American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

American patriotism bothers you? Gun ownership bothers you? You don't understand gun ownership?

I have no idea where you're from, but it certainly isn't the United States.

I'm from the South of the United States. I volunteered to serve in the military, and volunteered three times to serve in combat. I did my job and was decorated for valor.

I had a bad guy fall right on top of me in the middle of my sleep. Fortunately, he dropped his AK as he came down on top of me. We both went for our knives, and I'm the one writing right now. I can assure you that shooting my foes was much cleaner, easier, less straining, less exhilarating, less stressful, and less upsetting than having him dance on the end of your blade face to face.

And on two occasions, I've stopped someone from getting hurt. I don't know, they seem to change their minds.

And what the hell does the South have to do with it? Have you been up North and seen the men there wearing panties or something? I served in combat with men from six different nations and every state in the nation, and I can tell you that fortunately, we have some really bad (bad for a predator) SOB's everywhere you look. North, South, East, and West.

I recollect seeing an ad in an old newspaper that Britain ran in newspapers (right after Dunkirk) all over the United States, begging for individual Americans to send weapons to Britain. They wanted pistols, shotguns, and rifles, of all calibers. Why? They had outlawed private ownership of weapons, and Germany was looking to invade!

Yet today, no private ownership of firearms as in the US. We as a people don't have to rely on our military entirely. Hell, some of the "good old boys" down here can not only stand alongside our miltary, but can bring their own rifles that match those of the soldiers.

Let's get back on topic here. American Patriotism. I happen to love the folks who inhabit this chunk of land. I think the world is a better place because of the USA. It has stood as a beacon of freedom, and individualism for many years. It truly is the melting pot of the world. Folks flock here for her bounty and most find a way to make it their home. There is culture here, and wealth, and a true human spirit that binds us.

That being said, the above thought was about the people, and not the government. Lots of folks living here are so dismayed at how far things have gone here, that we feel we live on a foreign and hostile world.

Makes me sad to post this.

[edit on 10-10-2008 by tmbandt]

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by skeptic1

 

Is there honestly such a thing as 'responsible' ownership of guns? A gun is a thing that can end a life in a second. If someone is stealing your widescreen tv, does that one second of hate you have equate to taking a life? I've had a $5000 motorbike stolen from me and If i got a hold of the bastard I'd have shot him in the face in an instance, no question. But to be honest, two years later, is a peice of metal worth a life? with or without insurance? Yeah i got the money back, but to be honest i'm a pretty hard ass. I kn oe I would have regretted any spur of the moment action over 'property' which essentially means nothing.

You're damn right if someone is stealing your TV it's worth it to blast them in the face and kill them. Because if they're stealing your TV that means they are IN YOUR HOME, they have invaded the property of your home and god knows what else they are willing to do to your family or your children. Just 2 weeks ago was the story of the father who killed a home invader who had climbed into his 17 year old daughter's window to rape her. But if that same criminal would have climbed in through a different window and stole a TV, who is to say he wouldn't have taken other liberties as well, who's to say he still wouldn't have raped that daughter? Point is if you're breaking into someone's home you deserve to be shot period, if that shot happens to end your life then OH WELL, that's a decision that YOU made when you decided to break into someone's home and a risk that YOU decided to live with.

The problem of why you foreigners can't seem to understand or grasp our country's need for the 2nd ammendment and guns is because you don't seem to grasp our history. It differs from that of yours. Our country was founded on the ideals of the 'frontier', people like Daniel Boon exemplified the courage and virtues of our nation's settlers, explorers, and forebearers. Our country was founded and explored by frontiersmen like Boon and Lewis and Clark and such who packed guns traveled out west, settled wherever they like and discovered lands for our people to inhabit. That gun and hunting culture thus has grown to be an intrinsic part of our national unity and our national identity. Your countries, like UK, Germany etc are much smaller and have long been 'discovered' so you don't share nor understand these ideals and concepts. You didn't have the outlaw wild west like we did where a man needed guns for protection to survive. Our entire culture is based on this identity, and our entire nation is founded on the ideals of rebellion, the nation was CREATED by citizens rebelling against a tyrannical monarchy with GUNS and for that alone we hold that as our highest and most important ideal. The fact that we have a gun to the throat of our own government is what makes us Americans and what makes us different than the rest of the world. Because we know that our very own constitution written by our forefathers and now starkly ignored and spit upon by our current leaders, gives us the god given RIGHT to over throw our own government by force with our arms should it ever tread on us tyrannically. No we will not give up our guns, I don't care how many phony studies people link that shows that gun proliferation is a cause for gun violence and deaths. Because for every one of those studies I can link counter-studies that show that proliferation of guns as defense has STOPPED crimes. I myself do not like the idea of guns. I don't have a gun and I don't like the idea that walking about on the street there could be people carrying guns on their person. However, if I think about living as a nation where my government denies me that right, where the citizenry is deliberately DISARMED and made a meek and abject slave to the government, it disgusts me and makes me realize the need for the 2nd amendment. How are you going to defend yourself from a tyrannical government if you are not armed? Are the people going to raid government weapons caches? It's impossible. Like I said it's our national identity here and if you can't understand it, then just accept it, 'cus it 'ain't changin'.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


Hey, when it comes to guns, think about this for a second.

Let's imagine for a minute that guns were outlawed "No more guns for you civilians!".
So nobody has a gun, does that mean that gun crimes won't exist?
No.
Why?

1. You can make a gun, they do it in prisons all the time.

2. If you're a criminal, you're going to try and get a gun somehow, so buying one off the black market will be your prime choice.

3. If the civilians don't have guns, but the military does, then what about when the gov turns on us and places us all under martial law? "To defend against tyranny both foriegn and domestic".

4. Ok, so let's take guns away from the military then to solve problem number 3, well what'd ya know, here comes another country to take us over.

So what's the solution? Let everyone take a gun everywhere, but to own a gun, you must pass a lot of tests.
There are towns near whee where I live where in order to live there, you must own a gun, those towns have 0 crime.

Why is that?

Let's say everyone has a gun at a bank, the customers, the bank tellers, ect., so a guy who wants to rob the bank steps in and pulls out his gun and tells everyone to give him money or whatever, well, chances are, he's going to leave the bank in a body bag, so that would never happen, there would be no bank robberies.

Also, you don't know jack hearing you talk about Texas, we've had some of the greatest people in this country come from Texas, for instance, Ron Paul (Republican Texas Congressman), Alex Jones (He was one of the main inspirations for Chris Carter's "The X-Files", Alex is also one of the people who sheds some of the most light on the dirty schemes the government comes up with) those are the two most influential people I can think of right now.

There's a lot of good and good people that have come out of Texas, we have a thriving economy and very advance technology. There are a lot of good people in Texas that are going to fight against the NWO when it happens.

-Lahara

Oh, America you so fine,
you so fine you blow my mind
America. . .
Amerika. . .

It's very telling that the majority of Amerikan posters on this thread (with some notable exceptions) instantly equate patriotism with gun ownership.

How does patriotism = gun ownership = patriotism?
Does patriotism increase with calibre?
Are 9mm owners more patriotic than .22 owners?
Is it patriotic to measure calibre with the metric system?

Patriotism, or Fear and Loathing???

reply to post by fingapointa


Just to clarify...

Actually the original poster brought up gun ownership and people responded. I think it had something to do with a reference to gun owners not being quite civilized.

reply to post by rufusdrak


See this is the reason why I hate guns.
Seriously yall would kill for stuff ? And risk your family getting killed because your gonna protect that stuff ? Even with a gun in your hand there is a very good chance that you will not be the winner here and walk away with your life,your familys life,and your stuff ...Your really willing to take that risk and have all those family members blood on your hands and a few bad guys to boot .......for a bunch of stuff that can be replaced really easily and not only that but is more than likely insured for more than its worth ?

If someone comes for my stuff I would gladly help them load it ..(it is just a bunch of meaningless stuff )
It means nothing to me ..and if they need it that bad then so be it .
None of it is worth risking my life or my loved ones lives .

The original post, in it's entirety.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
Is it just me or does anyone else find American Patriotism worrying?

Most of the threads on this site, particularly from the southern states such as Texas, to name but a few, seem to blindly accept whatever America does without question.
It honestly reminds me of German Nationalism immediately prior to World War II, particularly the whole flag waving culture that now seems to be embedded in America.

The fact that Bush came into power under the guise of a 'War Presiedent' even before Iraq etc terrifies me and has no place in a modern civilisation.

Anyway, this is not a 'Flame' on America. I hope some Americans can prove me wrong. Let's keep this civil, i'm just looking to be corrected.

Discuss!!

But thanks for the clarification, you really set me straight.
Now, please answer my questions. Thank you.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by rufusdrak

 

Seriously yall would kill for stuff ?

no. but if a stranger is in your house you dont know their intent. a gun might scare em away. shoot them in an extremity and wait for the cops. that, my friend, might be a deterrent from your neighbor /family/friend having to experience the same ordeal on a different night.

guns break the cycle of repeat offenses from thieves, ultimately negating the need for guns. of course some think that religion was just invented to keep poor people from hitting rich people on the head with rocks and stealing their stuff.

[edit on 10-10-2008 by drsmooth23]

reply to post by fingapointa


Patriotism is about your country, the laws of your country, and your guaranteed rights as a citizen.

Ownership of firearms here is a basic right, guaranteed by our law, backed up by our government.

Our guns are our guaranteed right, backed up by our government, of the people.

That my friend, is called patriotism.

By contrast, Europe is a tired old group of former foes who want a collective tired old approach to civilization. And Europe is about to learn the old lessons the hard way. One hundred armed Muslims could shut down the entire continent. And at that point, a .45 in the hand will beat a carload of rationalism any day of the week.

Let fanatics try that crap here in the US. Especially in the . . . what was suggested???? . . . oh yes. The South. Someone is going to have some very short careers.

I do recollect what a group of Islamic teens did in France a while back, setting cars and such on fire. And no one could stop them because only the police were armed! Just wait until they get serious.

Nope. The world isn't rid of bad guys, and I'll keep mine until that day.

reply to post by fingapointa

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by JipStix

 

Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society

And, here's his second post. Hence the discussion on guns. I don't recall anyone linking guns with patriotism. Except in regards to being proud of and upholding the rights granted to us per our Constitution.



[edit on 10/10/2008 by skeptic1]

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


Here is good example of what you are talking about. Americans pretending that Americans doing bad things is either ok or should just be ignored for the greater good or something...

here

As an American, I agree with you. It is scary what some people will accept as justifiable patriotism with no basis in reality or truth or history involved at all. I guess you also cannot acknowledge there may be flaws with the country. It is apparently much more patriotic to pretend we are better than everyone else and if they are too stupid to realize that, eventually we will kill them into understanding.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by WisdomInChains

 

YOun really think guns are what keep a society civilised!? Ok then, how many drive by-s were recorde in Glasgow min the last ten years??

Hmmmmmm?

how man Glasgow smiles were recorded in la in the last ten years

in my opinion the whole patriotic thing is b.s.

yea so in school you had to stand for the pledge of allegiance.. but that was about it. then all of the sudden... after 9/11 you see the american flag on everyones house.. music artist are coming out with patriotic songs etc etc.

=.= its all rather annoying because in my opinion 9/11 is when we shoulda stopped the patrioticness and started asking "WTF?!?!"

edit:typosss

[edit on 10/10/2008 by lushyslushy]

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by fingapointa

 

Patriotism is about your country, the laws of your country, and your guaranteed rights as a citizen.

Ownership of firearms here is a basic right, guaranteed by our law, backed up by our government.

Our guns are our guaranteed right, backed up by our government, of the people.

That my friend, is called patriotism.

By contrast, Europe is a tired old group of former foes who want a collective tired old approach to civilization. And Europe is about to learn the old lessons the hard way. One hundred armed Muslims could shut down the entire continent. And at that point, a .45 in the hand will beat a carload of rationalism any day of the week.

Let fanatics try that crap here in the US. Especially in the . . . what was suggested???? . . . oh yes. The South. Someone is going to have some very short careers.

I do recollect what a group of Islamic teens did in France a while back, setting cars and such on fire. And no one could stop them because only the police were armed! Just wait until they get serious.

Nope. The world isn't rid of bad guys, and I'll keep mine until that day.

So...by that logic...citizens went out with their own guns and stopped the L.A. riots? It seems to me that right here in good ol' America, they got to do whatever they wanted in the face of armed police, and armed citizens. Owning a gun is not patriotic. Justifying the right to own a gun is. Just having one does not. If you think the OP is that far off, you have not been talking to the nuts that I know, that you can see on this board...stockpiling weapons and hoarding ammo. For what? Who are they planning on using it against? Foreign invaders? Our own police? Seriously, please look into the L.A. riots and tell me why all the armed citizens of CA did no better than the unarmed ones in France?

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman

 

It is apparently much more patriotic to pretend we are better than everyone else and if they are too stupid to realize that, eventually we will kill them into understanding.

Are the PTB at your door telling you to be quiet? no. hey guess what, they wont do that until you start making bombs or viruses or meth, so chill out.

the guy in that video had a fractured background at best.

15 guys sitting in a chinhook approaching near death will speak freely amongst themselves. while i agree with his statements about the lack of truth, i still think he has seen less than .05% of anything that he could make a scientifically articulate statement about. cats on the front line usually know NOTHING about the higher chain of command and their orders.

however he is correct about how it can escalate quite rapidly.

reply to post by Simplynoone

I don't understand your "other reasons" comment... do you have knowledge of some evil republican plan that we don't? Most libs could at least make one up or pull something out of their playbook.

I'm sorry that you feel outnumbered in your state.

I live in the People's Republic of Minnesota where there is no limit to the obscene tax and spend policies of our democratic lawmakers. I also feel outnumbered and would like to leave.

Why don't you try Masachusetts?

reply to post by Simplynoone


I'm a comin' for yer stuff...

LOL!

Seriously though, I agree with ya 110%, stuff is stuff, it's not worth dieing over, so is land, land is just land, it's not worth dieing over.

Also, I own no gun, neither would I ever kill anyone, not even to save my own life.

I have the brains to turn a hostile situation around, plus I believe that if I sacrifice my own life for the TRUTH, then God will work a miracle and things will change, that person's life will change.

It's sorta like the whole terroism thing, it doesn't matter how many bullets you put into to how many terrorists, you can't kill an ideology, the only way to change anyone is to show them a better way, they are the ones who will change.

Violence never solves any problems, it only makes them worse, however if you have a gun, people will think twice about attacking you.

-Lahara

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by skeptic1

 

If no-one else had a gun, why would you need one? Why not take away your right to own one? What's next? Don't take away my right to own Inter continental Ballistic Missiles?

An exaggeration but i'm sure the reasonable amongst you will gt my point.

So what's the difference between patriotism and blind patriotism?

In the end it seem to me that you all follow it till it goes wrong then you claim ou were following 'the other form of patriotism'.

But anyway, what is the deal with a 'war president'?

Firstly I have to assume your from the UK or some place a in Europe. This is a short sighted view that has no real foundation other then fear.

The main problem with your argument is you'll never be able to get rid of guns esp. from the criminals. The law abiding citizens obtains there weapons through legal means while the criminal buys there weapons off the street from there fellow thugs. Ban guns? Watch violent forced entry sky rocket, silly Brit.

Originally posted by MorningStar8741

So...by that logic...citizens went out with their own guns and stopped the L.A. riots? It seems to me that right here in good ol' America, they got to do whatever they wanted in the face of armed police, and armed citizens. Owning a gun is not patriotic. Justifying the right to own a gun is. Just having one does not. If you think the OP is that far off, you have not been talking to the nuts that I know, that you can see on this board...stockpiling weapons and hoarding ammo. For what? Who are they planning on using it against? Foreign invaders? Our own police? Seriously, please look into the L.A. riots and tell me why all the armed citizens of CA did no better than the unarmed ones in France?

The LA Riots happened in the GHETTO. If it had spilled over into the suburbs, there would have been a completely different outcome. Those in the ghetto were just trying to make a point, KILL WHITEY. BTW, should we outlaw bricks? Considering that guy they pulled out of his truck and slammed a brick into his skull on LIVE TV.

If it's not guns, it's knives. Not knive's, then spears and arrows. Not those, it would be clubs. Not clubs, then rocks. Not rocks, then bare hands.

The problem isn't weapons. The problem is humanity's inherant disposition to violence. We have always been this way, and we always will be. With my gun, I at least level the playing field if someone so chooses to 'schedule a game.'