Rewards and Punishments- Are we Facing God's Wrath?

First off, no more posts about why God created Man. My computer crashed within 12 hours irretrievably. There are some questions that should not be asked...

However, looking at the state of the financial markets and the economies of the world, it makes me ask - are we facing the wrath of God because the majority of humanity has embraced the false God of Materialism? And if there is not a real Beast 666 that oppposes God, is it not the love of money and materialistic success that will cause misery and despair to millions?

In contrast, look at the remote tribes of the world in the Amazon and in Africa, for example, who live happy and fulfilled (rewarded) lives whilst we in the West torture ourselves with cars, consumer goods and house furnushings as well as the location of our next holidays.

It makes you think...doesn't it?

Don't worry about your computer crashing being a sign of God's displeasure. When I find things going bad in a catastrophic way, it usually coincides with me feeling pretty good about myself. When I think I am good and doing good things, all of a sudden something bad happens.
I do not think the stock market crashing is a punishment against greed. It is the result of a small minority of people. These credit default swaps and derivatives were only allowed to happen when they were originated from a select, small group of banks. If you look at the numbers connected to the crash, you keep seeing 700 and 777. It is a code by the Illuminati to show they are the ones in control. So, what we are experiencing is the work of man and it will be a while yet before God steps in and punishes them.
Whatever sin you might be involved in is nothing like what is going on. now. The pure enormity of it is disgusting to think about. They are stealing all the retirement funds of everyone with an IRA or 401K or pension plan.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Don't worry about your computer crashing being a sign of God's displeasure. When I find things going bad in a catastrophic way, it usually coincides with me feeling pretty good about myself. When I think I am good and doing good things, all of a sudden something bad happens.
I do not think the stock market crashing is a punishment against greed. It is the result of a small minority of people. These credit default swaps and derivatives were only allowed to happen when they were originated from a select, small group of banks. If you look at the numbers connected to the crash, you keep seeing 700 and 777. It is a code by the Illuminati to show they are the ones in control. So, what we are experiencing is the work of man and it will be a while yet before God steps in and punishes them.
Whatever sin you might be involved in is nothing like what is going on. now. The pure enormity of it is disgusting to think about. They are stealing all the retirement funds of everyone with an IRA or 401K or pension plan.

jmdewey thanks for your contribution to a thread that was dying on its feet. My evangelical friends (I am not an Evangelist but am trying to reason my way around faith) think that we are judged all the time by God. I just wondered if the present actions are a punishment for our faith in the Materialists who actually run the world.

Your point about the numbers involved is pretty frightening. Could you tell me more about the numbers 700 and 777 because the phrase "The Seven" has come up quite a lot in my life when I have been under attack or threat by people I had never met.

I am not so sure that people have a lot of faith in the ones who seem to be running the world. It seems more like resignation to me. People feel like they are powerless to change things because of the utter corruption that has taken over the government.
I think some of your friends might have a kind of Salem witch trials mentality, looking for hexes being put on them, or something. Things have a way of deteriorating enough on their own without God having to step things up. Satan is the one who is stepping things up because he knows his time is short, so it is not so much that we are being punished by God but Satan creating damage through his agents.
As for the number seven, the Illuminati try to disturb people by making these come up. Specifically, the 700 billion dollars for the so-called bail-out. We were threatened with a stock market crash if we did not pass it. Of course it was a lie that it would actually help things. As soon as it did pass, the next day it dropped 777 points. Some of the newscasters got so freaked out that they would not even say it and would make up another number and report it as if it was real. It is all mind control and their message is that they will get whatever they want. If you look at the financial institutes being bailed out, you notice one is AIG which is basically a CIA front for laundering drug money. Another is Goldman Sachs which is one of the five Banks that make up the Federal Reserve. They are the main conduit for the plunge protection team that works for the White House to prop up prices when the stock market falls too far. They use money straight from the Federal Reserve to do it with. There is a incestuous relationship between these entities; White House, Federal Reserve, AIG, and Goldman Sachs. They all feel their own importance and the importance of their relationship, to, in their own eyes, keep everything under control. This attitude of their own irreplaceableness allows for incredible criminality to take place without any personal repercussions. Once they get into a frenzy of greed, they go unchecked until the parasites kill the host. Watching over this and encouraging this behavior is a bigger power who are more than happy to just take over once things go into chaos. The same thing will happen on a bigger scale than what we just saw, once they do take over. Like I said already, they cause the problem and them offer a fake solution and as soon as power is relinquished, it gets worse.
Here's a little story that might shed some light on who these people might be: The Emperors of China went through different dynasties for thousands of years. They all wanted their own palace and their palace city got bigger and bigger to hold them all, until it covered a huge expanse of land. This was the Forbidden City, where normal people were not allowed into. The British went to Peking and defeated the Chinese army and looted the whole place, going from palace to palace, each one full of tremendous treasures. When they got done robbing the place they torched it. The British soldiers would split up the booty amongst themselves unless it was gold. All the gold went straight to the Queen and the soldiers could not keep a single bit of it.


[edit on 12-10-2008 by jmdewey60]

Originally posted by Heronumber0
First off, no more posts about why God created Man. My computer crashed within 12 hours irretrievably. There are some questions that should not be asked...

That's a good advice, heronumber, a man has no right to question His Creator no more than a clay pot asks the potter who made it.

21:23 He will not be questioned as to that which He doeth, but they will be questioned.

But since its a question that's been asked, God who is the Knower and Hearer of all things whether it be said publicly or kept within one's breast has answered it so that man might not be left with doubt as to his creation.

51:56 I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me.

That is the purpose of our creation yet most people forget this. They have let the world beguile them and distract them from remembrance of God and His purpose in creating us.

6:32 Naught is the life of the world save a pastime and a sport. Better far is the abode of the Hereafter for those who keep their duty (to Allah). Have ye then no sense?

6:70 And forsake those who take their religion for a pastime and a jest, and whom the life of the world beguileth. Remind (mankind) hereby lest a soul be destroyed by what it earneth. It hath beside Allah no friend nor intercessor, and though it offer every compensation it will not be accepted from it. Those are they who perish by their own deserts. For them is drink of boiling water and a painful doom, because they disbelieved.

However, looking at the state of the financial markets and the economies of the world, it makes me ask - are we facing the wrath of God because the majority of humanity has embraced the false God of Materialism? And if there is not a real Beast 666 that oppposes God, is it not the love of money and materialistic success that will cause misery and despair to millions?

Wealth and possessions, your children and your family are a test from God. If one put them all in the right priority, it is well for them but if they love them more than they should and love them with a love that should be only given to God then these blessings from God becomes a curse for them.

9:85 Let not their wealth nor their children please thee! Allah purposeth only to punish them thereby in the world, and that their souls shall pass away while they are disbelievers.

8:28 And know that your possessions and your children are a test, and that with Allah is immense reward.

18:46 Wealth and children are an ornament of life of the world. But the good deeds which endure are better in thy Lord's sight for reward, and better in respect of hope.

34:37 And it is not your wealth nor your children that will bring you near unto Us, but he who believeth and doeth good (he draweth near). As for such, theirs will be twofold reward for what they did, and they will dwell secure in lofty halls.

A reminder from god to those who are deceived by the life of this world:

57:20 Know that the life of this world is only play, and idle talk, and pageantry, and boasting among you, and rivalry in respect of wealth and children; as the likeness of vegetation after rain, whereof the growth is pleasing to the husbandman, but afterward it drieth up and thou seest it turning yellow then it becometh straw. And in the Hereafter there is grievous punishment, and (also) forgiveness from Allah and His good pleasure, whereas the life of the world is but matter of illusion.

3:9 O ye who believe! Let not your wealth nor your children distract you from remembrance of Allah. Those who do so, they are the losers.

Your wealth and your children are a test from God but if you put your duty to God first, they will become gifts from God. One must remember that the Giver is more important than the gift and to cherish the gift more than the Giver is to mock the Giver.


In contrast, look at the remote tribes of the world in the Amazon and in Africa, for example, who live happy and fulfilled (rewarded) lives whilst we in the West torture ourselves with cars, consumer goods and house furnushings as well as the location of our next holidays.


It's because they are content with simple things and they are free from greed. They are more blessed than people who have modern conveniences and food that they want but somehow can never get enough.

The world is like a shadow, if you run towards it, it runs away from you, and when you run from it, it runs after you.

Seek first the Kingdom of God and all the things that you need will be added to you.

Peace!

I guess I agree with all the people who think that this is not judgment from God ,but rather the outcome of human made human problems. A long time ago I looked around at the world and I saw sun and trees and animals I looked at myself and I had two fully functioning arms and legs all my senses are intact I am of normal intelligence ,I am healthy and I am not deformed in any way. I thought to myself wow God has given me everything! I have never asked God for a thing since. I look at the human society as a kind of wolf pack in which you have to fight for whats yours ,giving never really happens, who would give who would receive? I look at these wealthy social vampires as a kind of welfare cripple. They are just the biggest welfare scam ever I guess:bnghd:

Quit trying to live by expectations placed on you by people that tell you to live by the Bible..... Psych hospitals and doctors love the Christian faith, because the religious indoctrination process make them crazy. I worked on 3 psychiatric wards and there were more Crazy Christians than dope addicts, and alcoholics.... That stuff is worse than the hardest street drugs.

JDdewey is correct. The Illuminati or the freemasons control everything, so they can do what they want, when they want, and fool the american people who don't have a clue what is happening.

Now as for punishment from God. God doesn't really force punishment on people, but he's letting free will do his work for him because the corruption and greed and secret lies and the sins of the american people are folding the country from within and it's like God allows them to destroy theirself.

God has however removed his blessings from this country and will continue to do so because of materialism and sin. This place needs to be prayed and fasted for badly.


We are going to enter real soon the most amazing time ever. The age of antichristian movement will get worse, some of us will be imprisoned and or killed for no reason at all. Even the prophecies say that the saints will have to flee from west to east.

So this is the time, this is the time right before antichirst, the global darkness of peoples minds, the global lust that keeps increasing, the global technology that leads people further from God. It is the time before WW3.


what we need to do is pray and stay out of sin and truly lift our heads up because Jesus is that much closer to coming back to claim the Earth again.



700 777

I didn't know that about those numbers. i knew they were in control the whole time, sneaky ass liars, but that's new to me. Thanks for sharing.

Quit trying to live by expectations placed on you by people that tell you to live by the Bible..... Psych hospitals and doctors love the Christian faith, because the religious indoctrination process make them crazy. I worked on 3 psychiatric wards and there were more Crazy Christians than dope addicts, and alcoholics.... That stuff is worse than the hardest street drugs.


No, those (crazy) christians have spiritual issues. The way you recognize a true christian is by their modesty and peace of soul, their fortitude and ability to be sane.

those type are either in sin or literally not doing what they were told to by christ.

and btw those expectations placed on us by the bible are very sane ones.


Love your enemies and love God. blessed are the peacmakers ect..

so that's completely a bias argument.

From what I've read in the bible god will do nothing about what goes on here until the appointed time.As for the economy being in the crapper most christians ignore the cause.They would rather jump up and down over homosexuality,which as far as I can tell Christ never mentioned,than pay any attention to things he did.Jesus began his 3 1/2 year ministry in Jerusalem by driving the corrupt moneychangers from the Temple. He also ended His ministry by attacking the same thieves. It was the only time that the Lord used force during his earthly life.This was Jesus getting violent yet they still would rather yell about queers.The federal reserve bank is owned by money changers.All central banks are owned by money changers.Most people in this country are slaves to them.They caused this collaspe of the economy by fooling with interest rates.Thier monatary system is based on debt,yours.Look in your bible the only time usery was condoned by god was to bring down the phillistiens.Not all people in this country are christians however the majority are.They have allowed and continue to allow the money changers here so don't blame god for the mess.This is one reason I do not claim to be a christian I just try to follow christs teachings.

Many years ago I had done a nice charitable act for a poor Muslim man who worked in a shop nextdoor to the store I worked in. He thanked me many times over and promised he would pray for me in his prayers as an additional form of thanking my kindness.

I said no! Please don't. He laughed and asked why. I said its never a good thing to remind the big guy upstairs I am still around. He laughed again and I smiled and gently stated again, please, seriously, please don't.

I went home early that evening at was grilling outdoors on the grill when I walked into my kitchen to find that an unattended pot of boiling grease had become a cauldrun of flames shooting up into the fan cowling above the stove. I tried to douse it with some flour but only managed to disrupt the flames enough to end up touching off the kitchen cabinets, that quickly caught fire like an old piece of paper. I desperately rushed for a garden hose while my wife called 9-1-1, and stood at one point in my kitchen surrounded by 360 degrees of fire pouring water on it from the hose as fast as I could. It was touch and go for a couple of minutes before I finally got it put out.

A couple of moments later the fire department arrived and the stunned firemen looked at the charred marks up and down the walls and across the floor and angrily asked me if I had put it out myself. Yes, I told them, and they admonished me while questioning my sanity, chiding me for placing myself in what could have easily and quickly become a fatal situation.

I shrugged my shoulders thinking yes, that's me, stone cold crazy, and why I dislike anyone reminding the big guy I am still around.

I knew my friend had went against my wishes and prayed for me in his sunset prayers, the precise time the grease had caught on fire.

I confronted him the next morning and asked him, you did it didn't you? Did whay he asked, I said you prayed for me last night didn't you. Yes, he confided, God needed to know what a wonderful thing you had done for me. I asked, well that didn't happen to be around 6:15 PM was it. Yes he said, my very next prayers I prayed for you, why he asked. Oh I replied, that was the same time my kitchen burned down and almost killed me.

He looked at me in worry, appology and fear, I am so sorry he said, I know you had asked me not to pray for you but I really thought you were joking.

Then came the next question as he was devoutly religious and considers everything to be an act of God's will. He looked at me very worried and said, how come God dislikes you that much?

It was funny because even though he was very friendly and a friend and remained friendly and a friend, it was always less freindly after that, as he worried silently whether it was a good idea or not to be friendly with someone on God's bad list.

Believe it or not I am not religious, but that's a true story, and it's little things like that, that some times make me wonder about what might or might not be in heaven or earth.

We are not facing God's wrath, we are facing God's grace.

In the same way a loving parent would allow negative consequences to come to their child in order to teach them the right way to live, so God does the same. He did not create the consequences, we did through how we've lived our lives and shaped our world. Just as He allows us free will, He also allows us an opportunity to learn from our mistakes.

If a parent were not to allow any negative consequences to come to their children, would they learn anything real? I think they would only learn to take. That's not what God wants from us, He wants us to learn to love, not to take.

I do not think so. Everything that is going on can be traced to somethign that we--mankind--has done. Like the credit crash is just deserts for us spending without thought on credit cards.

First off....

The way you recognize a true christian is by their modesty and peace of soul, their fortitude and ability to be sane.

If this is the case...then man I have met very very few real Christians because almost none that I have met strike me as modest. Instead they strike me as "I know more than you and I am right." If that's modesty...I don't want any part of it...

with the credit issues and such...I will freely admit I don't believe in the Illuminati thing and I don't think this is any holy being's wrath. I think we as a people lived stupidly for a long time and we trusted some untrustable people. Because of that, we suffer our own actions.

-Kyo