U.S. Cutting Armed Forces in Germany by half.

The Pentagon has drafted plans to withdraw as many as half of the 71,000 troops based in Germany as part of an extensive realignment of American military forces that moves away from large concentrations in Europe and Asia, according to U.S. officials.

Under the plan, which is nearing approval, smaller, relatively spartan bases would be established in Romania and possibly Bulgaria and designed for the rapid projection of U.S. military power against terrorists, hostile states and other potential adversaries.

U.S. officials have said before that they intended to eliminate a number of large, full-service Cold War bases abroad and construct a network of more skeletal outposts closer to potential trouble spots in the Middle East and along the Pacific Rim. But neither the proposed size of the reductions in Europe and Asia nor details about locations of the new sites have been previously disclosed.

story.news.yahoo.com... news?tmpl=story&cid=1802&ncid=1802&e=1&u=/washpost/20040325/ts_washpost/a22217_2004mar24

The realignment would amount to a dramatic change in how U.S. forces are positioned around the globe. Some of the troops now overseas would be brought home, while vital equipment would be dispersed more widely to enable more nimble dispatch of forces. Another major objective, officials added, is to deepen military ties and joint training with a greater number of allies in Eastern Europe, Central Asia, Africa and Southeast Asia.

Does this help our military strength / presence in the world or hurt it ?

Is the a move for something "bigger" to come in the future ?

Well, US forces were primarily stationed in Germany to help prevent the USSR from "going West big style". Obviously, the 200,000 US, 100,000 UK (dunno exact figures) troops during the cold war would not have stopped millions of soviet troops and tanks going for a walk in the park. The British government predicted that that longest it could survive after the USSR went West, without lauching nuclear bombers to Moscow woudl be 72 hours.

Troops in Germany are no longer needed. Spreading resources more evenly would greatly benefit the tactics of any nation - provided there is plenty of back up to go with it. Without auxilary support, you cannot do anything properly. I would say it helps the Americans.

(Plus it shows that after two world wars, the Americans are starting to trust the Germans )

I can see this as a financial slap on the wrist to Germany.
Although the reasoning is strategically sound I am relatively certain that this move is a double edged sword, rewarding countries that more fully appreciate the presense of Americans and punishing financially those that don't.

bah the minute we leave, they'll start another world war, just watch....
then again, it may be fun to watch france roll over on this one

Originally posted by Fury
bah the minute we leave, they'll start another world war, just watch....
then again, it may be fun to watch france roll over on this one

I was thinking about that too, we pull out and then the "ugly beast" starts showing it's head again...

I wonder what they'll try first ?

they'll just invade poland and france for kicks

Originally posted by intelgurl
I can see this as a financial slap on the wrist to Germany.
Although the reasoning is strategically sound I am relatively certain that this move is a double edged sword, rewarding countries that more fully appreciate the presense of Americans and punishing financially those that don't.

I totally agree

The majority of US troops stationed in Germany are stationed in the Kaiserslautern Military Community. Rammstein AFB is a stones through away. A reduction would KILL the surrounding economies, just like it did to nearby Pirmasens in 1994.

The bases have to employ a certain number of locals, by law. The bars and dance clubs are filled with GI's on the weekends. Restaraunts have many American customers.

Yes, some of the Germans don't want them there. But the majority either does, or is ambivalent to them.

This is definitely a good move. The reduction of US troops in Germany and the rest of Europe has been disussed for years. The Soviet Union threat is over a decade gone and WWII has been over for almost 60 years. It is time to get out.

I was at two American Bases in Germany this summer and they knew of talks back then to have the troops who were getting ready to deploy to Iraq to be re-distributed to other parts of the globe when their tour in Iraq was up. Mainly the 1st ID.

I think this has more to do with money,than the lack of the cold war.

I bet that if Germany had gone with coalition, our troops would remain there. This will hurt Germany's wallet.
I also think,you will see US military bases popping up in the countries that supported the coalition. It will bring a lot of money to the smaller countries.

This seems like a great all around idea. We don't need huge forces in wentern Europe any more. Putting them in the middle east and in Asia projects our power against terrorism much better. If there are economic implications against Germany, so much the better.

Its about goddamn time. The cold war is over, NATO is no longer relavant. Those troops should be returned home. Not to iraq. But I am glad they are leaving. Its about damn time.

Sorry to disappoint you, fury, but Europe aint gonna have another war. Thats why they have the EU now. let them attenbd to thier own defense, now.

This is indeed an economic slap at germany. I have seen entire communities collapse when bases shut. In Bitburg, they were really worried when we had left, the only economy left in that town being the brewery. This is probably what it is.

But still, id rather those outdated bases close in europe and asia, instead of base clsures here at home. we need the troops here, not there.

Originally posted by nyeff
I think this has more to do with money,than the lack of the cold war.

I bet that if Germany had gone with coalition, our troops would remain there. This will hurt Germany's wallet.
I also think,you will see US military bases popping up in the countries that supported the coalition. It will bring a lot of money to the smaller countries.

The possible dispersement of US troops was talked about long before Iraq war #2. The Germans are more than strong and rich enough to take care of themselves.

Also, almost 60 years after the establishment of the bases, it is time to start getting out.

Originally posted by Facefirst


The possible dispersement of US troops was talked about long before Iraq war #2. The Germans are more than strong and rich enough to take care of themselves.

Also, almost 60 years after the establishment of the bases, it is time to start getting out.

Right. There has been talk for years. But that is it,just talk. I believe the reason for them being there,was to help Germany. Germany,snubbed the US. So we will move our forces somewhere else. And put the money in someone elses pocket.
I do agree that our troops have been there way to long. If the Germans had gone with us to Iraq,I believe something else would have been worked out. So the removal of troops wouldn't hurt as much. I don't thinnk that will happen now.

I am ok with pulling ALL our troops out of Germany. They don't support us, but they want our money - screw'em.
Stick our bases in Romania and Bulgaria and let them benefit from the massive influx of US $'s.

tha moose

I am ok with pulling ALL our troops out of Germany. They don't support us, but they want our money - screw'em.

AGREED!

I think Germany and the rest of europe is big enough to take care of themselves now. There is NO reason for us to have troops there.

I myself would start witdrawing them from EVERYWHERE. Let the rest of the world stand on its own two feet.

They dont need us.

Excellent

cut the troop levels to 'caretaker' forces, so to ramp-up in future as needed.

Increase the size & scope of CID attachments (these equate with FBI operations)

WHY? Because of this Excerpt as example:

-> Shadi Mohammed Mustafa Abdalla, 26, said he
knew of terrorists living in Duisburg, Cologne, Krefeld
and Hann near Dusseldorf....

Germany appears to harbor a greater number of active
terrorist cells than any other Western European country

In fact, it was a Hamburg court that convicted 29 year old Moroccan Mounir al Motassadeq (active terrorist cell in Hamburg) in February 2002 of 'Accessory to Murder'
for the 9-11 attacks.

printer friendly version: www.jinsa.org...
the overview: www.jinsa.org...

??How much is NOT being exposed?? of other terror cells in German cities like Munich, Bremerhaven, Bonn, Berlin...to cite a few
->> The 'Peace Dividend' never materialized, but homeland bases were shut down or privatized by the
local communities, yup..

I think Germany and the rest of europe is big enough to take care of themselves now. There is NO reason for us to have troops there.

I myself would start witdrawing them from EVERYWHERE. Let the rest of the world stand on its own two feet.

Only one reaction -->

America being isolationist has caused more problems than solutions in the last century! The world does not operate without law and order. The last few hundred years saw the British patrolling the world's oceans and less developed countries. Americans took most of out colonies off us at the end of WW2. They spoke out against our rule because they were jealous of out position in the world. You made your bed - now lie in it! You wanted the responsibility, so take it! As the world's most powerful people, it is now your job to police the world. The sooner you accept this the better. Bush is a great leader, though he has many faults - like any human has, because he accepts this.

Originally posted by Humpy

I think Germany and the rest of europe is big enough to take care of themselves now. There is NO reason for us to have troops there.

I myself would start witdrawing them from EVERYWHERE. Let the rest of the world stand on its own two feet.

Only one reaction -->

America being isolationist has caused more problems than solutions in the last century! The world does not operate without law and order. The last few hundred years saw the British patrolling the world's oceans and less developed countries. Americans took most of out colonies off us at the end of WW2. They spoke out against our rule because they were jealous of out position in the world. You made your bed - now lie in it! You wanted the responsibility, so take it! As the world's most powerful people, it is now your job to police the world. The sooner you accept this the better. Bush is a great leader, though he has many faults - like any human has, because he accepts this.

As far as I am concerened yall can have them back.....LOL

As far a wanting the responsabilty I think Americans have been pretty much tricked into this by Our Leaders. As far as use not policing the rest of the world causing problems To me its Yalls problem not ours.

We do not have the Right, the Responsabilty, or the duty to come to everybodys rescue OR bully anyone else into doing things our way at gunpoint.


Let the world solve its own problems

Only one reaction -->

America being isolationist has caused more problems than solutions in the last century!



Yes I am in agreement about isolationism, its been the cause of millions of deaths in the past century, something the left has never answered for I might add.

I like the idea moOse had - lets keep bases on the continent in countries more favorable to the economic and political advantage.

Germany no longer deserves to have american troops and their money.