It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Heaven and Hell..... Traditional Christianity vs. THE BIBLICAL TRUTH!!!

page: 7
4
<< 4  5  6    8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 10:46 AM
link   
reply to post by Locoman8
 



Ask yourself a simple question: Would a merciful God inflict excruciating pain and torment on human beings for millions and millions of years - throughout all eternity? Could the great Creator God of the universe be that unfeeling and uncaring?


In a word, no. Read that Bible man! did you not see the other "Gods" in there that are against the God Yahweh? Yahweh is naught but a spoiled child, a jealous and spiteful being. why give worship, (root word "work) to a being like this? And what of Jesus? did a man with this name ever exist, or was he all made up? I will leave you with this truth: The Holy Bible is not the only truth, they are in many other books and texts. Don't sell yourself short. Look here, and do some reading...you will perhaps thank yourself later. Please do not discount the page just because it may talk against Christianity, study and obtain why this is first. Reality is not as it seems to be.


jesusneverexisted.com...

www.hebrew4christians.com...

www.slate.com...

www.powerattunements.com...

www.williamtyndale.com...

www.keyofsolomon.net...

www.keyofsolomon.net...




posted on Jan, 12 2009 @ 12:45 AM
link   
reply to post by autowrench
 


I get tickled at athiest posts in christian or religious threads. You do nothing but try and disprove God or Jesus in all your research. Yes I know of pagans with similar stories of virgin births and gods hanging on a tree. I know all about paganism but one thing Judaism/Christianity has over paganism is the fact that prophecies were made prior to these "so-called" stories of gods that parallel Jesus and whatnot. Point is, there is a unique aspect to Jesus. He was human. Personally, I don't want to start arguing about the existence of Jesus or God on this thread. It is meant for christians or Jews who want in on the conversation about certain aspects of christian belief that have been twisted through time. I am following the words of the bible for this thread and nothing outside of it or outside of the abrahamic religions. Please contribute your athiest views to a post made for these points of view. I fear your opinions on this subject will make the thread go off-topic. Please do not take offence of this post but I am trying to keep with the subject at hand and the subject is made for those who believe in God and Jesus.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 02:19 AM
link   
reply to post by Locoman8
 


I think I made the athiest mad. This thread needs to keep on keeping on. It's important for discussion of proper doctrine.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 02:29 AM
link   
How is this for you,

Cristianity is a Death Cult nothing more.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 02:38 AM
link   
reply to post by HulaAnglers
 


Why call it a death cult? I'm alive and well. I'm happy with my life. When I die, it'll be due to matters that were out of my hands. I'm not drinking the red kool-ade or anything like that. You have made a false assumption on me and christianity. Granted, I know there are christian "cults" out there but that's not what I am.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 02:50 AM
link   
No you seem to be extremely good to me, I say this to protect you. It is time to leave the past alone, we cannot continue giving our power away like this, as you can see, religion pits people against each other. I chalenge you, to writing a new line of conduct(a brief bible).

[edit on 4-2-2009 by HulaAnglers]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 03:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by autowrench
did you not see the other "Gods" in there that are against the God Yahweh? Yahweh is naught but a spoiled child, a jealous and spiteful being. why give worship, (root word "work) to a being like this?


its really funny because this idea is not old. many people with other god´s challenged god or god´s people. ¨yahweh¨ has always shown himself to be superior.

where were egypts god´s when yahweh was plagueing egypt?

where was assyria´s gods when their army was taken out by one angel?

where was ba´al when he was challenged to show the people of isreal which god is real?

these other gods are not equal



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 01:48 AM
link   
reply to post by HulaAnglers
 


Get behind me SATAN!!! That's what Jesus said while being tempted in the wilderness for 40 days. I'd rather not be tempted away from my God because, as miriam says, there is no other more powerful than YHWH. I cannot be tempted away from my God. You'll have to write your new bible alone. Sorry to disappoint you.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:50 AM
link   
reply to post by miriam0566
 


That's a good point. God has the power to give and to take away. These fake gods couldn't do anything because they did not spiritually exist as the Abrahamic God does. He grants us to everlasting life or permanent death. The choice is ours of course.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 03:00 AM
link   
I will admit to not having read through all the posts here... just interjecting the point of view of an afterlife according to the Tanakh. It is really quite simple. After - Life = Death. Simple logic applied and all else is not based on the Tanakh, but rather on the Hellenistic views of the NT.

Now, people like to bring up the "resurrection" in Daniel, but understand, the Tanakh is allegorical and to find the Truth in it, one must shed the physical view point to see beyond the surface writing. The Resurrection and any other such "raisings" of the dead are allegorical for awakenings of the spiritual sense... not physical sense. The only after life that the Tanakh speaks of (allegorically) is that in which one leaves behind an impressionable mark here in this life.. even though they are gone.. It is silly to say that one can live after life since that is an oxymoron that contradicts the very Laws of Nature in which G.d created.


The NT's version is EXTREMELY Hellenistic (aka paganistic of the Egyptian origin.. mimicked by the Greece and eventually adapted into Roman mythology).
The NT's view of the "afterlife" haha is not based in the Jewish Tanakh. I have yet to be convinced otherwise.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by justamomma]



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 03:51 AM
link   
reply to post by justamomma
 


What is Tanukh, or whatever you said the Old Testament was? Know that the Old Testament explains the nature of man's death thouroughly enough. Feeblemindedness is what drives the hellenistic views of modern christians.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 05:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by miriam0566
actually it says he went to hell. being as he was dead for 3 days and hell is the grave it makes sense


Jesus preached to those in hell.
So,
Whereever Jesus preached, that was "hell".
Jesus preached in "the world".
So,
"The world" = "hell".

Christ!



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 05:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


I'm just saying it's a possibility. Satan decieves and he's real good at it. I believe the bible. If you are christian, you should believe it also because it's considered holy scripture. Mens hands wrote the bible but it was under divine inspiration as if God was writing the words and the prophets and patriarchs were just moving thier hands. The whole point of this thread is to call BS on everlasting torment in fire and BS in going to heaven the minute you die. There are resurrections in the bible and how can you be resurrected if you're already in heaven? Jesus was the firstfruit of the harvest or the first to be resurrected. It is a fleshly resurrection. Just refer to Ezekiel 37 where he's in the valley of dry bones.


But what is flesh?
Flesh is a metaphysical mind trick.
Naturally, there is mind and spirit, without limitation.
Unnaturally, there is mind-flesh, imposing limits.
Flesh is the manifestation of limited awareness.
So,
Flesh is the sign of a mind sleeping.
Resurrection of flesh is a sign of mind awakening.
When mind awakens fully, flesh is gone.
So,
Jesus no more appears in flesh.

Resurrection is for mind asleep, dreaming of flesh and death.
Mind, as GoD gave it, does not die.
Mind is eternal, unlimited.
Mind, sleeping and dreaming, dreams of the temporal [time], and limited [flesh]...and dying flesh.

Jesus resurrected *before* he went to the cross.
The cross and resurrection were demonstrations for teaching purposes.
Because he was already awake, Jesus taught how to awaken.
We may choose to misunderstand, and remain asleep.
Or,
We may understand and awaken.

The bible says Adam fell asleep.
It does not say he awoke.
Consequently,
All the bible is a nightmare until we get to Jesus.
Jesus is the "second Adam"...because he we the first to awaken.

Resurrection is death-independant.
Resurrection is the acceptance of Life.
Till Life is accepted, we are "the living dead".
We walk and talk, but that does not mean we are alive.
What can die was never alive.
What is alive can never die.

Christ!


[edit on 18-2-2009 by Christ!]



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 05:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by Locoman8
The whole point of this thread is to call BS on everlasting torment in fire and BS in going to heaven the minute you die.


"The world" is "Christ crucified".
So,
"The world" is "hell".

Hell is a belief.
Hell is a sin.
A sin is unbelief in Christ.
Hell is unbelief in Christ.

Hell is faith in what is not Christ.
Faith is the "substance" of things unseen.
Faith is the "evidence" of things hoped for.
Faith is the basis of metaphysical manifestation.
Faith is the basis of magic.
Faith is the basis of hell.
Faith is the basis of "the universe".
"The universe", "hell" and "magic" are the same.

Faith in Christ begins the exodus from hell.
Faith in Christ is eye-opening faith.
Hell is exited through "resurrection".
Hell is entered through blinding faith.

Unbelief in Christ is "Christ crucified".
Christ crucified is all that is anti-christ.
The world is all that is anti-christ.
Time and form are of the world.
Time and form are manifestations of unbelief in Christ.
Time and form are the domain of hell.
Time and form are beliefs.
Time and form are unbeliefs in Christ.

Christ is eternal and formless.
Unbelief in eternal formlessness gives birth to time and form.
Christ is free.
Unbelief in freedom gives birth to slaves of time.
Christ owns life.
Unbelief in Christ yields death as a periodic paycheck to an economic slave.
Unbelief in life yeilds death.
Belief in life and death is unbelief in Christ, which is life only.
Unbelief in life only yeilds what is "born to die".

Christ!








[edit on 18-2-2009 by Christ!]



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 05:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by Locoman8
Your source claims that the 144,000 are raised up to heaven yet no scripture supports that.


that statement is pure interpretation.

there is a ¨heavenly calling¨, ¨fleshly bodies¨ made in to ¨spiritual ones¨, the 144,000 with christ in heaven ¨before¨ the throne of god.

even references to the 144,000 being the bride of christ, the ¨jerusalem above¨.

all these events happen in heaven.

i understand why you feel the way you do, but your interpreting instead of reading.


Twelve, or multiples thereof, translate to mean "everyone".

Christ!



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 06:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by Locoman8
It's not bad you believe that way and I understand if you do but when I read the bible, no support is there for humans in heaven. We were meant for the earth.


There is only truth in Heaven.
So,
There are no humans.
So,
There are no Jews or Greeks, male or female.

Humans, Jews, Greeks, males, females and elves are all mythical creatures.
They do not exist in reality.
Reality is Christ.
Christ is the Truth.
Christ is Heaven.
Heaven is the Kingdom of God.
The Kingdom of God is Paradise.
Paradise is Home.

Heaven is Self.
"Know thy Self" means, "go home".
Heaven is Home, capital "H".
Home is Self, capital "S".
Self is Christ, capital "C".
Christ is the Son of God.
Christ is not the son of man.

Earth is homelessness.
Homelessness is what the "prodigal son" is all about.
Earth is a manifestation of prodigal son.
The universe is a manifestation of prodigal son.
The prodigal son is "Christ crucified".
The prodigal son suffers until he goes home.
Homecoming fulfills all righteousness.
When away from home, and all is suffering, the "right" thing to do is to go home.

Christ!



[edit on 18-2-2009 by Christ!]



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 06:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by miriam0566
being caught up implies that they wouldnt ¨sleep¨. they still die, they are just resurrected instantly if they die AFTER the return of christ.

there is nothing, nothing to suggest that a person can become a spirit without dying.


A lie cannot become the truth unless it dies.
Likewise,
A person cannot become spirit without dying.

One must die to personhood in order to "become" a spirit.
No one can "become" a spirit.
Everyone is spirit trying to "become" something else, ie. persons.
So,
Personhood is a lie.
Personhood must be let to "die" that the truth may live.
Spirit is the truth about the lie of personhood.
Persons must be "translated", "transformed" or "resurrected" to be what they are...spirit.
Persons are dream characters.
Dream characters never enter the waking state.
Awake, there is mind and spirit in truth.
Asleep, there seems to be mind and flesh and confusion.
We consider personhood to be our "life".
But this is not really Life.
In Life, there are no persons.



Christ!



[edit on 18-2-2009 by Christ!]



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 06:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


Do you realize the 2nd death is AFTER the 1000 years? The timeline is:

1. Tribulation
2. Return of Christ
3. 1st Resurrection
4. Satan bound til the 1000 years are up.
5. 1000 years of peace
6. Satan released for a while to decieve the nations
7. Satan and fallen angels first to be judged and thrown into lake of fire.
8. 2nd Resurrection to the White Throne Judgement.... some to everlasting life, some to a 2nd death.
9. Death and Grave thrown into lake of fire
10. New Heaven and New Earth.... the end (or more like "the beginning with no end").

This is the chronology of the book of Revelation. It is laid out in order of ocurrence, not wrapped up in a hop-scotch of mystery and time. The bible defines itself and I will give examples in a few days when I have a free minute. God bless you all.


This is all mixed up because it is not understood.

Start with Life.
Before "death" there was Life.
Life is, was, and always shall be.
Death, then, is a lie.
A lie "lives" where there is no truth.
There is no truth in a dream.
"The world" is a dream.
Birth in the world is not "life".
"Death" in the world is not death.

The birth-death cycle begins with "sin".
Sin is unbelief in Christ.
Unbelief in Christ is a belief in death.
Belief in death cannot cause death.
Belief in death yields an experience of death.
The truth sets us free from the birth-death cycle.
The birth-death cycle is "death".
The world is a birth-death cycle.
The world is death.
The world is a kind of "tomb".
All of time is tomb time.

"Existence" in the world is the same as "death".
The world is a "tomb" for what unbelieves in Christ.
From womb to tomb, all in the world is "born to die".
What is born to die is not really Life.

The birth-death cycle is a dream cycle.
The dream cycle goes round and round.
In dreams, the dead are not really dead, and the living are not really alive.

So,
The "first death" is the beginning of the dream cycle.
The dream cycle begins with Adam sleeping.
The "second death" is the death that comes before resurrection.
The "second death" is the death of death, or, the end of the "first death", or, the end of the birth-death cycle.

The second death comes after the "last judgement".
The last judgement is the end of judgement.
The dream cycle begins with judgment and is maintained by judgement.
Jesus said, "judge not".
To cease judging is to cease to exist as a birth-death cycle dream character.
Dream characters are afraid of this death more than changing characters.
The first death allows one to "be" various characters upon a stage.
The second death ends the stage play for each actor.

All the world is a stage, and we are merely players until we end the script.
The script begins with judgement.
The script ends with the end of judgement [last judgment].
Judgement is the beginning of time.
The last judgement is at the end of time...ends time.

Christ!

[edit on 18-2-2009 by Christ!]



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 10:10 AM
link   
heaven/hell may or not be real for sure but, I've had first hand expierence with reincarnation, maybe somehow they all tie together... I wouldn't use the bible as anything but a reference to be good to your fellow man which I do as much as I possibly can



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 08:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by jheated7
heaven/hell may or not be real for sure but, I've had first hand expierence with reincarnation, maybe somehow they all tie together... I wouldn't use the bible as anything but a reference to be good to your fellow man which I do as much as I possibly can


Reincarnation is the same as reincarceration.
Incarnation is part of the hell experience.
The hell experience is an experience of strange paradox.
Re-carnation is the experience of the "living dead".
It's just an experience.
Experience in hell is not true.
Experience that is not true can be said to be a "dream", or, "nightmare".
Truth wakes dreamers up from dreaming.
Truth sets free from dream-cycles.
Death does not set free.
Only truth sets free.

Christ!

[edit on 20-2-2009 by Christ!]







 
4
<< 4  5  6    8  9 >>

log in

join