American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

"The difference is how that patriotism is expressed. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, there is no country in the Western world that is as vociferous as America when it comes to patriotism. That is at least partly because there's also no country in the Western world that has a patriot culture like America. There's nowhere that a love for their country is encouraged like America. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, just the way it is. This is possibly because, in a sense, America has an 'invisible Empire' of cultural rather than physical dominance. The last real Empire the Western world had seen was the British Empire and on a fairly regular basis, we're reminded that those days are long over".



Thank you sir for answering a question that I posted long ago in this thread.
Now, not to sound offensive to you or your country, But I see nothing wrong with being "patriotic" (as in being proud of your herritage and having a "love of country"). And it does sadden me that it is no longer encouraged for "englishmen" to be patriotic.. This to me sir, reeks of "political correctness".. I could very well be incorrect on this, but from reading this thread as well as others, this is what comes through..

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by TruthTellist

 

Morningstar doesn't have any weapons. If there are any weapon-like tools in the house, they are nothing more than museum pieces, or keepsakes from her father. Since they aren't used in any manner, and kept hidden away, they are the equivalent of museum curiosities. Only good for collecting dust.

Hmmm, denying ingorance, not spreading known lies.

Please tell me, just how would you know what I own?

reply to post by SideWynder



Amen. Just because everyone in a country is armed does not equate to a country who has a line that they will not permit to be crossed.

Will. To compare Iraq to the US is no comparison at all. They have been subjugated for so long that their moral courage is almost nil. Besides, they much rather kill each other over simple religious differences. And stupid enough to do so.

No, Americans are getting sick of our government's stupidity, and it won't require much more to elicit a serious response from the people. Right now we can't really complain much, as we are the ones who elected these crooked, perverted twits, and keep sending them back for more chaos.

We'll do the ballot box first. To do otherwise until that is taken from us would be treason. But if they ever try to take that . . .

reply to post by dooper


While you are struggling to figure out just how to prove that one, let me go on. You seem to think I am some anti-gun nut with some WWI relics lying around that I despise. I do not know what makes you feel that you know anything about my personal life that I have not revealed but you have grossly overestimated my father's age as well as mine, and I am flattered that you think that I am pretty, but I am not a her or a she.

I have guns, I also have my CCP. I also have no problem challenging anyone to a marksman contest. All I have ever been trying to say is that if you are truly worried about the government taking over or defending yourself from foreign forces, you are way off. Guns are simply not the solution.

If they wanted to take them away, they would have by now. They want you to have yours and feel like you are uniquely American with that right and that it keeps you safe from them. It has already been stated that the gov. has been stripping us of rights for over 30 years. Has one gun done anything to stop that? What about the rights stolen by the patriot act? Where are you gun guys on that? You are not just going to let it happen are you? We have guns!!!!!!

Think about it seriously. What are you and your guns going to do against a military with technology at least 20 years advanced beyond yours? How about teams of armed men with body armor? How long will you be fending them off? I hope you have plenty of ammo. Getting pretty expensive isn't it? What is to stop them from no longer allowing ammo to be manufactured and distributed to the population anymore anyway?

How about the one point all you gun advocates continue to just pretend is not there? Microwave weapons, Bio-weapons, Chem-weapons, and on and on. What are any of the guns you have going to do against this?

These people control our money, our roads, our utilities, our AMMO SUPPLIES! All I have ever tried to point out is that it takes alot more action and attention to keep these things from happening than simply owning a gun. Otherwise, prove me wrong. Show me where your right to own a gun stopped any rights from being taken from us.

Please tell me that you honestly believe that you and your guns will be able to fend off a foreign invading force. Do you really think that any force that could land itself on American streets, past all of our Government controlled defenses, will be vulnerable to anything you have? Either you think that our military sucks or you are superman and need to get your behind over to the middle east pronto and fix this.

Now if you really want to present an intelligent and intellectually honest discussion about anything, you first have to stop pretending that you are psychic or privy to information not available to you.

[edit on 10/18/08 by MorningStar8741]

My dear, let's start over. The tone I've used with you, I'm ashamed of.

First. There are approximately 1,400,000 active duty military of all services with roughly 850,000 reserves.

There are about 24,000,000 veterans.

Of those 24,000,000, certainly ten percent are still combat capable. I do not worry about our military forcing anything down our throats for several very real, very good reasons.

The first is that American forces consist of Americans. The vast majority have families, and would not take kindly to those who may order them to engage American civilians. Not on any level.

Second, there are a number of veterans and even civilians who are armed to the teeth. Could we theoretically meet on the field of battle and prevail? Of course not. But pushed, it would not go their way, either. This is not false bravado. This is based on the fact that motivation determines the greater success. If your heart isn't really involved in what you are doing, or if you really find it distasteful, you will not prevail over even a much smaller force which is well-motivated, and know bone-deep that they are right.

If you think it is difficult to tell Iraqi civilians from Iraqi guerillas, just imagine the task it would require here in the US.

Some of the most advanced military equipment and weapons systems are in the hands of civilian weapons development companies, not the military. In fact the military would love to get their hands on the packages that are currently available from the civilian market.

Even the daunted mini-gun developed by GE, and used by the military for decades has been revised and vastly improved by a small company called Dillon.

Ammunition. There's enough ammunition in the hands of American civilians to fight two second world wars. Personally, I custom load my own rounds, I have 2,000 to 4,000 rounds per weapon, and since I use high-end reloading equipment, each cartridge can be reloaded 8-10 times each. And I have sufficient components to do just that.

I have the very same weapons our military uses, even on the high-end. In fact, the military orders special weapons from the very same outfit I get mine from. It would never be a stand-up gunfight. It would be the worst guerilla war the world has ever seen.

Besides, as I said before. Our military will only do so much before they themselves will refuse their orders or turn a blind eye to certain things. No reason for bloodshed between Americans.

Are you familiar with the manufacture of explosives and toxic gasses? Many are. You'd be surprised how easy they are to manufacture from scratch, and then how much our military leaves laying around. One of my four MOS's in the military was a Special Forces Engineer. One engineer in one day can do more destructive work than any ten infantrymen.

Now, I love my country. I've fought. I've bled. I've killed. And while I can't run the two-mile like I used to, there still isn't any quit in me, and I frequently work my younger guys right into the ground, while taking the lead.

So we have millions of men who have been required to be violent, and do not. We have lots of folks armed to the teeth, and only a small percentage of the criminal element initiate violence.

So, no, we don't have a problem here now, nor in the future. Not with gun owners, not with patriots. You'll note that when everyone is armed in a society, that is quickly a very polite society. The trouble makers and deviants drop faster than burdschitt in a downdraft.

So sleep easy. You have a lot of friends you don't even know.

reply to post by dooper


Wow, that is alot of talk and yet still you fail to address how guns have fared against the patriot act.

You failed to mention how anything you mention protects you against the types of invading forces and weapons I described.

All you really did was say that there are plenty of folks with plenty of rounds that know how the military used to do things. OK!

Try again, see if you can hit any of these key points even a little. So far, your aim sucks.

reply to post by MorningStar8741


Against any intruder, any force, any weapon system, any toxin, any gas, any force, I would use a small scalar generator that is frequency variable.

reply to post by dooper


A very informative post.

I am unfamiliar with the technology and from what I do know, I am not certain of how it could be used for home defense.

Fortunately Patriots have other ways of Protecting their Constitutional Rights and their families lives.

It is strange how the most argumentative anti-gun nut on this thread actually own guns. (Not you dooper - obviously)

And then that person "Blindly" spews anti-gun propaganda and Defames Patriots for maintaining arms....





[edit on 19-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by dooper


What does that have to do with your precious right to bear arms?

reply to post by MorningStar8741


Absolutely nothing. You had asked what could be done to counter advanced military weapons, or some invader.

Two devices are used separately, each on a different frequency. These scalar waves are linear, and thus highly directional. Where the two frequencies cross, this newly created frequency cancels out all transverse EM waves, kinda shorting everything out. To use the correct frequency in one device is too dangerous to the user. Power in each device is seven nine-volt batteries, a pulse capacitor bank, and the maximum range is approximately 200 meters. So far. A weaker application, and the process is a bit slower, as somehow it apparently interferes with the electrical pulse operation of the heart. This weaker process takes about thirty seconds. We suspect that the heart just defibs. Legs give out, disorientation, they lay down, and that's it. Knocks birds right out of the air.

The difference in a living body and a dead body is electricity. Each cell is a small battery. Only tested on a few animals, we note that the bodies even when left in the open fail to decompose. They just dry up. There appears to be a simple immediate absence of life.

We've also been getting interesting results with hydrogen plasma exhibiting what appears to be the Bohren effect, and this actually results in transmutations of elements, and when shielded and directed, will fry any living organism. We really aren't sure of the mechanism. We suspect similar transmutations, but of organic matter.

I wouldn't pay much attention to the fellow that posted behind you, he also believes that Iran is a peaceful nation. It is my sincerest hope that Iran will soon get the nuclear weapons they desire so much.

Anyway, you asked. Microwaves? Nah. These are the ultimate in "microwaves."

And our stuff is primitive.

reply to post by dooper


Well now I am very confused. First of all, you are the person that posted behind me so are you telling me not to trust you? Or do you mean the person that agrees with you that followed your post?

Secondly, if this is all you need to combat any invasion, then what do you need your gun for?

reply to post by SideWynder


Thanks for getting the argument sydewinder, one of the few on here that has!
I started this the thread with an open mind, looking to be informed and/or corrected, however after talking to Dooper who blames gun massacre victims for being killed for not being armed (Dumbasses that shouldn't be able to breed) and Truthtellist that doesn't medicate his psychotic patients so they don't get their gun licences taken away, I really am leaning against guns more than I ever have.

I understand what you're saying about Iraq / America re-will however I seem to think that a country that has been opressed still has a will to fight, possibly more than a country that hasn't been opressed.

People on this thread seem to think that America is unique in terms of a will to fight. I feel that the Iraq / America armed populace analogy is still valid. The argument that Iraq doesn't have the same will is based on speculation alone!

reply to post by MorningStar8741


Wow! Nice one morningstar! Very good point!

If a few batteries and some 'fictional'device is all you need to kill everyone within 200m from your command bunker[sarcasm] then why all the guns and ammo?

You're shooting yourself on the foot Dooper.

What a pile of macho bull!

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by MorningStar8741

 

Against any intruder, any force, any weapon system, any toxin, any gas, any force, I would use a small scalar generator that is frequency variable.

Speaking of which, do you have one already? I mean, if the point is to be prepared and ready for any attack, you do have one of these don't you?

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


"however after talking to Dooper who blames gun massacre victims for being killed for not being armed (Dumbasses that shouldn't be able to breed)"

Please post a quote taken from the post wherein Dooper said the above.

I think you have been making it up in an attempt to detract from the quality of this members contributions.

You have referenced it several times already - each time without the respective quote.

[edit on 19-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by TruthTellist


*Sigh* Your posts are getting really tiresome.

"We've all seen massacres. And each time, the dead dumbasses were unarmed...And that's nature's way of saying, "you shouldn't breed."

Sickening isn't it, that someone could have such contempt for loss of life. Almost showing the same kind of contempt the people that took those lives showed.

Anyway,

There you go, for the last time. Now PLEASE keep to your promise and ignore me like you said you would. Your constant pointless scrabbling to make a point is just causing you embarrassment. Feel free to re-edit your original post to make this look like i've not answered your original question.

Originally posted by dooper

We've all seen massacres. And each time, the dead dumbasses were unarmed. Every single time... And that's nature's way of saying, "you shouldn't breed."

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


Now people will believe you.

You should have posted that quote a few pages ago. It would have helped lend credibility to your claim.

I always quote the portion of the post that I am referencing - unless I'm posting directly below it.

It stops people having to ask me to post the quote - the same way I had to ask you..... It just makes things simpler, and takes up a lot less thread space.

"Feel free to re-edit your original post to make this look like i've not answered your original question"

-The Edit function allows members to edit their posts for up to two hours after they are made. This avoids them having to make additional posts to notify the other members of correction or mistakes.

[edit on 19-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by TruthTellist


People already believed me, only you didn't. If you read the original posts you would have found a link replying to Dooper's post.

Alternatively you could have went back and read it for yourself.

Out of interest, now you have found it to be a valid source and not fabricated to discredit the poster (Dooper), what is your opinion on that statement as a proponent of the moral and responsible ownership of a firearm? Did you find his comments helpful? Can you now understand why I was angered? Do you feel people with this attitude help your cause?

Re- editing posts, the function is only meant for correcting typos, if you need to add additional info you should do it in another post, or at least state the reason for edit at the bottom

i..e EDIT - to correct typo
or EDIT - Add additional info "info in quotes"
It keeps everything clear.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


"Do you feel people with this attitude help your cause?"

What "cause' would that be? Be specific.

"Can you now understand why I was angered?"

No. No one should get that upset over sarcasm.

"Did you find his comments helpful?"

Yes.