surveillance methods may flag you as a suspicious character if you do it that way.

I also suspect that to "save time" or for "efficiency" bullion dealers will simply track all transactions. Not to mention that laws can be changed anytime so it's a no brainer that all transactions may be tracked eventually. I'm also betting there will be tax code changes once they can track these transactions.


The control net is tightening.
.

www.fintrac.gc.ca
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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So If I walk into my jewler and pick up a an necklace for the wife and the price is over 10k It gets reported? Or a bigger diamond? Its not all that hard to do. Thats a bit much IMHO.

On the flip side can they keep track of all of them? Neverunderestimate the incopetency of a large beauracracy

[edit on 10/11/08 by FredT]



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by FredT
 


They already flag all large bank transactions so if you paid for your wife's baubles form a bank account they're already tracking you Fred. And if you're spending the rest of your money on expensive hookers, no amount of jewelry is gonna save you from your wife or the Feds, ala Elliot Spitzer...



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
On the flip side can they keep track of all of them?


They won't have to.

The miners and bullion dealers will be responsible for reporting to the government with penalties hanging over their heads. Details have not been published yet.

I'm not sure if these people are licensed in any way (miners are from an environmental standpoint) that can be revoked if they don't comply or are caught cheating.

All I know is that right now you can walk into Kitco's office in downtown Montreal and exchange cash for a couple of gold Maple Leafs with no questions asked. I'm not sure what happens when you sell to them since I only bought three (at about $600) and gave two away as gifts a couple of years ago. I'm also not sure if taxes are payable should I decide to sell my gold coin but suspect there are currently none since there is no way to tell what I paid for it originally and thus how big the gain realized.

I think there are tax changes coming or they are getting ready for gold and silver seizures sometime in the future.

Criminals, terrorist and money launderers are already operating on a black market. This will turn honest people into criminals. They are inadvertently creating another black market for honest people trying to keep their privacy, avoid onerous government regulations or new taxes.
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posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
reply to post by FredT
 


They already flag all large bank transactions so if you paid for your wife's baubles form a bank account they're already tracking you Fred.


I know but our guy is cash only and you get a great price. He is truly a middleman in the diamond game but I transported his child who was in a bad way about 7 years ago so while he does not give us the stuff (I would not take it int hat case) we basically pay his cost. They only catch is cash payments. I know about the 10K limit here in the states so i always withdrew less than that over a few days.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 01:02 PM
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You know what I think.
They are trying to sure up gold reserves for the ensuing hard ships they see.
Canada has alot of gold (still in the ground) but the gold already circulating im sure they don't want to see it leaving the country anytime soon.
Considering Canada during the Great Depression was about the only country in the world who didn't have a bank that failed, then perhaps it might be a smart move.
Canada sure up your gold, and keep your banking system the best in the world.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by Gools
[They won't have to.

The miners and bullion dealers will be responsible for reporting to the government with penalties hanging over their heads. Details have not been published yet.


You would be surprised. Even if they are reporting them its aflod of information.


All I know is that right now you can walk into Kitco's office in downtown Montreal and exchange cash for a couple of gold Maple Leafs with no questions asked. I'm not sure what happens when you sell to them since I only bought three (at about $600)


The problem is do you want the goverment setting the tax basis. Are the Maple leaves a government issued item?



I think there are tax changes coming or they are getting ready for gold and silver seizures sometime in the future.


Perhaps but tax liability could only be taken if you sold them. Seizures are another matter entirely. Big holders would be in trouble. But if they are going house to house to target small fry in that manner we have bigger problems




Criminals, terrorist and money launderers are already operating on a black market.
.


The 10K transaction threashold here in the US has done nothing to deter drug trafficers.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
Are the Maple leaves a government issued item?


Yep.

Think of them like a Canadian version of the Krugerrands or Swiss Gold Franks.

They are an exclusive product of the Royal Canadian Mint.

BTW the RCM is having trouble keeping up with demand and some dealers like Kitco have suspended sales.



Gold glitters a little too brightly

An array of gold and silver coins from various mints - including the U.S. Mint and the Royal Canadian Mint - have been temporarily removed from the offerings at Kitco Inc., a precious metals dealer that does a roaring trade online and out of its Montreal office.

The removal, in effect until "further notice," are due to production and delivery delays, the company's website said.

While the U.S. Mint has told its dealers it is ceasing production of some of its popular American Eagle gold coins for the rest of this year, gold coin production at Canada's mint is proceeding as fast as possible, a Royal Canadian Mint spokesperson said yesterday.

"We are filling demand as quickly as we can and getting the orders out there," Christine Aquino said from Ottawa.

She couldn't define the time lag between requests from authorized dealers such as Kitco for gold and silver coins and delivery of those products.

Canada's mint has closer contacts with its suppliers of precious metals than does its U.S. counterpart, Aquino said, and it controls its gold bullion manufacturing process "from start to finish."


The reference to "authorized" dealers make me think that they have to be registered with the government.

Also it's very interesting the the US mint has ceased production of a product in high demand with a rising in price (and a stable production cost?). You would think they would be trying to capture such a great market. The rumours of them being out of gold to make Eagles might be true.

.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by Gools
 


Hold on here...lol...did you start two threads with the same title??

Here is my reply on the other thread....
I find it very odd that Harper seems to try to ignore or downplay the crisis in public while passing laws that continue to crush individual liberty under the guise of terrorism.

If you look at Harper's roots and the roots of Manning we can see some interesting connections.

One that I am exploring is the connection of PM Harper and the Republic of Georgia....ie...Jim Hart who was paid 50, 000 in Canadina dollars and who now lives in Georgia.



Hart resigned as a Member of Parliament in order so that newly elected Canadian Alliance leader Stockwell Day could enter the House of Commons through a by-election. After the by-election, Hart received a severance payment of $50,000 from the Canadian Alliance, which prompted a Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) inquiry. The Canadian Alliance maintained that the payment was made to cover lost income between the time of his resignation and the date of the next election, and was not an inducement.




The Alliance Party is the forerunner of the Conservative party.



In 2004 Hart moved to the Republic of Georgia and worked as an advisor to Speaker Nino Burjanadze.


en.wikipedia.org...(Canadian_politician)

Connection....Manning...Harper..Stockwell and Jim Hart....and the Republic of Georgia!!!

I dare not say more until I explore this further.

The gold transaction law is inspired by actions that point toward thwarted freedom in Canada.

Also look at Opius Day and Harper, the Hells Angels/Harper connection/ the Israel/Georgia/ Harper connection.
www.abovetopsecret.com...'



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by whiteraven
Hold on here...lol...did you start two threads with the same title??


FYI we have always allowed one forum thread and one news thread for news related stories.


Not sure what the rest of your post has to do with the fact that the Canadian Gov't will track precious metals transactions (it's interesting for sure but totally off topic).

.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 03:55 PM
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Sorry, I should tie it all together.

So, the tie with Georgia and Israel , in my opinion is beginning to show the Harper tie with extreme right wing factions of world goverments which ties to the Dec. 30 move to tighten the gold transactions.

The extreme right wing elements of this world are moving to control all parts of our transactions would be part of my conclusion.
PS...I flagged both of your threads as I view this as very important...as my family is in the Pawn buisneess,

[edit on 11-10-2008 by whiteraven]



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 04:08 PM
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They must know that the $10k price may seem like a lot right now...
but in 2 or 3 years, $10k cash will be only an incidental ammount....


ergo up to 50% of everyone not already under surveillance, ala the Patriot Acts et al, will fall under the fed microscope...not new news at that future time --- but a blurb worthy item to reinforce the populace that we are all being watched... 'we' being both the well-to-do and the riff-raff



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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Yep, the world is preparing for the collapse of fiat currencies everywhere. I tend to think that they will not be able to control the fall out as well as they think, or maybe they're just getting desperate. On the one hand I absolutley believe that they would like to maintain the total control they have now and even increase it. But on the other hand 'the best laid plans of mice and men' ya know!



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 05:16 PM
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this won't work ...there is too many public mining sites where jems, and metals can be freely mined. the overwelming paperwork, not to mention fraud will only keep track of law abiding people.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 05:33 PM
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That means only one thing.

A list of those who have precious metals so they can be hunted down when the confiscation starts, because you know, the NWO don't want any competition.

And seriously, TERRORISTS? Are you freaking kidding me? Terrorists... yeah, that is SO subjective. When the NWO crashes the economy on purpose as they are doing right now, people will be pissed. So if you want to organize a resistance/revolution, the only way to finance it would be to have precious metal because everything else will be worthless.

The reports for 2020 from the British analysts was talking about organizing the army against the people because there would be riots...

The scenario, the economy crash, as the NWO wants and are doing right now, they make the precious metals illegals so no one can be more than a slave. Those who have hidden precious metals, they get raided so no revolution or resistance is supported.

Neat. And if they see it will start on december 30, they probably are doing since last year bare minimum.

MORE TYRANNY.



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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In the US dealers must report the sale of $1000+ in gold to the IRS.
and to the state government.

I know all about this as i worked in the mining industry for years.
I had to sell the gold i mined in Nevada to a refiner in Nevada.
if i used a Calif refiner i would be taxed by the state of Calif.
even thought i mined the gold in Nevada and lived in Nevada.

I did get even a few years later and was mining the gold in Calif and selling it in Nevada (no state income tax)and telling my Nevada refiner the i was back working my Nevada mine.

I only found out later my refiner in Nevada knew where i had mined the gold down to what mine in Calif by the trace elements in the raw gold.
If i had tried the same trick in the 1920-30s i would have been arrested for highgrading.

[edit on 12-10-2008 by ANNED]



posted on Oct, 13 2008 @ 03:51 AM
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My company is an authorised dealer for several world mints. You don't need to register as one with the government.

However, we have a second hand goods licence so we are required by law to put all purchases (people selling us items including precious metals) on a database to ensure there are no reports of it being stolen.

Wouldn't surprise me if the government used that database to see who isn't declaring tax on gold sales.



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