American Patriotism Terrifies me!!, page 9
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reply posted on 11-10-2008 @ 04:28 AM by bloodcircle
Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to
post by skeptic1



Is there honestly such a thing as 'responsible' ownership of guns? A gun is a thing that can end a life in a second. If someone is stealing your widescreen tv, does that one second of hate you have equate to taking a life? I've had a $5000 motorbike stolen from me and If i got a hold of the bastard I'd have shot him in the face in an instance, no question. But to be honest, two years later, is a peice of metal worth a life? with or without insurance? Yeah i got the money back, but to be honest i'm a pretty hard ass. I kn oe I would have regretted any spur of the moment action over 'property' which essentially means nothing.


All you've shown here is that YOU would NOT be a 'responsible' gun owner.

Don't paint everyone based on your faults.




reply posted on 11-10-2008 @ 04:41 AM by bloodcircle
Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to
post by YourForever



Have you ever seen or heard of a drive - by knifing? Or victims caught in a cross knifing? Knife victim are almost always the intended target.



Man to stand trial over Japan stabbings

A man who stabbed seven people to death in Japan has been deemed fit to stand trial, and will likely face the death penalty.

Prosecutors have indicted auto worker Tomohiro Kato, 26, over the killing spree, a court official said on Friday.

Kato has been charged with murder and attempted murder, the official said.

He was arrested on June 8 after he rammed a rented truck into pedestrians in the crowded Akihabara district and then got out to randomly stabbed people. Seven people died and 10 others were injured.


Anyway, this is going off post as the original point was patriotism, not which weapon best subdues the populace.


Seemed to me that you were really trying to find a way to denigrate the US with references towards US Patriots and nazi's, followed promptly by you stating this :

Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society


Agenda, meet the open air...



reply posted on 11-10-2008 @ 04:59 AM by SpookyVince
I think a huge lot of people in America are really blind when something comes from outside.

Before the flaming starts, let me explain a few things:
1. I am not American, but work for NATO in a big base, and I personnally know a lot of Americans, all sorts of Americans: republicans, democrats, black or white, hispanic or asians, men, women, children, single or married, military or civilians, from CA to NY and WI to TX, etc., all sorts! I have several very good & close friends in Americans.
2. As a peace lover, I have always considered that all wars are stupid, however some of them are indeed based on "necessities".
3. As a matter of fact, Americans in general know little about the rest of the world, and that is the reason for most of the "stupid" patriotism.

So let's go...
1. When I hear people say "they hate America", it makes me sad. It is simply not true. If we exclude people who are totally blinded & brainwashed of course, there is an enormous difference to be made between hating the president, the politics, the way to do a war, etc. and a country, or i.e. its people. I have many good friends in Americans, again all sorts of Americans. Yet, I hate totally G.W. Bush, and I do totally hate his stupid policies, and I do really hate too the way about that war in Irak. So? What's the problem?

2. I have heard idiotic phrases like "If you're not with us, you're against us". That makes me scream louder than a volcano! In particular, I'm referring here to the war in Irak (again). So what the heck? So, probably 160 countries are against US then? Those mean that US is at war with basically the rest of the world then? Is there anything more stupid than that?

3. Apparently, for a lot of people, when criticizing the US, I am commiting a very serious offence. I don't see well how. US is and has been criticizing a lot of countries in the world too, and that doesn't make them ennemies!

As for the patriotism itself, which is the subject, read above. That above is what makes some kind of patriotism totally unacceptable. That is what makes a lot of people who are as blinded as those suicide bombers in other countries, also very stupid. That is what makes a number of people ignorant by choice: rejecting difference. The world cannot be different, to them. But I am sorry, the world is very different.

I live in a small country that's named Belgium. And I am really very proud about all the differences between here & the US, and the rest of the world. It is my country.

You know for instance, I have met people who complained all the time in here that there wasn't a King Burger or McDo available at every street corner. Well I'm sorry, but that crap is not welcome in Belgium, and that's our ways. We do care a lot more than you about what we eat. Eating means sitting at a table, with a plate, a fork and a knife. We don't eat with hands. If I go to US, I am totally saddened by the food. I can't have a steak the way I want (rare, very rare) because it's illegal. Fresh vegetables are nearly non existent, and amazingly expensive. You never have good leek, endives, asparagus, or others. Bread is tasteless. Fa(s)t food is everywhere. Even a simple canned soup tastes horrible... I could rant about it, but what's the point? Even a proper Italian restaurant over there serves a food that's not even close to italian, it has to "fit the taste of the people"... I know it, that's the way over there. Unless I'm willing to pay a fortune, I'm gonna eat crap. Fine. I'm coming back to Belgium...

We have a better education, we have better social aid, we have better health care, we have better food (absolutely way beyond question), we have better beer and wine, we have better chocolate, we have better media, we have many more things that are better, you wouldn't believe. We do also have things that are not as good (and I let you go quoting them, I'm sure you'll feel happy to do so).

But one way or another... Why do I say that it's better? Because I prefer it. If you do not like it, then fine, but let me prefer it! I say it is better because I think it is better. You do not? Once again, fine! There is something that a lot of people wrapped in their stars-and-striped-patriotism apparently cannot accept: let's just agree that we disagree. Between educated and good sensed people, difference is not a problem, it is an advantage!

I have even met a person (just one, luckily), about 5 years and a half ago (when that war started...), who was afraid to go out of the base!! He was, mind boggling thing, afraid to go out of the base, in Belgium! He thought he was in enemy territory!!! How totally astounding is this?

Patriotism should never forget that the rest of the world, the whole world has also the right to be patriots, and thus to be different.

Patriotism should never forget that someone else, being proud of their own country and ways, does not make an enemy because of that.

Patriotism should never forget that time elapses, things and people change, the world evolves, and today is not yesterday, as well as tomorrow will be different. Patriotism should not mean immobilism.

Finally, patriots should not forget that it's not because they'll wave their flag in front of me, proudly declaring "I am an American" (or for the record, any other country would do), it does not make them better. Liking your country is as personal as liking a song or a painting.

Patriotism was probably invented by some politician who had no support from his people, just as a reason to keep them liking him, by mistaking the president/king/... for the country, considering some sort of "the chief is the country".

Something to think about.


reply posted on 11-10-2008 @ 06:16 AM by KOGDOG
Patriotism is the basic instinct of tribalism & territoriality that from birth infects us all. Animals do it.... so do humans. What you might be seeking is what Jesus had to offer when He preached the Kingdom of God. If you only perceive Jesus as a "smart Jewboy born on the wrong side of the chariot tracks" then at least give the man credit for His brilliant socio-political analysis of the world. He attempted to end the animalistic wars over territory and resources by preaching that all must be "born again" into a new set of institutions that are not rooted in the dirt from which we emerged. It would work if more folks listened to Him. Unfortunately even so-called "believers" have perverted His message and now use it as white wash to disguise and fuel "patriotic" aggression for money/power/etc. Bush stated that "You are either with us or against us" when he began his "never ending war on terror". This was his way of saying you must show your "patriotism" or be targeted. When I first finished reading the Bible I actually slammed it down on the kitchen table and laughed. I knew exactly what this Jesus fellow was talking about. The "End Times" scenario describing persecution of "Christians" will be one of wars that demand "patriotism" from all citizens. Since "Christians" say that their Kingdom is not of this earth they will be attacked for not displaying what you have correctly defined to be the basis for all "terrorism"....... = Patriotism.



reply posted on 11-10-2008 @ 06:27 AM by Sailor1
Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to
post by skeptic1



If no-one else had a gun, why would you need one? Why not take away your right to own one? What's next? Don't take away my right to own Inter continental Ballistic Missiles?

An exaggeration but i'm sure the reasonable amongst you will gt my point.

So what's the difference between patriotism and blind patriotism?

In the end it seem to me that you all follow it till it goes wrong then you claim ou were following 'the other form of patriotism'.

But anyway, what is the deal with a 'war president'?


Irregardless of who owns a gun or not, if an old woman living alone in a bad neighborhood did not have a gun she would/could be at the mercy of whoever wants to accost her (as sad as that is). You must agree that an old woman or old man would be at a severe disadvantage against a younger assailant, so your point that "If no-one else had a gun, why would you need one?" makes no sense, This world is scary enough for the elderly and you want to completely disarm them.. thanks but NO thanks.


reply posted on 11-10-2008 @ 06:35 AM by Merriman Weir
Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

You are kidding right? Have you never met a member of the BNP in the UK? Have you ever been to some of the more violent pubs and heard the racist, xenophobic, blindly patriotic ranting?


There's a good chance that I've 'ran' into more members of the BNP and groups like Blood and Honour than you have and certainly more than I think you think I have.

It happens in every country, we all have our pockets of fanatic patiots. People who will not hear anything against their country, even when it's doing something wrong.


You're completely misunderstanding my point. I'm not speaking specifically about a peculiar and specific xenophobic, racist subsection of society. As you say yourself, that appears everywhere. I'm not suggesting that that is somehow unique to America and I've certainly not said that explicitly in my post. I'm talking about a more general patriotism and pride in their country.

What I am saying is true: there's no country in the Western world that encourages patriotism in the way that America does. Are you seriously suggesting Britain has a patriot culture in the same way America does?

We don't have a flag culture in the same way America does. Our flag waving is perceived as having a very different connotation than it does in America and we don't have a 'pledge' in this country. Pride in the flag is generally seen as an anachronism here or the domain of racists, or football fans or fans of the 'swinging sixties'. This was proven by our own government when they tried to instil a 'Cool Britannia' ethic during the early days of New Labour - it was acknowledged by our own government that there was a lack of national pride and patriotism.

We don't have a patriotism that's based on the belief that we're the epicentre of everything that matters in the world - which is, right or wrong, how a lot of Americans see it due to recent/current 'superpower' status.

I'm really not sure of how you can compare Britain with American in this.

[edit on 11-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]


reply posted on 11-10-2008 @ 06:54 AM by MorningStar8741
reply to post by The_Modulus



What????? Questioning the justification for owning a gun???? Showing the statitistics to prove that justification for owning a gun is utterly insane is completely anti-American. We need to say we need them for protection even if we have almost nothing to protect ourselves from, are cowards when a riot DOES break out, and hand them over willingly to the group of AK weilding soldiers that come to confiscate them during times of crisis.

I see alot of big talk on this thread but so far it is nothing more than just that. All the people that feel they only way they can prove they love America is to own a gun are really passing something wonderful along to the next generation arent they. Healthcare? Jobs? Affordable food and housing? You do not need such things my children, you have the right to own a gun until it is confiscated!


reply posted on 11-10-2008 @ 07:28 AM by Slagroom
Originally posted by anotherdad
reply to
post by Thebudweiserstuntman



What country are you from?

And you refer to America like the Nazi's, Who's land have we taken. We gave France, Germany, Spain, Italy, soon Iraq..............on so on there land back.
Wow, it is exactly that type of nonsense that makes you scary. You gave those nations nothing but your bullsh_t capitalism. Now YOU need to pay up, but you never will. You'd rather take down the rest of the world with you.
THAT is what is scary about many americans; they seem to forget they live under one and the same Sun as everybody else on this planet, they're NOT special, they're not better at anything, they've merely been lucky with a couple of their backgrounds (which most americans don't even know anything about). On average they're rather stupid, even. (Exceptions not counted of course..)
In addition, those history lessons you seem to get in school in the US are way biased in favor of the scary patriotism. In case you forgot:
There was no America, it got discovered by Europeans. So if anything, those Europeans helped their parents, nothing more nothing less. So shut it already with your BS about that.

Nations and some idiotic lines drawn on maps of our planet are the ONLY reason humanity is still so retarded. Patriotism is just the extension of that; the ridiculous concept of "owning land". You don't own sh_t, people, this planet owns you and you better learn how to deal with that.

[edit on 11-10-2008 by Slagroom]
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