American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

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posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 02:23 AM
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Originally posted by amazed

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by JipStix
 


Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society


? In a civilized society? How did you come to that conclusion? Murders, rapes, peoples homes and cars being broke into, drugs, single parent homes, spousal abuse, wars, bombs, starvation, disease, homelessness, uneducated, well I could go on but you get my drift right?

I am a new gun owner, I "overcompensate" for this "civilized" society that we live in.


im holding my AR-15 right now waiting for an intruder.




posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman
 


chemical weapons, sanctions that only starve the common population, not the despots in power, globalization, greed, raping and pillaging by UN PEACEKEEPERS...


Yeah, guns are not necessary in a civilized world. too bad that a "civilized world" is not what we live in.

If anybody comes through my door to do me or my family harm they can expect to be met with lead and steel. I've got 00 and hydrashoks for anyone who wants to fu ck with this nigg@.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 02:27 AM
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reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman
 


Umm...As a Texan I can say you are 100 percent wrong. Down here it is Texas first USA second. We get called far right..But the reality is we are PRO FREEDOM. Our freedom. We don not really give a crap about the freedom you have in NY, CA, IL or whatever. To us you look like thugs in suits. So unless you are from here, dont assume to know what we feel. We ignore many fed laws. Pray at football games, hand out bibles in school and courtrooms......Whatever....Unless we agree we will not go along like blind sheep. In many ways we are still fighting the civil war down here. There are two things you can count on. Obama will never win Texas. Not even in a time of war, or if he switched to the GOP. Second, pass all the laws you want on guns, and whatever else. We will still do what we want..Push us hard enough and you will have a million Waco's. TEXAS FIRST!

As for the Mr T comment ..whatever your name is ....
Nope big bank account, big ummm err thingy, and big guns. So try again.

[edit on 11-10-2008 by TXMACHINEGUNDLR]

[edit on 11-10-2008 by TXMACHINEGUNDLR]



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 02:27 AM
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Far from winning anything. Why is it when anyone even hints that there might be an issue with Bush's policy, we have to hear about Clinton. Guess what, Clinton is not president now. I, myself, have never once criticized Bush and let Clinton slide on the same thing but the fact is Clinton is no longer in charge. Please stop bringing up what he did to justify what Bush is doing. Two wrongs do not make a right. Bashing Bush does not = praising Clinton. Sorry but some people have issues with both but it just seems a little pointless to worry about Clinton bombing anyone right now doesnt it? I tried to explain to my boss that I screwed up because the guy who had my job 8 years ago screwed up and it did not fly.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
3. Is this an unjust war? why?



Quite a bit of information here you might be interested in. Might take a few coffee trips though
Remember, where there is smoke there is fire




[edit on 11-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
Why didnt anyone come out shooting in New Orleans when they came for their guns ?
Everyone keeps saying if they come to take your guns you will shoot ..they didnt did they ?


This kind of touches upon something I wonder about. All this about the American being able to defend himself against the government just seems weird to me. I mean, I understand the sentiment but really? Is that going to happen? What will it take? Soldiers at the front door? By the time that happens, Americans will have nothing to defend anyway.

At the moment, Americans, like much of the Western world have just stood and watched as governments have allowed us all to get completely shafted by bankers and big business. It's got to the point where our political systems are a sham. Our voting is flawed and we have no real choice. The vast bulk of us are getting poorer year-on-year whilst the rich get significantly richer. Whether you believe global warming is completely driven by man's contribution or not, there is climate change and it's going to affect most of the world and yet we watch Big Business say 'no' because countermeasures are bad for profits.

Seriously, all this talk about defending against the government, what the # are you waiting for? How bad is it going to be before you'll actually defend yourselves? As I said at the start of the post, if you're waiting for soldiers at your front door, you've left it too late and you might as well hand your guns over to them as you won't have anything left to defend.

To make it worse, often these kinds of arguments lack consistency. I'm tired of reading of how, if we had guns in Britain, thugs with knives wouldn't be an issue because, the logic offered is you don't bring a knife to a gunfight. Yet, this is exactly what the 'defenders of America' are proposing, taking on the government with its army and police &c with vastly inferior weaponry.

Again, I appreciate the sentiment. I honestly think it's a noble one and a good one. But one that will every really be acted upon? I seriously doubt it.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman
 


Umm...As a Texan I can say you are 100 percent wrong. Down here it is Texas first USA second. We get called far right..But the reality is we are PRO FREEDOM. Our freedom. We don not really give a crap about the freedom you have in NY, CA, IL or whatever. To us you look like thugs in suits. So unless you are from here, dont assume to know what we feel. We ignore many fed laws. Pray at football games, hand out bibles in school and courtrooms......Whatever....Unless we agree we will not go along like blind sheep. In many ways we are still fighting the civil war down here. There are two things you can count on. Obama will never win Texas. Not even in a time of war, or if he switched to the GOP. Second, pass all the laws you want on guns, and whatever else. We will still do what we want..Push us hard enough and you will have a million Waco's. TEXAS FIRST!

As for the Lipstick whatever your name is ....
Nope big bank account, big ummm err thingy, and big guns. So try again.

[edit on 11-10-2008 by TXMACHINEGUNDLR]


Can someone please explain to me what is so patriotic about disparaging the rest of the country as well as claiming to still be fighting the war to keep slaves as well as threatening violence to the Union for the laws that it makes? Is that patriotic?



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman
 


what if the govt took away your amendments with a swipe of a pen. then took away something you took for granted, now what?



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
Why didnt anyone come out shooting in New Orleans when they came for their guns ?
Everyone keeps saying if they come to take your guns you will shoot ..they didnt did they ?

I asked a dear friend of mine once ..will you really shoot the very men you claim are fighting for our country ..the ones you say have every right to kill the enemy ..and then turn and shoot them when they come for your guns ?And dont yall know that you will be OUTNUMBERED and will then be shot on the spot (Your family will be too) ...just so you can keep your gun ..how is that going to make you feel then >? Because you wanted to hold onto that posession you lost your whole family and your own life maybe or you may live and just go directly to jail) .And then have to live with the fact that your family was killed just so you could keep your gun ..



About hunting ...I have nothing against hunting and killing for food ...We had no choice but to do that in Alaska when we lived off the land completely in my childhood .....(I do have a problem though if your just doing it for the antlers )

[edit on 11-10-2008 by Simplynoone]


Pretty good point. So, the L.A. riots happend in a country with guns. Guns were confiscated just fine after Katrina in a country with guns. I am afraid that the people claiming these guns are their last bastion of freedom are talking out of the side of their face.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 02:53 AM
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reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman
 


Well, yes and no. I think most of the "terrifying" American's you are seeing are the 24-35% of Americans who blindly support Bush. These people are actually falling prey to FASCISM in our country. Sinclair Lewis said "When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." I could not have done a better job of describing the core of Bush's campaign message. The problem is, this type of message forces people to have complete faith in "the great leader" and his infallible nature. This forces them to, despite mountainous proof the the contrary, believe he is never wrong and that everything he does is somehow correct. Where this becomes terrifying is when these supporters start to feel pressure to believe that their leader, and by proxy, they themselves, is wrong. Facing this pressure they choose to lash out, hence the terrifying patriotism.

I too consider myself to be an ardent patriot. However, I do not feel that everything that is done by America is t perfect, or the best way, or for that matter correct. But the good thing is, I feel that the Dark Ages of the Bush presidency are almost over. That is to say, at least I hope they are.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 03:08 AM
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*snip*

1. Yes, the modern army is a volunteer army. I'm sure though if you take the time to read over the contract, no where does it say you will have to risk your life for oil, and that's really what this war is all about. It has nothing to do with being a war on terror, Iraq posed no risk to us at all. The fact that they said they did was just some more of his good old fashioned brainwashing so he could get his hands on oil. and look like a hero in the publics eyes for going after all of the "baddies". In fact if you take a look at most of his target countries, isn't it a little odd that all of these countries have an excessive amount of oil? You also have to remember that Bush also wanted to finish the job that Daddy never finished so he can feel like more of a man. I would love to know where you get your numbers... 90% signed up AFTER the war? I find that a bit hard to believe.

2. ONLY 5000? One soldier killed in this war is too many because we shouldn't have even been there to begin with. How many of those that were killed left families behind? What about all of the ones who were wounded? Or are they just collateral damage to you?

3. This is definately an unjust war, because we should have never been there to begin with. Bush was fighting his little war on terror... Iraq was no threat to us. Actually here is some food for thought. Why is the United States the only country that is allowed to have nuclear weapons? In my opinion, if we are telling other countries they can't have nukes, we sure as hell better get rid of ours too.

3(a) It's unjust because the only reason we are there is so Bush can get his hands on oil.

3(b) I never agreed with Clinton going into Iraq either.. We have no business being over there. Bush has not been successful at all. Have you not noticed we are still there? All of the billions of dollars he is spending on that lost cause could have actually helped the country out in it's current condition.

3 (c) This really makes me laugh, you are actually sticking up for someone who is going to go down in the history books as being the worst president in history. America has never been so hated since this dim wit has gotten into office. Also if you haven't noticed, take a look at the economy... So tell me... What has Bush done for you? LOL

[edit on 11-10-2008 by statickitt3n]

Mod Edit:Courtesy is Mandatory. Please review this link

[edit on 12-10-2008 by GAOTU789]



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by Grumble
 


We don't have kooloaid, thats an american construct, like patriotism!


[edit on 10-10-2008 by Thebudweiserstuntman]


The word patriotism actually comes from a Greek word meaning fatherland, so your wrong, it is not an American construct at all.

For me being a patriot is meaning I have a love of my country and a wish to see it prosper in a way that includes everyone, not just a few. If I blindly follow my government and never question anything I am told, how can I see my country become the best that is possible for my country? Sometimes I really view myself as a "human" patriot, as I don't wish just for my own country to prosper, but for all humanity to prosper, take that as you will. I do "love" my country, I love the ideas that this country was founded on, I love this constitution, even the part that allows me to own guns
, I love that I was born in this country.

If I did not love my country, I would not ask questions as to how well it is being taken care of and what type of people are making those decisions. If I did not question, then that would show no love, therefore no true patriotism.

IMO



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 03:35 AM
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reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman
 


Guess what happens when everyone gives up their rights to own guns in hope of some superficial world peace; those that have the guns dictate what goes. And guess who are those that will own these guns... most likely the government or whomever is behind NWO or even occupation of your homeland by Military troops under NWO in which we'd have no way to defend what is rightfully ours; freedom.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 03:37 AM
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reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman
 


I am an american. I agree with your post.

What is weird is that this country is split 50/50 right now. Uber patriots who will do anything and the people who see the problems.

Is that manafactured? Honsetly I don't know. But if there is a shift that favors any one side I would be worried.

I almost feel as if this country is some sort of experiement.
Maybe it is?



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 03:52 AM
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Originally posted by fingapointa
The second post, in it's entirety.


Second Posting by Thebudweiserstuntman
Second post by OP

Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by drock905
reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman
 


I am an american. I agree with your post.

What is weird is that this country is split 50/50 right now. Uber patriots who will do anything and the people who see the problems.

Is that manafactured? Honsetly I don't know. But if there is a shift that favors any one side I would be worried.

I almost feel as if this country is some sort of experiement.
Maybe it is?


I think the same thing all the time.

HER in WV patriotism is just a tool the GOP and their good ole boys get the south
to shoot themselves in the face every four years.

Look at the flag while we inflate the dollar and keep you pay check light.

as far as the experiment...

I think it is a natural occurrence, like a real observable YIN YANG thing.

RIGHTIES THINK - THE idea of life is sacred - save the unborn

LEFTIES THINK- Life itself is sacred - save the living

IS it right vs. wrong?

THE FORCE AND THE DARK SIDE?



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 03:57 AM
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Why exactly have you only singled out American patriotism here? Patriotism for patriotisms sake worries me whichever country it comes from.

The people who scream "support our troops" against anyone who thinks the war is bad are the patriots that worry me. They are blinded by their partiorism and are people who are easily manipulated. They are the sorts of people who would become the brown shirts.

Thinking for yourself is always good and realising that your home country isn't always right is also good.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Why exactly have you only singled out American patriotism here? Patriotism for patriotisms sake worries me whichever country it comes from.


I couldn't agree more.
Couldn't that be a possible definition for fanaticism.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by BluegrassRevolutionary
 


Basically yes it could. I think Oscar Wilde said "patriotism is a virtue of the vicious". We all might love our country but there are extremes when people can't hear anything against their country otherwise they get aggressive and mad. This isn't just the USA, it's any country and it's why this thread needs to be retitled.

The very fact you picked on the US here could show a sort of xenophobia on your part Thebudweiserstuntman



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 04:22 AM
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you guys dont know what patriotism is

you sound like govt trolls to me...





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